Training for Century?

In article <[email hidden]>, Frederic Briere

Quoted message said:

whinds said:

If that bar had only 20 grams of carbs it definitely was not a Powerbar. I
think all conventional Power Bars are over 60 grams of carbs by design.

Same

Quoted message said:

thing for Cliff.

No, you're thinking of the actual weight there. Powerbars and Cliff
bars typically have 40-45g grams of carbs -- I think it's actually 43g
for Cliff.

(Yes, my brain is cluttered with useless facts like these.)

Thanks for the input Frederic. Actually I think we are talking about different
legs of the same elephant. 40-45 grams of carbs is what they call "effective"
carbs If you read farther down on the nutrition panel you will see "other
carbs" usually another 25 grams. Actually PowerBar Peanut Butter has one more
but I don't recall if it is the effective carbs or the other carbs number that
is one more. To confuse the issue even more on the lone Cliff bar that I have,
an Apricot, it lists Total Carbs and Other Carbs. Does that mean the total carb
number of 48 gram includes the other carbs of 22 grams or is it plus the other
carbs. If you add the two together to get true total the Cliff Bar would have a
true total of 70 grams. I have seen the explanations about effective carbs is
the total minus certain carbs that are supposed to be harmless. There is
probably a lawyer somewhere telling the manufacturer what and how to list the
various parts to comply with food&drug laws and yet not give a competitive edge
to the competition but it plain confusing to me so most instances I just I
count all the carbs.

In article <[email hidden]>, Frederic Briere

Quoted message said:

whinds said:

If that bar had only 20 grams of carbs it definitely was not a Powerbar. I
think all conventional Power Bars are over 60 grams of carbs by design.

Same

Quoted message said:

thing for Cliff.

No, you're thinking of the actual weight there. Powerbars and Cliff
bars typically have 40-45g grams of carbs -- I think it's actually 43g
for Cliff.

(Yes, my brain is cluttered with useless facts like these.)

Thanks for the input Frederic. Actually I think we are talking about different
legs of the same elephant. 40-45 grams of carbs is what they call "effective"
carbs If you read farther down on the nutrition panel you will see "other
carbs" usually another 25 grams. Actually PowerBar Peanut Butter has one more
but I don't recall if it is the effective carbs or the other carbs number that
is one more. To confuse the issue even more on the lone Cliff bar that I have,
an Apricot, it lists Total Carbs and Other Carbs. Does that mean the total carb
number of 48 gram includes the other carbs of 22 grams or is it plus the other
carbs. If you add the two together to get true total the Cliff Bar would have a
true total of 70 grams. I have seen the explanations about effective carbs is
the total minus certain carbs that are supposed to be harmless. There is
probably a lawyer somewhere telling the manufacturer what and how to list the
various parts to comply with food&drug laws and yet not give a competitive edge
to the competition but it plain confusing to me so most instances I just I
count all the carbs.

the black rose said:

Not all of us, I assure you. Unless you're an invalid, or recovering
from major surgery, you can almost certainly out-ride me.

We were all "off the back" once. But we keep at it, slowly get
stronger, and eventually surprise ourselves with our fitness.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

bob said:

Ken said:

If you're already doing regular 60 mile rides, you should have
adequate fitness for a 100 mile ride over the same sort of terrain
(similar hills, etc.). Obviously, if you're only doing flat rides
and the century is hilly, you should do more hill training.

The main difference between a 60 mile ride and a 100 mile ride is
nutrition. You don't need to eat or drink much on a 60 mile ride.
You will need to refuel and rehydrate regularly to reach 100 miles.
If you're doing an organized century ride, there will probably be
rest stops every hour or two with pleanty of food and water for you.

Being able to do 60 implying the capability of doing 100 is an
interesting statement. Does being able to do 40 imply that I'm fit
enough to do 60?

In June, I did a 50-mile charity ride on the back of several weeks
of riding, the longest ride among those rides having been 20 miles. I
had no problems, and felt good and strong when I finished. Pacing
yourself is key.

Two experienced riders I met along the way said that a good rule
of thumb is that you max out at three times as far as your longest
training ride, given similar terrain. Seemed reasonable.

Quoted message said:

I started riding about 2 months ago after not riding for 10 years.
My longest ride was yesterday - 40 miles. I'm planning on doing an
organized metric century this weekend and I have to say I'm a little
nervous. There was no way I could have riden another 22 miles after
I got home from the 40.

