Truthful "average" speeds

"brian hughes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"sittn' pretty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Those guys on the Tour are pretty slow aren't they. Too bad they

outlawed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bents cause they're gonna have to stay slow. There's really nothing

much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they can do to change their pitiful averages. We've got guys on low

racers

Quoted message said:

that average 30 mph + on their training rides. Hell we've even got guys

that

Quoted message said:

average over 20 mph on their commuter bikes going to work.

You may need to re-calibrate your computer if your average is under 16

mph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or so. You are probably doing better than that and just don't know it.

See

Quoted message said:

thread on roll out method of calibration.

I was actually surprised to learn the average speed at the Tour de France. Since these guys are
the best DF riders in the world and get the aero advantage of riding in pace-lines, I would have
guessed their average

speed

Quoted message said:

would be higher than 23 mph.

Anyway, maybe I calculate my average speed differently than most, plus I'm normally riding in
traffic with plenty of stops and starts. But when I

read

Quoted message said:

through a lot of these average speed claims, I start thinking I must be

the

Quoted message said:

slowest rider around. But when I jump on my bike, I'm usually the guy

doing

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all the passing. I rode a century a few months back. Only 7 riders (all riding in pace lines I
should add) out of about 250 finished ahead of me (pushing my own air all the way) . So maybe I'm
not really as slow I

would

Quoted message said:

look if I posted my average speed for this year next to the guys you know (oh, what the hell. It's
15.9 mph = 2422.2 miles/152 hours 31 min).

Brian Tailwind/V-Rex

I'm slow compared to others in the newsgroup. I'm even slower than those guys on the tour. ;-)
However, I don't let that stop me from wanting people to think of me as being fast. Typically on a
long ride or a century I start at the back of the pack and don't stop to rest (I've got a Ryan and I
can rest on the bike just as well as off the bike). Starting at the back allows me to pass a lot of
people and not get passed by others all that much. Not stopping at rest stops allows me to finish
ahead of a lot of fast people who lollygag around rest stops. Maybe I've been able to use this
strategy to dupe a few people into believing I'm a lot faster than I am, but how can I brag on
something like that?

Oh yeah, another one of my favorite tricks is when I get tired I pick a slow female to ride with and
make small talk while I rest up. When some roadie passes and gives me the eye I can give him my "if
I wasn't with her I'd be smoking your ass right now" look.

But despite it all I try to ride my own ride (and work at not being a smart ass).

skip

brian hughes said:

I was actually surprised to learn the average speed at the Tour de France. Since these guys are
the best DF riders in the world and get the aero advantage of riding in pace-lines, I would have
guessed their average speed would be higher than 23 mph.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Brian Tailwind/V-Rex

Two things to consider - it does not make sense from a strategic standpoint for the riders to go
all-out all the time, especially for 3 weeks of almost continuous riding. The lead riders will not
push the pace unless they think they have a good reason to do so, such a catching a breakaway group.
Also, the Tour de France includes a few hills, and the downhill speeds never make up for the uphill.
Many of the mountain stages don't even have much downhill. Local cat 4 and 5 racers average well
over 23 on their flat training group rides, but are far less fit than the pros. Watching the pros
when they're just cruising on the flat in a peloton can be a little like watching paint dry, only
with commentary. Probably why OLN only covers the last part of each stage.

Dave Lehnen

What Dave Lehnen said. And note also that:

o some fast flat stages in the opening week of the Tour will be covered at 30+ mph for five hours,
and o when the peloton is really standing on it, such as chasing down a break in the last few miles
of a stage, they'll be running at 35+.

In last weekend's race at Hayes, I ran 25.6 mph for 45 minutes. But I couldn't do that for five
hours, still less for five hours every day for three weeks.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Hi Skip: I think a persons ave speed also has alot to do with riding in traffic or not. My average
is not for from yours' 15.6 but that is in suburban traffic. Even with a computor that shuts off
when stopped, you have to slow down at a red light, to either time it to change or come to a stop.
Then it takes a little while to get your speed back up so that will mess up the Ave. If your wout on
the road doing a century or metric or what ever and don't have to slow down to stop it will
naturally go up. Also I ride to eat, that is the reason I ride and to stay in shape but I miss very
few of the Sag stops. Just my opinion.

Bill V-rex

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"brian hughes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"sittn' pretty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Those guys on the Tour are pretty slow aren't they. Too bad they

outlawed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bents cause they're gonna have to stay slow. There's really nothing

much

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they can do to change their pitiful averages. We've got guys on low

racers

Quoted message said:

that average 30 mph + on their training rides. Hell we've even got

guys

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that

Quoted message said:

average over 20 mph on their commuter bikes going to work.

