Training for a Gran Fondo

[jpwkeeper]

I'm planning on signing up for the Garrett County Gran Fondo. I only have 11 months to prepare . I'm aiming for the 44 mile distance that contains 4,800 feet of climbing.

Stats on me:

Age: 42
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 230
Fitness: Low
Bike: Hybrid purchased from Dicks. (Diamondback XL)

Current Training: I've been riding for 1 year now, but I primarily ride at lunch so my rides range from 40-50 minutes in length 3-4 times per week or less if lunchtime obligations intrude (and they seem to do that a lot). A hard ride for me is 15Mph over rolling terrain for 11.6 miles. I've been told if I was on a road bike that 15Mph number might be significantly higher, but I realize that is up for debate. I've only taken a few rides longer than an hour, the longest of which was just shy of 18 miles.

So I'm signing up for a 44 mile ride...In the Mountains. Scary, but I've got 11 months to get ready. My goal is to finish. My secondary goal is to finish without having to push my bike up the big hills.

My one ace-in-the-hole with this bike is that it has a granny gear. I can spin at 90RPMs and only go 6Mph in this gear. Is that enough?
My big drawback is a bad lower back. Generally I've found that getting out of the saddle is not a good thing for it. This could prove to be an issue.

I know I need to start incorporating longer rides. I'm planning on trying to stay to the 10% rule for extending distance. I think I might be able to manage a longer ride every other week on average, but family life makes it hard.

So my questions would be:

* Other than making my long ride of the week longer, what else should I focus on?
* I don't live near mountains. How far should I be able to ride in one shot on rolling terrain to have a realistic chance of finishing a 44 mile mountain ride?
* What am I not considering in this venture?

Thank you for your support.

 

[smaryka]

I'm sure other people will chime in with more relevant info but my one bit of advice would be to lose weight if you can. If you can get down to 200lbs you'll see a huge difference in your ability to get up hills. You will climb faster and therefore spend less time climbing in the gran fondo, therefore conserving energy.

Secondly, see if you can try a road bike -- it will also go a lot faster than a hybrid (skinny tires, better position for aerodynamics, etc.) They come with triples too if you want.

 

[gudujarlson]

I suggest focusing on eating a healthly diet while gradually increasing the volume and intensity of your rides. Consistency might be the most important thing to maintain in your training. You might also invest in a heart rate monitor and bike computer to help monitor your training; but it is not a necessity. Investing in a lighter bike will make the ride easier but it won't help you get into better shape, so it depends on your goals.

 

[jpwkeeper]

Thanks for the replies.

@smaryka - Yes, I posted my weight because I do need to get it down. 200 might be a bit far fetched, though, but I'm certainly going to try. 30 pounds in 11 months...so about a pound a week with allowances for the holidays. However, given I've been riding for a year and haven't lost 1 pound to date...It might be hard. How much faster would you say a road bike would be in this circumstance?

@gudujarlson - I do ride with a HRM and computer and log all of my rides to The Daily Mile (I'm jpwkeeper there too).

The one question on my mind, though, is what my training target before the Fondo should be. So with 4 weeks to go I should be riding X miles on my long ride (remember, rolling vs. mountains), what is the value of X? This will help me decide come January when registration starts if the 44 mile is too big of a stretch and I should go with the 25 instead (much less climbing as well as shorter).

 

[gudujarlson]

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper .

Thanks for the replies.

@smaryka - Yes, I posted my weight because I do need to get it down. 200 might be a bit far fetched, though, but I'm certainly going to try. 30 pounds in 11 months...so about a pound a week with allowances for the holidays. However, given I've been riding for a year and haven't lost 1 pound to date...It might be hard. How much faster would you say a road bike would be in this circumstance?

@gudujarlson - I do ride with a HRM and computer and log all of my rides to The Daily Mile (I'm jpwkeeper there too).

The one question on my mind, though, is what my training target before the Fondo should be. So with 4 weeks to go I should be riding X miles on my long ride (remember, rolling vs. mountains), what is the value of X? This will help me decide come January when registration starts if the 44 mile is too big of a stretch and I should go with the 25 instead (much less climbing as well as shorter).

I have come to the conclusion that exercise does not help much with weight loss. The more I exercise, the more I eat. I think the key to weight control is controlling what I eat. I try to eat more fruits and vegtables and less of everything else except before, during, and after workouts. This is backed up by some stuff published on the internets, but I don't have any links for you.