You should have no trouble. Just spin easy the whole way, take
plenty of fluids, eat something at one of the rest stops, and you'll
get there. Don't worry about many riders passing you in the
beginning. You'll pass a lot of them before the end.

OTOH, if you try to hang with them, you'll be miserable before the
end of the ride. Just let them go.

--
Chris BeHanna
Software Engineer (Remove "allspammersmustdie" before responding.)
[email hidden]
I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Pat wrote:
||| You have to sneak up on those people Pat. One of the reasons I use
||| a mirror is when I see someone coming up behind me I let them get
||| about 20 yards and then I began to slowly increase the speed until
||| they begin to drop back then I ease off until the come back to
||| within 20 feet. heh,heh. Of course some are so obviously faster
||| than me I can only let them whip by and sigh. It feels so good when
||| you come up behind someone near your ability and you creep up past,
||| maybe you back off a notch to keep them going at their max for a
||| tad longer. When they blow up you just innocently glide on by. You
||| have to pick your battles.
||
|| Um, you are giving me ideas! I like it!

So you guys are saying that "little dude"played me, right?

whinds said:

legs of the same elephant. 40-45 grams of carbs is what they call "effective"
carbs If you read farther down on the nutrition panel you will see "other
carbs" usually another 25 grams. Actually PowerBar Peanut Butter has one more

According to some Googling, effective carbs are an attempt to reflect
more closely the effect of carbs on blood sugar levels. For example,
dietary fiber is technically a carbohydrate, but is not digested by the
body, so it shouldn't really "count". Such carbs are therefore labeled
as non-effective, and withdrawn from the total.

There's some controversy on the Atkins front about which carbs are truly
not effective, but for you and me, I guess substracting the fiber amount
is good enough. (I assume you wouldn't eat plain energy bars if you
were on Atkins.)

Quoted message said:

is one more. To confuse the issue even more on the lone Cliff bar that I have,
an Apricot, it lists Total Carbs and Other Carbs. Does that mean the total carb
number of 48 gram includes the other carbs of 22 grams or is it plus the other

(Damn, I wish MEC started selling more flavors...)

Here's the breakdown of an apricot Clif bar, taken from clifbar.com:

- Total carbs: 48g
- Dietary fiber: 5g
- Sugars: 21g
- Other carbs: 22g

The effective carbs amount would therefore be 43g (21+22).

The amount of simple/complex or low-GI/high-GI carbs is left as an
exercise to the reader.

--
Frederic Briere <*> [email hidden]

=> <[email hidden]> IS NO MORE: <http://www.abacomsucks.com> <=

Thanks for the comments and advice. I did the 63 mile ride yesterday
and I'm here today to write about it!

The last 5 miles were a killer. I just wanted it to end.

Other than that, the worst was right after lunch. My legs didn't want
to work and each stroke burned my thighs. Fortunately the burning went
away after a few miles. I think the mistake I made was to sit down.
Next time I do this I'm going to try eating standing up and then
stretching.

Terry Morse said:

the black rose said:

Not all of us, I assure you. Unless you're an invalid, or recovering
from major surgery, you can almost certainly out-ride me.

We were all "off the back" once. But we keep at it, slowly get
stronger, and eventually surprise ourselves with our fitness.

There's a limit to how much I can catch up. I have impaired gas
exchange values. My heart is healthy so it's compensating quite a bit,
but there's a limit to that too.

I can probably do more than my doc says I can, though (I think they base
their predictions on worst-case scenarios!).

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

Quoted message said:

Other than that, the worst was right after lunch. My legs didn't want
to work and each stroke burned my thighs. Fortunately the burning went
away after a few miles.

We call those "lunch legs". We all get it. After eating, blood is
diverted to digestion, leaving less for leg muscles. Your aerobic
system also takes a while to ramp up after rest, so your legs are
starved of blood flow, which causes the burn.

After a lunch break, try to start out easy until you're warmed up
again. Also, try not to eat too much at the lunch break.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

"whinds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Claire

Petersky said:

OK, how about the statement, "if you can do at least 15 mph over 50 miles
comfortably, you can complete a double century"? Does that make you feel
better?

I know that for me, I had never ridden more than 60ish miles before I

took

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on the STP, which I did the first time as a back-to-back century (200

miles

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over two days). I remember sitting at the rest stop in Yelm, at about

mile

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

65, announcing to the general throng that this was the most I had ever
ridden in a day, and then quite a few other people piping up and saying

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

same thing, and we all gave each other high fives.