You may need to re-calibrate your computer if your average is under 16

mph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or so. You are probably doing better than that and just don't know

it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

See

Quoted message said:

thread on roll out method of calibration.

I was actually surprised to learn the average speed at the Tour de

France.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since these guys are the best DF riders in the world and get the aero advantage of riding in
pace-lines, I would have guessed their average

speed

Quoted message said:

would be higher than 23 mph.

Anyway, maybe I calculate my average speed differently than most, plus

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

normally riding in traffic with plenty of stops and starts. But when I

read

Quoted message said:

through a lot of these average speed claims, I start thinking I must be

the

Quoted message said:

slowest rider around. But when I jump on my bike, I'm usually the guy

doing

Quoted message said:

all the passing. I rode a century a few months back. Only 7 riders

(all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

riding in pace lines I should add) out of about 250 finished ahead of me (pushing my own air all
the way) . So maybe I'm not really as slow I

would

Quoted message said:

look if I posted my average speed for this year next to the guys you

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(oh, what the hell. It's 15.9 mph = 2422.2 miles/152 hours 31 min).

Brian Tailwind/V-Rex

I'm slow compared to others in the newsgroup. I'm even slower than those guys on the tour. ;-)
However, I don't let that stop me from wanting

people

Quoted message said:

to think of me as being fast. Typically on a long ride or a century I start at the back of the
pack and don't stop to rest (I've got a Ryan and

I

Quoted message said:

can rest on the bike just as well as off the bike). Starting at the back allows me to pass a lot
of people and not get passed by others all that much. Not stopping at rest stops allows me to
finish ahead of a lot of

fast

Quoted message said:

people who lollygag around rest stops. Maybe I've been able to use this strategy to dupe a few
people into believing I'm a lot faster than I am,

but

Quoted message said:

how can I brag on something like that?

Oh yeah, another one of my favorite tricks is when I get tired I pick a

slow

Quoted message said:

female to ride with and make small talk while I rest up. When some roadie passes and gives me the
eye I can give him my "if I wasn't with her I'd be smoking your ass right now" look.

But despite it all I try to ride my own ride (and work at not being a

smart

Quoted message said:

ass).

skip

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

What Dave Lehnen said. And note also that:

o some fast flat stages in the opening week of the Tour will be covered at 30+ mph for five hours,
and o when the peloton is really standing on it, such as chasing down a break in the last few
miles of a stage, they'll be running at 35+.

Absolutely correct. This also illustrates why just looking at average speeds for a whole ride really
doesn't give a true picture of how fast some riders really can be. I, too, am always somewhat amazed
by how much negative reaction, and disbelief, threads about fast riders brings out. There is no
doubt that some post some inflated average speeds but don't we also get the same type of wishful
boasting all the time about some's golf game, fishing stories, etc. Some of this is to be expected
but that doesn't mean it is impossible for all but an elite few to ride at high performance levels.

Quoted message said:

In last weekend's race at Hayes, I ran 25.6 mph for 45 minutes. But I couldn't do that for five
hours, still less for five hours every day for three weeks.

Again, this illustrates how everything has to be taken in perspective. If Dave runs over 25 mph for
45 minutes and then coasts home for an hour, he might end up with an average of 17-18 mph. If he
then said he had a long ride at an 18 mph average, it doesn't really do justice to how fast he
actually rode. In other words, for some riders you can look at the average speeds they post, and
then wonder about how fast they really can ride for some ride segments. I know that most of my long
rides are not done at singular pace and are pretty much like the races the pros ride. Some segments
might be quite fast and others are slower because of varied reasons.

This brings up another question that probably needs some clarification. How fast would be considered
truly fast, and unobtainable, for the majority of those who show the most scepticism. And over how
long of a distance does one need to maintain such speeds? I'm just curious as to what most consider
beyaond the realm of the average rider.

Harry Jiles

All of the techniques calculational, the ideas and so on were once upon a time considered basic
statistics. All these number have names and a bit of study will show their utility.

'Average', that we speak of so casually, is really the mean. The maximum speed is properly called
just that. About all that is needed is an understanding of the standard deviation and a much more
complete description of a rider's performance is available.

Perhaps it is the cyclometer/computer makers and the color-commentators that have done us a
disservice?

"harryo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What Dave Lehnen said. And note also that:

o some fast flat stages in the opening week of the Tour will be covered

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30+ mph for five hours, and o when the peloton is really standing on it, such as chasing down a

break in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the last few miles of a stage, they'll be running at 35+.