I measure workload with time and intensity, not miles. If your goal is to simply finish the Gran Fondo, I would work up to being able to ride for the approximate length of time of the Gran Fondo in heart rate zone 2. Personally, I have never ridden in the mountains. but I know that climbing doesn't need to be harder than flatlands. You can just go slower at the same power output provided you have low enough gears. However, I know that people will recommend that you add some hill climbing into your training. Also, if the Gran Fondo is at higher altitude than you are used to, plan for the Gran Fondo to be harder than your training rides.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper ....The one question on my mind, though, is what my training target before the Fondo should be. So with 4 weeks to go I should be riding X miles on my long ride (remember, rolling vs. mountains), what is the value of X? ...

That depends in part on whether your goal is to complete the fondo, complete it as part of the main finishing group or perhaps to complete it in a particularly fast time.

If it's the former and just getting to the end is the goal then common advice is to work up to at least 70% of the distance of your target event. IOW, if you were targeting your first 100 mile century ride then working up to 70 miles on your longer training rides is usually a good goal. Extending that to your 44 mile fondo you'd want to work up to at least 30 miles on your longer rides if not more.

If you want to stay with the main group or want to challenge yourself for a faster time then personally I'd work up at least 40 miles if not the full 44 miles on your longer rides before the event. Realistically 40 miles is NOT a very long training ride even for someone working up to that level in just a few months time. It doesn't have to be 40 miles of flat out riding, it could be a ride with a few stops for refueling along the way but if you want to finish the fondo comfortably in a relatively fast time then I'd definitely work up to something around 40 miles for your longer training rides.

The pace on your quicker lunch rides at 15 mph is actually quite good for someone just getting started and while riding a hybrid. Is that 15 mph average for an hour as in you cover 15 miles in an hour or is that the faster speeds you see on your speedometer while riding? Either way it's not half bad and is very good starting point as it implies you're not simply rolling slowly and looking at the flowers when you ride.

In terms of training over the next 11 months here's what I'd focus on:

- Try to ride at least 4 days per week and most weeks there shouldn't be more than one or two days between rides. IOW, increase the frequency and consistency of your training even if some of those days are just easy spins. Get used to getting on the bike more days than you're not getting on the bike and that will help you in many ways including toughening up your nether regions to handle more time in the saddle, keeping your metabolism moving to help burn calories, keeping your muscles supple and better suited to jumping on the bike, and maybe most importantly making daily or near daily cycling just part of your life routine so it's not a major deal to carve out an hour or two of your day for a ride.

- Stretch the time on bike at least one day per week if you can. Generally this would be a weekend ride when you'd have fewer time constraints but if your schedule allows it could be one of your midweek rides as well. Take one of your weekly hour long rides and stretch it to an hour and a half and then over time work it up to two hours and then over more time bump it up again. With 11 months before your event you should be able to bump up your mileage in slow and steady ways to easily get up to the 3+ hour range for your longest rides.

- On the shorter days make some easier and fun and on others when you feel good roll a bit quicker pace on open stretches of road, no need for gut busting sprints or super hard short efforts but when you hit a longer stretch of open road or a longer hill ride it a bit quicker on days when you feel good, this is especially valuable on stretches of road that take at least 10 minutes or longer. Try to get up to a pace where you're breathing deep and steadily but not gasping or suffering, if you had to you could talk in short three or four word sentences so you shouldn't be absolutely dying but you should be able to tune into deep steady breathing and the effort in those sections should require some concentration. You certainly don't need to or even want to do this on each and every ride but challenge yourself for a bit quicker pace on the days where you feel good on the bike and just ride the hour on days when you don't feel a ton of energy or motivation.

- Try to work up to at least 6 or 8 hours per week on the bike by the time you get within a month of your fondo with one or two of those as longer rides, one or two as shorter but more focused efforts as described above and the others as mellower rides just to keep the body working and spinning on more days per week than it's resting.

Lot's of ways to get more structured with your training, but in the end it comes down to: ride more, ride longer occasionally, ride quicker occasionally, do solid work but don't suffer. Do those things and your fitness and endurance will improve and don't be surprised if your weight also drops as you ride more as long as you don't go crazy with post ride refueling.