Claire, does this count as a double century? Most doubles I know about

means

Quoted message said:

200 miles in one day.

In the statement, "if you can do at least 15 mph over 50 miles comfortably,
you can complete a double century", the people making this claim mean 200
miles in one day.

In the paragraph above where I described my first STP, I was careful to
describe it as a back-to-back century, as opposed to a double. I will
confess that once in this newsgroup I did describe doing a back-to-back
century as a double -- this was in error. I will also note that I have done
the STP both as a back-to-back and as a double century. Sample pictures may
be found here: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/, with STP 2002 being a
double, and STP 2004 a back-to-back. I've done this ride now five times.

Many people proport that it is easier to do it as a double, as you don't
have to get back on the bike in the morning Me, after completing it as a
double, I didn't know if I wanted to cry or throw up when I went over the
finish line. Doing it over two days, even the first time, on an old mountain
bike, hasn't been as hard. YMMV.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Maybe a
few quotes will satisfy:

Thanks. This is what I was looking for on the honey bucket site.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Terry Morse wrote:
:: [email hidden] wrote:
::
::: Other than that, the worst was right after lunch. My legs didn't
::: want to work and each stroke burned my thighs. Fortunately the
::: burning went away after a few miles.
::
:: We call those "lunch legs". We all get it. After eating, blood is
:: diverted to digestion, leaving less for leg muscles. Your aerobic
:: system also takes a while to ramp up after rest, so your legs are
:: starved of blood flow, which causes the burn.
::
:: After a lunch break, try to start out easy until you're warmed up
:: again. Also, try not to eat too much at the lunch break.

I say don't eat lunck period. Just take in small amounts of food along the
way - at regular intevals. Lunch would break up the continuity of the ride,
IMO.

[email hidden] wrote:
:: Thanks for the comments and advice. I did the 63 mile ride yesterday
:: and I'm here today to write about it!

Great news. WTG.

::
:: The last 5 miles were a killer. I just wanted it to end.
::

Yeah, it gets better, though.

:: Other than that, the worst was right after lunch. My legs didn't want
:: to work and each stroke burned my thighs. Fortunately the burning
:: went away after a few miles. I think the mistake I made was to sit
:: down. Next time I do this I'm going to try eating standing up and
:: then stretching.

I don't like to stop for longer than 5 to 10 minutes. And then I don't sit,
I stand and stretch and maybe rub my feet a bit. Just eat several bits of
food while standing around talking.

whinds wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> writes:
::
::: that interesting....here in SC, I've only seen one person wearing a
::: hydro pack on a charity ride. Everyone else is using water
::: bottles, with rest stops every 15 miles. maybe I'll get the
::: hyrdapack out....
::
:: SC humidity pretty high, right?

Yeah, but this year has been cooler than any I can remember in the recent
past. I keep waiting for the 98 degree day, but it hasn't come so far.

:: No need for the packs on a charity
:: ride if it is well supported.

Yes, that seems to be the case and the reason that people don't carry them.

I have two hydrapacks, a small 50oz
:: one and a 100 oz Camelbak Lobo. I use the small one most, for
:: training rides along with water bottles. I use the bottles mostly
:: for diluted Gatorade and protein mixes. I use the Camelbak on
:: unsupported long rides and carry pre-measured packets of Gatorade
:: and Whey or Soy protein powders. One thing about carrying only the
:: water bottles, you stop about once an hour, walk around and stretch.
:: That is not a bad thing.

Right. I'll probably take pre-measured packs of gatorade this weekend....I
think at the rest stops here they don't use enough mix to get something
beyond water.

whinds wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> writes:
::
::: that interesting....here in SC, I've only seen one person wearing a
::: hydro pack on a charity ride. Everyone else is using water
::: bottles, with rest stops every 15 miles. maybe I'll get the
::: hyrdapack out....
::
:: SC humidity pretty high, right?

Yeah, but this year has been cooler than any I can remember in the recent
past. I keep waiting for the 98 degree day, but it hasn't come so far.

:: No need for the packs on a charity
:: ride if it is well supported.

Yes, that seems to be the case and the reason that people don't carry them.

I have two hydrapacks, a small 50oz
:: one and a 100 oz Camelbak Lobo. I use the small one most, for
:: training rides along with water bottles. I use the bottles mostly
:: for diluted Gatorade and protein mixes. I use the Camelbak on
:: unsupported long rides and carry pre-measured packets of Gatorade
:: and Whey or Soy protein powders. One thing about carrying only the
:: water bottles, you stop about once an hour, walk around and stretch.
:: That is not a bad thing.