Absolutely correct. This also illustrates why just looking at average speeds for a whole ride
really doesn't give a true picture of how fast some riders really can be. I, too, am always
somewhat amazed by how much negative reaction, and disbelief, threads about fast riders brings
out. There is no doubt that some post some inflated average speeds but don't we also get the same
type of wishful boasting all the time about some's golf game, fishing stories, etc. Some of this
is to be expected but that doesn't mean it is impossible for all but an elite few to ride at high
performance levels.

Quoted message said:

In last weekend's race at Hayes, I ran 25.6 mph for 45 minutes. But I couldn't do that for five
hours, still less for five hours every day for three weeks.

Again, this illustrates how everything has to be taken in perspective. If Dave runs over 25 mph
for 45 minutes and then coasts home for an hour, he might end up with an average of 17-18 mph. If
he then said he had a long ride at an 18 mph average, it doesn't really do justice to how fast he
actually rode. In other words, for some riders you can look at the average speeds they post, and
then wonder about how fast they really can ride for some ride segments. I know that most of my
long rides are not done at singular pace and are pretty much like the races the pros ride. Some
segments might be quite fast and others are slower because of varied reasons.

This brings up another question that probably needs some clarification. How fast would be
considered truly fast, and unobtainable, for the majority of those who show the most scepticism.
And over how long of a distance does one need to maintain such speeds? I'm just curious as to what
most consider beyaond the realm of the average rider.

Harry Jiles

Yea Harry, I hesitated to get into the fray. However, Whenever someone posts an average speed I ask
myself? Over what distance if not given and what kind of terrain? What were the wind conditions? The
pros are the pros and their times over a given distance or stage as in the TDF are a matter of
record. I have been out of the racing scene since the early 80's and other than some major stage
races like the TDF I don't follow it. However, I did and will help out at local races. There was 40
mile TT held here. It was sponsored by a mid atlantic touring/racing club. The course was flat,
unencumbered by traffic, long straight-aways of 10 miles (by straight-aways I meas no real turns)
wind was negligible. There were guys older than me
(53) with average speeds in the mid twenties. These guys were all riding DF's of high quality and
had percent of BF I could only dream of. Most TT results are not posted in average speed, they
are done in HMS. Now are there inflated speed claims on this and other groups DF/bent or
otherwise? Sure! After all it is a forum for all.... the blatantly honest, the outright
bulls**ter, the not so intouch with reality wannabe and every one in between. In the recumbent
world, a small one vs. the DF world, a large one we must deal with the age and fitness
demographics. I know personally many reasonably fast and damm fast competitive DF riders in my
area. They range in age from mid 20's to mid 50's. I know of two reasonably fast recumbent
riders.....Al and I..... 60ish and 53. Its a numbers thing. In four years there has not been a
bent rider that I have met here on the roads of the Eastern Shore that I couldn't slam dunk.
Except for Al and thats a different story. Bragging? No! Fact yes. Can I say that about DF
riders I've met?..Nope! So for all of you nay sayers about recumbent riders being able to ride
fast. I have been called a fast rider. IMO I am a reasonably fast rider. I could be much faster
if I rode more and trained in a manner to increase speed. But that would take TIME and
COMMITMENT. In the eighty's I trained with a Navy Seal or tried to anyway. We called him "Mike
The Bike". Word is that he had to choose between his wife and his bike and he chose his bike.
You never saw him with his wife....You NEVER saw him without his bike. In closing I suggest
that you "speed sensitive nay sayers" come to the Hostel Shoppe sponsored rally in August. I
was there last year. I thought I'd be competitive. At 25 mph with John Schlitter and The Windy
City Riders pulling away from me. It was not even a horse race. This year there will be some
additional bentbenders there on all sorts a steeds and there will be AVERAGE speeds that you
all think are [censored]. AND I will be embarrassed AGAIN. Don't just love it!
--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "harryo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What Dave Lehnen said. And note also that:

o some fast flat stages in the opening week of the Tour will be covered

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30+ mph for five hours, and o when the peloton is really standing on it, such as chasing down a

break in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the last few miles of a stage, they'll be running at 35+.

Absolutely correct. This also illustrates why just looking at average speeds for a whole ride
really doesn't give a true picture of how fast some riders really can be. I, too, am always
somewhat amazed by how much negative reaction, and disbelief, threads about fast riders brings
out. There is no doubt that some post some inflated average speeds but don't we also get the same
type of wishful boasting all the time about some's golf game, fishing stories, etc. Some of this
is to be expected but that doesn't mean it is impossible for all but an elite few to ride at high
performance levels.

Quoted message said:

In last weekend's race at Hayes, I ran 25.6 mph for 45 minutes. But I couldn't do that for five
hours, still less for five hours every day for three weeks.