Good luck,
-Dave

 

[jpwkeeper]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .

...
The pace on your quicker lunch rides at 15 mph is actually quite good for someone just getting started and while riding a hybrid. Is that 15 mph average for an hour as in you cover 15 miles in an hour or is that the faster speeds you see on your speedometer while riding? Either way it's not half bad and is very good starting point as it implies you're not simply rolling slowly and looking at the flowers when you ride.
...

Good luck, -Dave

@Dave,

A wealth of information, thanks!

That speed is average speed for the ride. I'm a bit of a telemetry nerd, and it kills me that I can't get a GPS tracker to get even more data per ride, but right now I track distance (via the bike computer, although I've double-checked and it's accuracy is pretty good), time, Average HR, and Max HR. Speed is computed from Distance and Time obviously.

15Mph is my "time trial" mode, but I can't sustain it for am hour. 40-45 minutes or so. I have a friend who claims I could see up to a 5Mph boost by going to a road bike, but I think that's greatly exaggerated.

@gudujarlson - The goal is to finish on the bike, not in an ambulance, so 30 miles is a good point to aim for. I hear ya about the appetite increasing. I didn't notice it, but within 2 months of starting to ride I actually gained nearly 5 pounds. Too fast to claim it was muscle

I find both of these replies very encouraging. I can't wait for the weekend (might be next weekend, as my daughter has a roller-skating party and that usually leaves my legs torn up enough that going up stairs is a challenge) for my first long ride.

 

[gudujarlson]

I may have given bad advice. It's quite possible that the slopes in the mountains might be beyond your L2 power, i.e. you might start rolling backwards at that power output. So maybe start with building to the point where you can ride in L2 for the estimated duration easily, but then start upping the intensity. In fact, you might want to do some high intensity interval training in the last 8-12 weeks.

Going from 15 mph to 20 mph by switching to a road bike sounds exaggerated to me also, but it will make a measurable difference. However it won't make you any fitter.

 

[alienator]

I have come to the conclusion that exercise does not help much with weight loss. The more I exercise, the more I eat. I think the key to weight control is controlling what I eat. I try to eat more fruits and vegtables and less of everything else except before, during, and after workouts. This is backed up by some stuff published on the internets, but I don't have any links for you.

Wow. What a conclusion. The gods know that if it's published on the internets, it must be true. Of course, the reality is different than yours. Perhaps you ought to try controlling your eating. Other people are able to do it and lose weight through a combination of exercise and proper diet.

 

[gudujarlson]

Jpwkeeper, here are some links to some recent information on exercise and weight loss.

http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/08/less-is-more-for-exercise-and-weight-loss/
http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/early/2012/07/30/ajpregu.00141.2012.abstract?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialmedia&utm_campaign=twitterclickthru
http://sweatscience.runnersworld.com/2012/04/in-defense-of-exercise-for-weight-loss/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21596715

 

[SDelisle]

Hello - this note is in response to the original post by jpwkeeper.

First, enjoy the gran fondo experience it is awesome riding with thousands of other cyclists.

Other than recommending you get a bike more suitable for such an event (road bike rather than hybrid) I thought I would point out the training programs available on-line on the GranFondo Canada website: http://rbcgranfondowhistler.com/rbc-training-centre
Certainly a good starting point for anyone considering a fondo.

SD

 

[jpwkeeper]

Originally Posted by alienator .


Wow. What a conclusion. The gods know that if it's published on the internets, it must be true.
Of course, the reality is different than yours. Perhaps you ought to try controlling your eating. Other people are able to do it and lose weight through a combination of exercise and proper diet.

Not to start a tiff here, but you two are saying exactly the same thing.

He's saying exercises makes you want to eat more, so by itself doesn't promote weight loss.

You're saying exercise promotes weight loss so long as you also resist the urge to eat more.

 

[Felt_Rider]

About the bike

A road bike can be an improvement over a hybrid, but that is not necessarily always the case for the outcome. Some people have such blessed ability in endurance sport that even with a crappy or a bike that does not fit the event they are able to overcome many in the same class. I have been passsed by guys on on mountain bikes when I have been at threshold while on a road bike. That was years ago and now my fitness is much better so hopefully that will not happen again./img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif A coworker told me that some woman recently placed higher than her in the age group triathlon and was using a mt bike on a very hilly course and my coworker placed third in that event with 40+ in her age group. So the woman with the mt bike did quite well against a large number of women using high end tri bikes. In this case the course was so hilly that most never were able to get tucked into aero and had to stand often on hill climbs. However, this triathlon course was short.

