update on the Southern train bike ban



M

MartinM

Guest
One of my co- travellers had the following e-mail back when he asked
what constituted a folding bike;

Dear Mr H,

Thank you for your web comment.

I have two makes of folding cycle that may give you some idea of what
will
be allowed on peak services on Southern from 16 January. These makes
are
Brompton and Dahon.

I hope this is of some help.

Regards

David Cotterell
Southern Customer Services

but does he know that Dahon make a 26" wheel folder?
 
MartinM wrote:

> but does he know that Dahon make a 26" wheel folder?

Why tell him now, when you can take the bike and a copy of the letter?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
> MartinM wrote:
>
> > but does he know that Dahon make a 26" wheel folder?
>
> Why tell him now, when you can take the bike and a copy of the letter?

indeed; it however leaves me in the manure with a Giant (which is
smaller than many Dahons) but who would go and buy a 26" folder in view
of this?
When I commuted on the train into Paddington a lady was not allowed on
the train as her (not very foldable) bike was not in a bag; the next
day, same bike in bin-liner; hey presto! - allowed on.
 
MartinM wrote:
> but does he know that Dahon make a 26" wheel folder?

I doubt it. Considering how well the policy has been thought through,
it's unlikely he knows the first thing about folding bikes, or indeed
any other kind of bike.

I've put off getting a folder because my needs haven't really justified
it so far, but there's a possibility that might change, so it's now
back on the agenda. I had been thinking of getting a Brompton, but I'm
now leaning more towards an Airnimal, maybe a Chameleon - /if/ I could
afford it. What are they - 20" wheels?

I'm sure I could get away with it, even if it isn't on their approved
list, but I don't fancy having to lug the case around with me on my
commute. Bin bag sounds like a good idea - tucks nicely in a jersey
pocket and also useful as emergency rainwear, if conditions get really
bad.

d.
 
davek wrote:
>
> I've put off getting a folder because my needs haven't really justified
> it so far, but there's a possibility that might change, so it's now
> back on the agenda. I had been thinking of getting a Brompton, but I'm
> now leaning more towards an Airnimal, maybe a Chameleon - /if/ I could
> afford it. What are they - 20" wheels?
>

If its for commuting using a train or bus get the Brompton. If its for
riding with occassional folding get the Airnimal or Bike Friday. The
latter are fine on an uncrowded train where you don't have to fold and
stow it but for busy train commuting the B is the only real answer.
They are also significantly more clumsy and bulky to carry folded than
the Brompton.


--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 
davek wrote:
> MartinM wrote:
> > but does he know that Dahon make a 26" wheel folder?
>
> I doubt it. Considering how well the policy has been thought through,
> it's unlikely he knows the first thing about folding bikes, or indeed
> any other kind of bike.

well I've already heard of one guard saying he's not going to enforce
the ban as he's a cyclist himself


> I've put off getting a folder because my needs haven't really justified
> it so far, but there's a possibility that might change, so it's now
> back on the agenda. I had been thinking of getting a Brompton, but I'm
> now leaning more towards an Airnimal, maybe a Chameleon - /if/ I could
> afford it. What are they - 20" wheels?

yes I think; but would you really want to subject such a work of art
to the rigmaroles of commuting?

what are you doing over on SET since the ban?
 
in message <[email protected]>,
MartinM ('[email protected]') wrote:

> indeed; it however leaves me in the manure with a Giant (which is
> smaller than many Dahons) but who would go and buy a 26" folder in view
> of this?

Stick some tape over the 'Giant' logos and then either get some Dahon
transfers or go to your local signwriting firm and get them to vinyl-cut
the lettering 'DAHON' for you. Stick result on your Giant. Get on train.

Let's face it, any guard or ticket inspector sufficiently clued up to
tell the difference between a Giant and a badge-engineered 'DAHON' is
not going to be hostile to cyclists.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn.
;; Jim Morrison
 
MartinM wrote:
> what are you doing over on SET since the ban?