Again, this illustrates how everything has to be taken in perspective. If Dave runs over 25 mph
for 45 minutes and then coasts home for an hour, he might end up with an average of 17-18 mph. If
he then said he had a long ride at an 18 mph average, it doesn't really do justice to how fast he
actually rode. In other words, for some riders you can look at the average speeds they post, and
then wonder about how fast they really can ride for some ride segments. I know that most of my
long rides are not done at singular pace and are pretty much like the races the pros ride. Some
segments might be quite fast and others are slower because of varied reasons.

This brings up another question that probably needs some clarification. How fast would be
considered truly fast, and unobtainable, for the majority of those who show the most scepticism.
And over how long of a distance does one need to maintain such speeds? I'm just curious as to what
most consider beyaond the realm of the average rider.

Harry Jiles

For the record: I have absolutely no doubt that Jude and Al are seriously fast bike guys. None
whatsoever. Ditto Schlitter, Pinto and a lot of other folks who crop on this NG regularly. Plus,
there is a goodly number of "plenty fast enough" riders like Cletus who accurately report impressive
averages. It's the handful of obvious phonies who make me laugh and also irritate me. This NG is a
great exchange of ideas, information and aspirations. The phonies just muck it up.

--
Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Jude T. McGloin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yea Harry, I hesitated to get into the fray. However, Whenever someone posts

an

Quoted message said:

average speed I ask myself? Over what distance if not given and what kind

of

Quoted message said:

terrain? What were the wind conditions? The pros are the pros and their times over a given
distance or

stage

Quoted message said:

as in the TDF are a matter of record. I have been out of the racing scene since the early 80's and

other

Quoted message said:

than some major stage races like the TDF I don't follow it. However, I did and will help out at
local races. There was 40 mile TT held here. It was sponsored by a mid atlantic touring/racing
club. The course was flat, unencumbered by traffic, long straight-aways of 10 miles (by

straight-aways

Quoted message said:

I meas no real turns) wind was negligible. There were guys older than me
(53) with average speeds in the mid twenties. These guys were all riding DF's of high quality and
had percent of BF I could only dream of. Most TT results are not posted in average speed,
they are done in HMS. Now are there inflated speed claims on this and other groups

DF/bent

Quoted message said:

or otherwise? Sure! After all it is a forum for all.... the blatantly honest, the outright
bulls**ter, the not so intouch with reality wannabe

and

Quoted message said:

every one in between. In the recumbent world, a small one vs. the DF world, a large

one

Quoted message said:

we must deal with the age and fitness demographics. I know personally many reasonably fast and
damm fast competitive DF riders in my area. They range in age from mid 20's to mid 50's. I know of
two reasonably fast recumbent riders.....Al and I..... 60ish and 53. Its a numbers thing. In four
years there has not been a bent rider that I have met here on the roads of the Eastern Shore that
I couldn't slam dunk. Except for Al and thats a

different

Quoted message said:

story. Bragging? No! Fact yes. Can I say that about DF riders I've met?..Nope! So for all of you
nay sayers about recumbent riders being able to ride fast. I have been called a fast rider. IMO I
am a reasonably fast rider. I could be much faster if I rode more and trained in a manner to
increase speed. But that would take TIME and COMMITMENT. In the eighty's I trained with a Navy
Seal or tried to anyway. We called him "Mike The Bike". Word is that he had to choose between his
wife and his bike and he chose his bike. You never saw him with his wife....You NEVER saw him
without his bike. In closing I suggest that you "speed sensitive nay sayers" come

to

Quoted message said:

the Hostel Shoppe sponsored rally in August. I was there last year. I thought I'd be competitive.
At 25 mph with John Schlitter and The Windy

City

Quoted message said:

Riders pulling away from me. It was not even a horse race. This year there will be some additional
bentbenders there on all sorts a steeds and there will be AVERAGE speeds that you all think are
[censored]. AND I will be embarrassed AGAIN. Don't just love it!
--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "harryo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What Dave Lehnen said. And note also that:

o some fast flat stages in the opening week of the Tour will be

covered

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30+ mph for five hours, and o when the peloton is really standing on it, such as chasing
down a

break in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the last few miles of a stage, they'll be running at 35+.

Absolutely correct. This also illustrates why just looking at average speeds for a whole ride
really doesn't give a true picture of how fast some riders really can be. I, too, am always
somewhat amazed by how much negative reaction, and disbelief, threads about fast riders brings
out. There is no doubt that some post some inflated average speeds but don't we also get the
same type of wishful boasting all the time about some's golf game, fishing stories, etc. Some of
this is to be expected but that doesn't mean it is impossible for all but an elite few to ride
at high performance levels.