On the other hand I had a friend that is typically a much stronger cyclist than me and can usually drop me at his choosing. Yet a few weeks ago for some reason he brought a hybrid on a rainy day 70 mile training ride with four of us. Our pace was pretty much in the low 20's mph and for about 10 miles he was hanging pretty good, but at about 40 he was starting to fade and eventually dropped out of the ride. I am pretty sure he used a whole lot of energy trying to keep up with us on that hybrid. (I sure like him being on the hybrid since it had fenders and I wasn't eating his wheel spray while in the paceline)

So my point is If the budget will allow a road bike will probably be a good investment for not just this event, but many like it. If the budget does not allow a road bike purchase you can still train and improve fitness with the hybrid. As some have said, "A watt is a watt" and that is good to remember when training.

 

[jpwkeeper]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .

About the bike

A road bike can be an improvement over a hybrid, but that is not necessarily always the case for the outcome. Some people have such blessed ability in endurance sport that even with a crappy or a bike that does not fit the event they are able to overcome many in the same class. I have been passsed by guys on on mountain bikes when I have been at threshold while on a road bike. That was years ago and now my fitness is much better so hopefully that will not happen again./img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif A coworker told me that some woman recently placed higher than her in the age group triathlon and was using a mt bike on a very hilly course and my coworker placed third in that event with 40+ in her age group. So the woman with the mt bike did quite well against a large number of women using high end tri bikes. In this case the course was so hilly that most never were able to get tucked into aero and had to stand often on hill climbs. However, this triathlon course was short.

On the other hand I had a friend that is typically a much stronger cyclist than me and can usually drop me at his choosing. Yet a few weeks ago for some reason he brought a hybrid on a rainy day 70 mile training ride with four of us. Our pace was pretty much in the low 20's mph and for about 10 miles he was hanging pretty good, but at about 40 he was starting to fade and eventually dropped out of the ride. I am pretty sure he used a whole lot of energy trying to keep up with us on that hybrid. (I sure like him being on the hybrid since it had fenders and I wasn't eating his wheel spray while in the paceline)

So my point is If the budget will allow a road bike will probably be a good investment for not just this event, but many like it. If the budget does not allow a road bike purchase you can still train and improve fitness with the hybrid. As some have said, "A watt is a watt" and that is good to remember when training.

Yeah, I really want a full on road bike, but it's just not fitting on the balance sheet at the moment. What I'd like to do is to use my hybrid for my shorter lunchtime rides (my fellow riders at work all ride Mtn and Hybrids, so even if a road bike improved me by 1Mph it would be hard to stay back with the group) then use the road bike for the longer weekend rides, since oddly enough if I can go farther with the same effort it actually opens up a few different routes that are just a bit too long on the hybrid.

I'd love to see a full-on test of Road vs. Hybrid vs. Mountain, so the same riders (you'd have to vary it to account for different size people and different abilities, as I think the difference is likely much more pronounced at 20Mph than it is at 15Mph) pushing the same watts on the same course (probably want to vary the course, too, since I suspect road bikes won't offer as much benefit on climbs as on flats) and measuring their speed to see exactly what difference there is. I've looked around and can't find one, though.

 

[gudujarlson]

This web page will give you a rough estimate of the difference in efficiency between a mountain bike and a road bike.

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

At 160 watts it calculates 17.3 mph for a road bike and 16.1 mph for a mountain bike. That sounds reasonable to me, however I've never tested such a thing myself.

If you want to get to even finer detail, there is other information out there that compares the rolling resistance of tires. For example this web site:

http://biketechreview.com/tires/rolling-resistance/475-roller-data

You quickly get into diminishing returns with rolling resistance and have to start looking at reducing your air resistance. The first step towards that end is to buy a time trial or triathalon bike or I suppose you could put some aero bars on your hybrid, heh. You're getting advice from the wrong guy though, because I have not really gotten into the equipment side of the sport. I have a entry level alluminum road race bike. I run either 23mm training tires or high end 23mm racing clinchers depending on my mood when my tires wear out.

 

[jpwkeeper]

Originally Posted by gudujarlson .