I'm only commuting intermittently, but when I do I'm leaving the bike
at home at the moment - not because of the ban, but various other
practical reasons (eg lots of parties to attend with much free booze
involved). Using buses and tubes adds at least an hour to my journey,
which is a real nuisance.

As for the bike ban, I've not seen much evidence of it being enforced
yet.

d.
 
davek wrote:
>
> As for the bike ban, I've not seen much evidence of it being enforced
> yet.
>

It depends on your flexibility of travel. I was on Oxford Station on
Wednesday when the staff were telling a lad he couldn't take his bike on
the train to London. His protest was that he had travelled before with
his bike seven times without a problem. So if you can accept that you
might get stopped occasionally ignoring enforcement is fine.


--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 
Tony Raven wrote:
> If its for commuting using a train or bus get the Brompton.

It would be for taking on the train, but with several miles at either
end of the journey (about 18 miles if I get off at Bromley South
instead of Victoria, which I usually do if I get an early enough train
- a good ride before work beats going to the gym any day). So I want
something reasonably sporty. I know the Brompton is perfectly nippy
enough for most applications but I quite fancy something with a proper
heads-down riding position, which is why I'm keen on the Airnimal.

Of course, I could just put drop handlebars on a Brompton, I suppose.
Would that work?

If its for
> riding with occassional folding get the Airnimal or Bike Friday. The
> latter are fine on an uncrowded train where you don't have to fold and
> stow it but for busy train commuting the B is the only real answer.

Well, the funny thing is, the route I use rarely gets that crowded -
especially if you sit near the back of the train and eschew the
pleasure of joining in the game of sardines near the front (the only
purpose of which seems to be getting through the ticket barrier a few
seconds quicker, which is just plain madness).

This lack of an actual problem is one of the reasons I so resent the
ban, though I know certain other routes on SE trains have a very real
overcrowding problem. But in any case, what it means in practise for
me, on my route, is that it would be unlikely that I would actually
have to do any folding. Ever.

> They are also significantly more clumsy and bulky to carry folded than
> the Brompton.

That's worth knowing. Tbh, I hadn't got as far as actually testing one
out yet, but I would certainly have a closer look to find out about
such practicalities before parting with any cash.

The Airnimal website claims 30 seconds for a fold, which admittedly is
about double what Brompton claim but it doesn't sound like it would be
too much of a problem. As for ease of carrying, if it's only on and off
the train, would it really be such a hardship? I'll have to look into
it more closely - although at the moment it remains a hypothetical
concern, and will stay so until I get a "proper" job.

d.
 
davek wrote:
> Tony Raven wrote:
>
>> If its for
>> riding with occassional folding get the Airnimal or Bike Friday. The
>> latter are fine on an uncrowded train where you don't have to fold
>> and stow it but for busy train commuting the B is the only real
>> answer.
>
> ........... But in any case, what it means in practise for
> me, on my route, is that it would be unlikely that I would actually
> have to do any folding. Ever.
>
>> They [Airnimal/Bike Friday] are also significantly more clumsy and bulky
>> to carry folded
>> than the Brompton.
>
> That's worth knowing. Tbh, I hadn't got as far as actually testing one
> out yet, but I would certainly have a closer look to find out about
> such practicalities before parting with any cash.

I suggest a read of the "folding society" website.
There are a couple of reviews of the Airnimal on there, which I found
useful.

> The Airnimal website claims 30 seconds for a fold, which admittedly is
> about double what Brompton claim but it doesn't sound like it would be
> too much of a problem.

Depends "how folded" you want the Airnimal to become; you've probably
discovered that they fold through several stages. The "quick" fold is
essentially: remove front wheel (now a loose item), kick rear triangle
underneath (rear wheel now nestles in front forks), collapse and fold seat
post. Result is a smaller package and a loose wheel. Whilst lighter than a
Brompton, its considerably more clumsy to carry around. The more compact
folds takes longer and appear to require tools to remove bits and pieces.
If it has mudguards fitted to the front, then the folded Airnimal doesn't
appear to fold as cleanly; the mudguard clashes with the rear-triangle and
wheel.