Quoted message said:

In last weekend's race at Hayes, I ran 25.6 mph for 45 minutes. But I couldn't do that for
five hours, still less for five hours every day

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

three weeks.

Again, this illustrates how everything has to be taken in perspective. If Dave runs over 25 mph
for 45 minutes and then coasts home for an hour, he might end up with an average of 17-18 mph.
If he then said he had a long ride at an 18 mph average, it doesn't really do justice to how
fast he actually rode. In other words, for some riders you can look at the average speeds they
post, and then wonder about how fast they really can ride for some ride segments. I know that
most of my long rides are not done at singular pace and are pretty much like the races the pros
ride. Some segments might be quite fast and others are slower because of varied reasons.

This brings up another question that probably needs some clarification. How fast would be
considered truly fast, and unobtainable, for the majority of those who show the most scepticism.
And over how long of a distance does one need to maintain such speeds? I'm just curious as to
what most consider beyaond the realm of the average rider.

Harry Jiles

"Jude T. McGloin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

So for all of you nay sayers about recumbent riders being able to ride fast. I have been
called a fast rider. IMO I am a reasonably fast rider. I could be much faster if I rode
more and trained in a manner to increase speed. But that would take TIME and COMMITMENT.

I know what you mean. I would call myself a reasonably fast rider, too, and I am one of the fastest
recumbent riders in our area, at least on the rides in which I have participated. I am faster than
most of the DF racer wanabees here but the true racers are certainly much faster than me. I also
have no illusions that there are some serious bent riders, such as those you mentioned, that are
much faster than I. Like you, I know I could ride even faster if I did some serious training but I
also do not put in the time and commitment to do so. I do spend some time and effort on training for
general fitness, which is not really biking specific, yet, my overall fitness is probably what
allows me to ride as fast as I do. I am also over 50 years old and carrying 16-17% body fat.

All this makes it very easy for me to accept that anyone with good fitness, willing to make a
reasonable and realistic effort at some biking specific training and riding a performance bent can
ride a t speeds that are considered fast by anyones standards.

Harry Jiles

"Robert Siegel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

For the record: I have absolutely no doubt that Jude and Al are seriously fast bike guys. None
whatsoever. Ditto Schlitter, Pinto and a lot of other folks who crop on this NG regularly. Plus,
there is a goodly number of "plenty fast enough" riders like Cletus who accurately report
impressive averages. It's the handful of obvious phonies who make me laugh and also irritate me.
This NG is a great exchange of ideas, information and aspirations. The phonies just muck it up.

As I said before, there is no question that some speed claims are bogus. I guess I just ignore those
i suspect are false and don't think twice of them. Again, as I said before, i think this is to be
expected on a public forum, where everyone is pretty much anonymous, except to those who actually
know them.

I guess the thing that irritates me is that whenever any thread about recumbent riding speed comes
up, there always seems to be an attitide of "OK, there are some fast riders, but they are a small
minority and it is unrealistic to think that the majority of bent riders could be anyway near as
fast, even if they wanted!" I just don't accept this.

As I said im my response to Jude, earlier in this thread, I consider myself reasonably fast but
certainly don't think i am as fast as other fast bent riders and i know i could be even faster if
I committed to it at a higher level. Yet, I only started riding again, 3 years ago, after a 25
year absence. I will be 51 in a couple of months and am a fairly large person, by cycling
standards(6'1" & 230 lbs). 3 years ago, I had numerous health problems, and limitations, because I
was grossly obese. I could barely walk, let alone ride a bike. I turned my life around and
regained my health by making a personal committment to do do. A huge part of this committment was
refusing to make excuses.

I do not beleive I am anyone special. I just believe anyone can accomplish more than they might
think if they truly wish to do so and don't use easy excuses like age and physical limitations. This
is not to say that some do not have physical limitations that might prevent them from riding at a
higher level. However, I expect that the majority do not and I know, from personal experience, that
what some think are physical limitations might just be limitations of attitude and motivation.

Harry Jiles

"harryo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What Dave Lehnen said. And note also that:

o some fast flat stages in the opening week of the Tour will be covered

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

30+ mph for five hours, and o when the peloton is really standing on it, such as chasing down a

break in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the last few miles of a stage, they'll be running at 35+.

Absolutely correct. This also illustrates why just looking at average speeds for a whole ride
really doesn't give a true picture of how fast some riders really can be. I, too, am always
somewhat amazed by how much negative reaction, and disbelief, threads about fast riders brings
out. There is no doubt that some post some inflated average speeds but don't we also get the same
type of wishful boasting all the time about some's golf game, fishing stories, etc. Some of this
is to be expected but that doesn't mean it is impossible for all but an elite few to ride at high
performance levels.