Right. I'll probably take pre-measured packs of gatorade this weekend....I
think at the rest stops here they don't use enough mix to get something
beyond water.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pat wrote:
||| You have to sneak up on those people Pat. One of the reasons I use
||| a mirror is when I see someone coming up behind me I let them get
||| about 20 yards and then I began to slowly increase the speed until
||| they begin to drop back then I ease off until the come back to
||| within 20 feet. heh,heh. Of course some are so obviously faster
||| than me I can only let them whip by and sigh. It feels so good when
||| you come up behind someone near your ability and you creep up past,
||| maybe you back off a notch to keep them going at their max for a
||| tad longer. When they blow up you just innocently glide on by. You
||| have to pick your battles.
||
|| Um, you are giving me ideas! I like it!

So you guys are saying that "little dude"played me, right?

Oh, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. He was probably dreaming of
being in the Giro or the Tour de France and you were just some kind of
reference point. I doubt if he was playing with you.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Also, try not to eat too much at the lunch break.

Yeah, that was another mistake. The sub sandwich felt like lead in my
stomach for about an hour.

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do pre-hydrate by drinking 2 or 3 cups of coffee in the morning
(which makes my heart skip sometimes at 160 and over), drink about 12

Oz.

Quoted message said:

of Orange juice, and drink 4 to 6 eggs in the fuid form. If I was

really

Quoted message said:

fanatic I would stick them in the blender and drink the shells for

Calcium.

Quoted message said:

Why do you drink a lot of strong coffee as a means of hydrating?

Doesn't the strong diuretic effect of strong coffee do the opposite?

I read recently that there is NO diuretic effect of coffee or tea (other
than what might be expected simply from having additional liquid in your
body), that this diuretic belief (that is, that coffee and tea somehow
magically increase urine production out of proportion to their volume)
was
the result of a single study done years ago and people just took it as
the
truth---whereas later studies have not shown a pronounced diuretic
effect at
all. But, the "gospel" of the diuretic effect still lingers on.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/02/11/water_salt040211

"The belief that beer or coffee draw fluid from the body is mostly a
myth,
according to University of Alberta physiology Prof. Susan
Jacobs-Kaufman."
"It has very, very little if any diuretic effect," said Jacobs-Kaufman.
"Overall, you're still gaining fluid for it to go back out of the kidney
ultimately."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11583104&dopt=Abstract

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/19/5/591

Pat in TX

I take coffee on my rides with me. For coffee, especially as a drinker, I
think it's true that it's not a diuretic. For beer, though, I wonder. I
pee an incredible amount when drinking beer. It seems as if I can drink
two beers and pee out 10, but maybe that's my imagination.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

In article <[email hidden]>, "Claire

Petersky said:

In the paragraph above where I described my first STP, I was careful to
describe it as a back-to-back century, as opposed to a double. I will
confess that once in this newsgroup I did describe doing a back-to-back
century as a double -- this was in error. I will also note that I have done
the STP both as a back-to-back and as a double century. Sample pictures may
be found here: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/, with STP 2002 being a
double, and STP 2004 a back-to-back. I've done this ride now five times.

Thanks for the links Claire. Great Photos. How long is the Sammamish Trail?
Looks nice. Either ride is an achievement. And I wouldn't be surprised if a
sponser didn't call a two day ride a double, unaware of ultra rides. There is
at least one event here in California, I think put on by the LA Wheelmen that
includes a single, double, triple, and quad century non-stop. Of course, I
think the quad runs overnight. And there is also the California Triple Crown,
where you don't qualify for the jersey unless you have done 3 sanctioned
doubles. If interested might also want to check into the Ultra Marathon Cycling
Association.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the comments and advice. I did the 63 mile ride yesterday
and I'm here today to write about it!

The last 5 miles were a killer. I just wanted it to end.

Other than that, the worst was right after lunch. My legs didn't want
to work and each stroke burned my thighs. Fortunately the burning went
away after a few miles. I think the mistake I made was to sit down.
Next time I do this I'm going to try eating standing up and then
stretching.

I've done support for rides where some participants never sit down until the
end. Except on the saddle of course. One guy in the last double set a timer on
his watch, 2 minutes for a stop. Walked down the line, grabbed what he wanted
and didn't eat anything until he was back on the bike.