I've thought about getting an Airnimal (same reason as you - its supposed to
ride like a "proper" bike), and chatted with a few owners. My use wouldn't
include getting onto trains with "commuter time" bike bans.



- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>,
> MartinM ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
> > indeed; it however leaves me in the manure with a Giant (which is
> > smaller than many Dahons) but who would go and buy a 26" folder in view
> > of this?
>
> Stick some tape over the 'Giant' logos and then either get some Dahon
> transfers or go to your local signwriting firm and get them to vinyl-cut
> the lettering 'DAHON' for you. Stick result on your Giant. Get on train.
>
> Let's face it, any guard or ticket inspector sufficiently clued up to
> tell the difference between a Giant and a badge-engineered 'DAHON' is
> not going to be hostile to cyclists.

sorry should have put the ;-) in;
but knowing the jobsworthness of some officials it may well come down
to a name, although I think wheel size is likely to be the clincher
(pun intended). I have to say all the guards are utterly courteous and
accommodating to us reprobate lawbreakers at the moment; even allowing
me time to run down the platform to the bike stowage area when I arrive
5 seconds before door closure mean time.
 
davek wrote:
>
> The Airnimal website claims 30 seconds for a fold, which admittedly is
> about double what Brompton claim but it doesn't sound like it would be
> too much of a problem. As for ease of carrying, if it's only on and off
> the train, would it really be such a hardship? I'll have to look into
> it more closely - although at the moment it remains a hypothetical
> concern, and will stay so until I get a "proper" job.
>

I have a Bike Friday as well as a Brompton and the difference when
folded is dramatic. The BF is really quite cumbersome not only getting
on and off but also finding somewhere on board to store it folded. I
don't think the Airnimal is much different from the plays I had with
one. Given your requirements a Birdy might be a better option - folds
larger than a B but neatly and is better than a B for longer distance
riding.


--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 

> Of course, I could just put drop handlebars on a Brompton, I suppose.
> Would that work?

Recently I tried a Birdy and a Trek folder( Dahon really) at Freewheel
Nottingham.
The Birdy felt dreadful at the front:the suspension dived into corners
and felt squirmy, and the steering even on the straight felt twitchy.I
put this down to my weight(95kg) and length(189cm) bearing in mind the
praise heaped on them by average sized folk.The trek was more positive
at the front, but still a bit twitchy compared to a normal large wheel
bike.I could not imagine either with drops on, nor with a lot of
luggage.I was thinking about getting a folder for touring.I would
really like to know of one that wil do 80mpday with lugggage on
it.There is on the web an account of a lejog on a brommie b&bing, but I
was a bit put off by these.
TerryJ
 
[email protected] wrote:
>
> The Birdy felt dreadful at the front:the suspension dived into corners
> and felt squirmy, and the steering even on the straight felt twitchy.I
> put this down to my weight(95kg) and length(189cm) bearing in mind the
> praise heaped on them by average sized folk.The trek was more positive
> at the front, but still a bit twitchy compared to a normal large wheel
> bike.

Small wheel bikes do feel like that at first but you very quickly get
used to them and then big wheelers feel very sluggish compared. In
traffic the quick steering is a benefit

> I was thinking about getting a folder for touring.I would
> really like to know of one that wil do 80mpday with lugggage on
> it.
>

A Bike Friday or Airnimal will do that easily.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 
[email protected] wrote:

> > Of course, I could just put drop handlebars on a Brompton, I suppose.
> > Would that work?
>
> Recently I tried a Birdy and a Trek folder( Dahon really) at Freewheel
> Nottingham.
> The Birdy felt dreadful at the front:the suspension dived into corners
> and felt squirmy, and the steering even on the straight felt twitchy.I
> put this down to my weight(95kg) and length(189cm) bearing in mind the
> praise heaped on them by average sized folk.