Quoted message said:

In last weekend's race at Hayes, I ran 25.6 mph for 45 minutes. But I couldn't do that for five
hours, still less for five hours every day for three weeks.

Again, this illustrates how everything has to be taken in perspective. If Dave runs over 25 mph
for 45 minutes and then coasts home for an hour, he might end up with an average of 17-18 mph. If
he then said he had a long ride at an 18 mph average, it doesn't really do justice to how fast he
actually rode. In other words, for some riders you can look at the average speeds they post, and
then wonder about how fast they really can ride for some ride segments. I know that most of my
long rides are not done at singular pace and are pretty much like the races the pros ride. Some
segments might be quite fast and others are slower because of varied reasons.

After reading through this string, I realize my problem was in different definition of "average".
When I calculated my average speed, I include every single one of my miles (not just my "fast" or
racing miles) and divide by my total ride time for all my rides. Since the bulk of my miles this
year are commuting to/from work (with constant stops/starts/yields and traffic) and my next largest
type of ride is running errands often with the bike loaded (I've even carried a full case of beer
along with the groceries), it's probably not unreasonable that my average speed is significantly
slower than most others. Like everyone else, when I do go out for a unloaded fast and fun ride or a
race, my speed is significantly faster than my "average" speed. Heck I'm racing in a 27 mile road
race in Los Almos in a few weeks, probably all my competitors in my age group will be riding DFs (I
was told I could race my bent as long as I didn't use aero equipment [but isn't a bent aero by
default?]). Obviously my speed during the race will be significantly higher than my average speed
for the year, but I still won't call the speed for the race my average speed.

So it's just a mater of what's meant by your average speed:
1) Average everything (all rides and any type) under all conditions (wind, rain, snow, sleet,
hauling heavy stuff, ...).
2) Calculate your average only during race/fast ride conditions.

For me, I was always calculated it using the first method and thought others were too--so I just
couldn't understand how I could be so much slower on paper, but not in real life (on the road). But
now I believe many use the second method, which makes sense too.

Brian Tailwind/V-Rex

Harry, This year I put myself at the low end of the reasonably fast folks. I have neither base miles
or conditioning miles. I had hoped that this would be a banner year for me both in miles ridden' and
increased speed conditioning. I should be riding right now, but its threatening outside right now. I
hope to ride later in the day. We got ANOTHER inch of rain yesterday. It did however get me time to
put together a CORSA and get a few neglected DF repairs done. My AERO has most of the bells and
whistles that make it a speed "capable" machine. HED3/HED Disk, wheels for climbing and everyday
wheels etc. However, It is still the HP of HPV that provides speed and endurance. What I find
irritating is "Jude you want to ride too fast". As if doing so is a symptom of some dreaded disease
that has species jumped from a lesser primate community. Oooh... "Ebola Marburg", how about.
"Fastbenta Markham" or "Speedbenta English"? :-)
--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "harryo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jude T. McGloin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So for all of you nay sayers about recumbent riders being able to ride fast. I have been
called a fast rider. IMO I am a reasonably fast rider. I could be much faster if I rode
more and trained in a manner to increase speed. But that would take TIME and COMMITMENT.

I know what you mean. I would call myself a reasonably fast rider, too, and I am one of the
fastest recumbent riders in our area, at least on the rides in which I have participated. I am
faster than most of the DF racer wanabees here but the true racers are certainly much faster than
me. I also have no illusions that there are some serious bent riders, such as those you mentioned,
that are much faster than I. Like you, I know I could ride even faster if I did some serious
training but I also do not put in the time and commitment to do so. I do spend some time and
effort on training for general fitness, which is not really biking specific, yet, my overall
fitness is probably what allows me to ride as fast as I do. I am also over 50 years old and
carrying 16-17% body fat.

All this makes it very easy for me to accept that anyone with good fitness, willing to make a
reasonable and realistic effort at some biking specific training and riding a performance bent can
ride a t speeds that are considered fast by anyones standards.