This web page will give you a rough estimate of the difference in efficiency between a mountain bike and a road bike.

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

At 160 watts it calculates 17.3 mph for a road bike and 16.1 mph for a mountain bike. That sounds reasonable to me, however I've never tested such a thing myself.

If you want to get to even finer detail, there is other information out there that compares the rolling resistance of tires. For example this web site:

http://biketechreview.com/tires/rolling-resistance/475-roller-data

You quickly get into diminishing returns with rolling resistance and have to start looking at reducing your air resistance. The first step towards that end is to buy a time trial or triathalon bike or I suppose you could put some aero bars on your hybrid, heh. You're getting advice from the wrong guy though, because I have not really gotten into the equipment side of the sport. I have a entry level alluminum road race bike. I run either 23mm training tires or high end 23mm racing clinchers depending on my mood when my tires wear out.

Putting in my numbers, the results are less than impressive, not quite1Mph difference at 160 watts (which is about where I'm at, apparently). On hills the advantage diminishes even more.

 

[jpwkeeper]

So, I still haven't started the weekly "long" rides, as they're proving difficult to incorporate into my schedule. Once they're in they'll be easier to keep in though.

However, I'm focusing on my climbing technique. No, we don't really have any "climbs" where I live, just rollers, so I'm focusing on taking the slightly longer uphills intentionally in 1 gear too difficult, but maintaining at least 85 cadence and keeping my upper body relaxed and quiet and NOT trying to spring up the hill (because my climbs tend to be short I have a nasty tendency for my cadence to actually go up into the 100s, which isn't maintainable). When I'm climbing I'm holding the handlebars with spider hands, so just my fingers lightly on the bars but with my thumbs hooked in case I hit something hard.

I'm also making a list of things I'll need, including:

Cycling Jerseys (mainly for the pockets in the small of the back)
Under-seat bag (for storing the next item)
Spare tube & pump (don't need tire irons for a hybrid, the tire comes off really easily)
Camelback & backpack combo (they make those, right?)
Cycling shoes (I wear sneakers now, but I ride with PowerGrips), preferably mountain bike shoes so I can walk in them.

Anything I'm missing?

 

[Monroe71]

One of the biggest questions here is, beyond the length and vertical feet of climbing, what gradients are you facing?
Knowing that may determine your choice of bike and gearing - If you're on a road bike you may want to opt for a cluster with a lower gear range and a compact crank on the front especially if you are hitting some hard gradients - say upwards of 10%. - Though it does sound like the granny gear of the hybrid may give you the ability to grind up almost anything.

 

[jpwkeeper]

Originally Posted by Monroe71 .

One of the biggest questions here is, beyond the length and vertical feet of climbing, what gradients are you facing?
Knowing that may determine your choice of bike and gearing - If you're on a road bike you may want to opt for a cluster with a lower gear range and a compact crank on the front especially if you are hitting some hard gradients - say upwards of 10%. - Though it does sound like the granny gear of the hybrid may give you the ability to grind up almost anything.

Bowman Hill, which is mid-race, and the climb back to the ski resort at the end both apparently hit some painful gradients. I'd have to look it up, and I can't properly see the website from here, but I thought in a few placed it actually exceeded 10% for stretches. So if I do get a new bike I definitely need that granny gear (My back cog is a 34T on the hybrid, but I don't know what the small chainring of the triple is up front).

 

[bobqzzi]

In my opinion, the following would be important in this order:

1. Upping the intensity of your daily rides. Since your time is limited, you need to maximize it. By increasing your LT through targeted L4/L5 rides, you will greatly ease the metabolic cost of slower rides. If, for instance you could do 18 miles in an hour of effort, riding at 15 for much longer times will become easy. It also will reduce redlining on the hills. Intensity of training is much more important than length.

2. A weekly long ride is important, but you could cap that at 3 hours, then just increase intensity and be okay. Much of the longer ride is just getting the various body parts used to being on the bike that long.

3. Lose weight. As others have said, it makes a massive difference on the hills. I will agree that this is much more about calorie consumption than exercise. A simple review of the math will show that. A side benefit is there are many proven health benefits for reduced body mass.

4. Slowly lower the stem on the bike. Look into getting some premium slick tires (but not for training, save them until just before the event). Those 2 changes will get you about 90% of the improvement a dedicated road bike would.