This is what put me off the Birdy when I tested one at Bikefix - it felt
like a pogo stick.
Neither did I like the suspension on the Airnimal, or the fact that when
folding you were left with a wheel to carry as well as the bike.

I plumped for a Bike Friday, and have never regretted it - it has done
more miles than any of my other bikes this year.
For longer rides it handles superbly and has excellent luggage carrying
capability - the same as an ordinary bike. I have done 60 mile rides this
year and camping trips on it.
But it really does need to be bagged to take on to a train and the
resulting package is quite large and difficult. It takes me about 3-4
minutes to bag up.
As others have said, it is not really a commuters bike and I certainly
wouldn't want to be regularly folding it.
That said, since the Spring I have been taking it unreserved and unfolded
2-3 times a week on trains with a reservation only policy. i have never
yet had to fold - but the option is always there if a stroppy guard is
encountered.

For journeys only requiring a short distance at each end the Brommie still
wins hands down.


> The trek was more positive
> at the front, but still a bit twitchy compared to a normal large wheel
> bike.I could not imagine either with drops on, nor with a lot of
> luggage.I was thinking about getting a folder for touring.I would
> really like to know of one that wil do 80mpday with lugggage on
> it.

The Bike Friday is fine for this.

John B
BF No.6666
 
davek wrote On 12/08/05 19:04,:

> I've put off getting a folder because my needs haven't really justified
> it so far, but there's a possibility that might change, so it's now
> back on the agenda. I had been thinking of getting a Brompton, but I'm
> now leaning more towards an Airnimal, maybe a Chameleon - /if/ I could
> afford it. What are they - 20" wheels?

Airnimal use 24" wheels. The Chameleon isn't very compact when folded. I
bought mine because I wanted a bike that was great to ride and could be
folded into a car boot or dismantled and packed into a case. I wouldn't
want to take it on a train (or fit it under an office desk).
 
Nigel Cliffe wrote On 12/08/05 19:58,:

> Depends "how folded" you want the Airnimal to become; you've probably
> discovered that they fold through several stages. The "quick" fold is
> essentially: remove front wheel (now a loose item), kick rear triangle
> underneath (rear wheel now nestles in front forks), collapse and fold seat
> post. Result is a smaller package and a loose wheel.
The guys at Avon Valley taught me to remove the seatpost before folding
the rear triangle and put the seatpost back in the wrong way round and
turned 90 degrees. This gives a stable platform that rests on the saddle.

> Whilst lighter than a
> Brompton, its considerably more clumsy to carry around. The more compact
> folds takes longer and appear to require tools to remove bits and pieces.
> If it has mudguards fitted to the front, then the folded Airnimal doesn't
> appear to fold as cleanly; the mudguard clashes with the rear-triangle and
> wheel.
I bought the modified SKS raceblades which Airnimal sell. I wouldn't
recommend folding with the front mudguard in place to be honest. OTOH if
you remove the mudguard it becomes another loose item to look after.
 
in message <[email protected]>, davek
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Tony Raven wrote:
>> If its for commuting using a train or bus get the Brompton.
>
> It would be for taking on the train, but with several miles at either
> end of the journey (about 18 miles if I get off at Bromley South
> instead of Victoria, which I usually do if I get an early enough train
> - a good ride before work beats going to the gym any day). So I want
> something reasonably sporty. I know the Brompton is perfectly nippy
> enough for most applications but I quite fancy something with a proper
> heads-down riding position, which is why I'm keen on the Airnimal.
>
> Of course, I could just put drop handlebars on a Brompton, I suppose.
> Would that work?

Birdy Speed. Folds nearly as small as a Brompton, allegedly rides much
better. Costs /much/ more.

<URL:http://www.r-m.de/index.pl/bspe_e>
<URL:http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/speed.shtml>

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Anagram: I'm soon broke.
 
Nigel Cliffe wrote:
> I suggest a read of the "folding society" website.
> There are a couple of reviews of the Airnimal on there, which I found
> useful.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely follow it up.

d.
 
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