Harry Jiles

"Jude T. McGloin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Harry, This year I put myself at the low end of the reasonably fast folks. I have neither base
miles or conditioning miles. I had hoped that this would be a banner year for me both in miles
ridden' and increased speed conditioning. I should be riding right now, but its threatening
outside right now. I hope to ride later in the day. We got ANOTHER inch of rain yesterday. It did
however get me time to put together a CORSA and get a few neglected DF repairs done. My AERO has
most of the bells and whistles that make it a speed "capable" machine. HED3/HED Disk, wheels for
climbing and everyday wheels etc. However, It is still the HP of HPV that provides speed and
endurance. What I find irritating is "Jude you want to ride too fast". As if doing so is a symptom
of some dreaded disease that has species jumped from a lesser primate community. Oooh... "Ebola
Marburg", how about. "Fastbenta Markham" or "Speedbenta English"? :-)

I know exactly what you mean. I, too, saw a drop in my miles ridden last year because of my
involvement as an Assistant Scoutmaster for our Local Boy Scout troop. My riding is also seasonal
because of the winter weather here and my occupation(farmer). This year I am also building a house
so my total mileage might suffer more. I'm not complaining because I enjoy what I am doing and
contrary to some's opinion, "wanting to ride fast" is not an all consumning obsession. I, too, am
irritated by the same thoughts.

I do admit to some obsession about maintaining my current level of health, which is one of the
reasons I do like to ride fast, when I so choose. But this has nothing to do with wanting to be
faster than the next guy. It is because I have been on the other side of being physically fit, about
as far as you can get, and I refuse to go back to that. I will not allow myself to make any excuses.

Harry Jiles

What Bill said. I don't think the amount of effort I put into my daily commute varies hugely, but
rolling averages vary from 24 to 30 km/h, depending on traffic conditions, luck with red lights, the
weather and whether the England football team have a match on at the same time (the 30 km/h was done
during the England-Brazil match in the 2002 World Cup).

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

"brian hughes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

...So it's just a mater of what's meant by your average speed:
1) Average everything (all rides and any type) under all conditions (wind, rain, snow, sleet,
hauling heavy stuff, ...).
2) Calculate your average only during race/fast ride conditions.

For me, I was always calculated it using the first method and thought others were too--so I just
couldn't understand how I could be so much slower on paper, but not in real life (on the road).
But now I believe many use the second method, which makes sense too.

Ahh, the little light turns on! When I state a speed, it is for that ride, either given as elapsed
or as the computer average. Calculating via your method #1 would be unwieldy and would yield results
that are not representative of what you'd expect to see of me out on a ride. I generally do one or
two rides a week that average 20+ mph, and the rest are more social, taken at between 15 and 17 mph.
I don't worry about average speed on social rides or commutes, so I log the miles (hey, miles is
miles) but not the average for them.

When I commuted regularly, I used my hybrid exclusively. I let the computer accumulate mileage and
average for months at a time, the average usually showed as somewhere around 13.5 mph. But the
hybrid couldn't do much better even on a club ride on the open road. Would your method lump the
hybrid miles with the lowracer miles?

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

So it's just a mater of what's meant by your average speed:
1) Average everything (all rides and any type) under all conditions (wind, rain, snow, sleet,
hauling heavy stuff, ...).
2) Calculate your average only during race/fast ride conditions.

For me, I was always calculated it using the first method and thought others were too--so I just
couldn't understand how I could be so much slower on paper, but not in real life (on the road).
But now I believe many use the second method, which makes sense too.

If I were to average everything, my overall average would be more like 14 mph. If I am going to
report something here, it must be at least noteworthy More importantly, Noteworthy for me. I keep a
daily log of everything. If I thought that would be of interest to the general public I would post
that on my web site. (I do post a chart of my annual/ monthly miles). What you usually see here are
the events that people are proud of. These are the daya and rides when everything went right.

That is why I like to report two numbers: Rolling average (the number reported by the bike computer
when actually underway.) and 'Cruising Speed' (the number I see most often when I look down at my
bike computer while under full power).

"Cruising Speed' for me is between 20 and 23 mph. The average speed I put down most often in my log
is between 16 and 18 mph.

John Schlitter has said that his numbers are simple total miles divided bt total clock time.

So, I have a question, what numbers do you want to see? here is an example:

Last Saturday on my usual 40 mile ride ending with brunch at a local restaurant I managed another
fine ride and my computer was showing another 18+ mph at the 'official' finish. When I got home my
odometer read an additional 20 miles and my average was down to 17.1mph

Now my total clock time (John Schlitter's method) Was a little less than 4.5 hours. This included
stops to regroup and collect stragglers twice in the 40 mile main ride and 50 minutes for brunch at
the restaurant. Using this method my ride was something over 14mph. So which number is significant?
18.2 mph, 17.1 mph or 14.2mph?

Here's what is important to me. Four years ago I would have been happy to see the 14mph for the
first 40 miles on my DF. Two years ago, I would have been able to do the first 40 miles and average
16 mph. I would have gone straight home from brunch and not wanted to do another 20 miles. The only
numbers I keep track of are the 'rolling averages'. I am 4 years older and more closer to 60 than
50. I am a better, stronger rider now than when I was 40. I thank recumbents for that.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
clee.orgdefault.cfmOpen ↗ (Mileage chart)
- Bellaire, TX USA -

"John Foltz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"brian hughes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...So it's just a mater of what's meant by your average speed:
1) Average everything (all rides and any type) under all conditions (wind, rain, snow,
sleet, hauling heavy stuff, ...).
2) Calculate your average only during race/fast ride conditions.

For me, I was always calculated it using the first method and thought

others

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

were too--so I just couldn't understand how I could be so much slower on paper, but not in real
life (on the road). But now I believe many use

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

second method, which makes sense too.

Quoted message said:

When I commuted regularly, I used my hybrid exclusively. I let the computer accumulate mileage and
average for months at a time, the average usually showed as somewhere around 13.5 mph. But the
hybrid couldn't do much better even on a club ride on the open road. Would your method lump the
hybrid miles with the lowracer miles?

Yes and no. I use a shareware program called bike log. It tracks every ride and gives the total
mileage and total riding time (hence the average speed) for the year. So my speed average includes
rides on my RANS Tailwind, RANS V-Rex, a fat-tire Raleigh MTB and an older DF roadbike.

The program allows you to enter by different bikes, so then you can filter it by bikes. So I can
find an average speed for each of my four bikes too. But it still comes down to the same issue: when
you use the program, it calculates the average for all rides, not just the fast rides. I just needed
to understand that when some refer to average speed, they mean an average for a ride, not an average
for the sum of all of them.

Brian

"brian hughes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Yes and no. I use a shareware program called bike log. It tracks every ride and gives the total
mileage and total riding time (hence the average speed) for the year. So my speed average includes
rides on my RANS Tailwind, RANS V-Rex, a fat-tire Raleigh MTB and an older DF roadbike.

Bear with me if it seems like I'm changing the topic...

One of the concepts in training is that your muscles only get stronger when they are resting. For
years the hammers in the club would tell me I would be a lot faster if I didn't ride so hard all the
time. I finally took their advice and now I always follow a hard ride with either an easy one or an
off day - and the long ones are never hard ones. On hard days I ride at 90% or more of my MHR, but
the easy days I keep my pulse down around 115. After the long winter layoff, a rest day ride is
pretty slow. But by the end of the summer, I can do 19 mph with that HR. That means I can go easier
on long rides and still end up going faster than before. So the system seems to work.

Now, if you are trying to improve your average riding speed, it is counter-productive to keep track
of those easy rides - you are encouraging yourself to ride hard all the time, and thus never get the
full benefit of your workouts.

To be a valid snapshot of your riding, you should only keep track of 'like' rides. For me, that's
moderate or harder rides, based on my HR. Recumbents only. I don't do that many centuries, so I
usually throw them in, too. For 'rest' rides or social rides with slower riders, I don't even bother
looking at my computer other than to get the miles ridden. My program graphs average speeds by
month, but only counts rides for which I entered a speed. As might be expected, monthly averages
start out slower in the spring and peak at the end of the summer before drifting back down for
winter. Believe it or not, I find it harder to go slow than to hammer; but still, you're not going
to hear me regalling you with tales of going 12 mph on a donut ride.

bill marsh <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I think a persons ave speed also has alot to do with riding in traffic or not. My average is
: not for from yours' 15.6 but that is in suburban traffic. Even with a computor that shuts
: off when stopped, you have to slow down at a red light, to either time it to change or come
: to a stop. Then it takes a little while to get your speed back up so that will mess up the
: Ave. If your wout on the road doing a century or metric or what ever and don't have to slow
: down to stop it will naturally go up.

I very much agree: a time trial is a way better measure on your speed than your average. I used
to stare at my averages, then I started racing and serious training, and now I almost couldn't
care less :o)

It's still an interesting question where all those wild (ie. wildly inaccurate and overinflated 😉
averages come from. Are you sure you set your computer to miles not kilos? ;-)

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi

harryo <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Again, this illustrates how everything has to be taken in perspective. If Dave runs over 25 mph
: for 45 minutes and then coasts home for an hour, he might end up with an average of 17-18 mph. If
: he then said he had a long ride at an 18 mph average, it doesn't really do justice to how fast he
: actually rode.

Also it's good to remember that some folks like 10 km rides while others like 100 km rides. Might
get reflected in the average speeds :-)

And others like to push as fast as they can while others prefer a leisurely pace...

--
Risto Varanka | helsinki.fihpv.htmlOpen ↗ varis at no spam please iki fi