=> Torturers and Liars =<

Albert Nurick said:

If the stuff were real, the mainstream media would be all over it.

What "stuff", kook? Are you saying there is no occupation
or resistance in Iraq? No U.S. troops there? No dead
or severely injured U.S. troops? No Haliburton fraud and
war profiteering? No torture or war crimes? Your vague,
incoherent rants, although amusing, have no meaning -
especially given the fact that you have shown yourself to
be an ignorant kook, a coward, and a blatant liar.

-

"Evil prevails when good people do nothing."

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook, on the rape, torture and murder
at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm)

http://globalresearch.ca/
http://www.wsws.org/

George W. Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other
governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues
to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever
devised." March 17, 2003.

"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Keith Schiffner said:

"Hank"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. Brutally beating and torturing people until
they die isn't within the Geneva Conventions.

Quoted message said:

Uh yes it is if they are spies or saboteurs.

Nope.

-

"Evil prevails when good people do nothing."

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook, on the rape, torture and murder
at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
(http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm)

http://globalresearch.ca/
http://www.wsws.org/

George W. Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other
governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues
to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever
devised." March 17, 2003.

"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Keith Schiffner said:

"Rob Kleinschmidt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect the last uniforms in Afghanistan were
probably worn
by the Soviets. How many non-uniformed militia
in the American
revolution ?

On the first part yep most likely. As for the
later it isn't relevant to the discussion.

If lack of a uniform makes somebody an "illegal combatant"
or spy or saboteur, virtually every combatant in Afghanistan
Northern Alliance or Taliban, and a large part of the
American revolutionary militas would fall into that category.

For Afghanistan, I think that's stretching things more than
a little bit, considering that the Taliban/Northern Alliance
civil war was basically a conflict between two non-uniformed
militias.

If these guys aren't prisoners of war, then we need to either
set up fair trials with legitimate defense assistance or let
them go, and in either case, close Guantanamo.

What I find bothersome is that when we do stuff in the name of
a "war on terror", then it's an easy step to doing it for the
war on drugs, or the war on you name it.

Rob Kleinschmidt said:

Keith Schiffner said:

"Rob Kleinschmidt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect the last uniforms in Afghanistan were
probably worn
by the Soviets. How many non-uniformed militia
in the American
revolution ?

On the first part yep most likely. As for the
later it isn't relevant to the discussion.

If lack of a uniform makes somebody an "illegal combatant"
or spy or saboteur, virtually every combatant in Afghanistan
Northern Alliance or Taliban, and a large part of the
American revolutionary militas would fall into that category.

Rules are rules. If they wish to claim protection under the 1949
Geneva Convention as prisoners of war, they must fulfill the
conditions set forth in Section (A)(2) of Convention III, Article IV:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his
subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a
distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws
and customs of war.

If they fail to meet those conditions precedent, they may be detained,
and if suspected as spies or saboteurs, "such person shall, in those
cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as
having forfeited rights of communication under the present
Convention," and their trial may be delayed "consistent with the
security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be," all
pursuant to Convention IV, Article V.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

"JMW"

Quoted message said:

Rob Kleinschmidt said:

Keith Schiffner said:

"Rob Kleinschmidt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

> I suspect the last uniforms in Afghanistan were
> probably worn
> by the Soviets. How many non-uniformed militia
> in the American
> revolution ?

On the first part yep most likely. As for the
later it isn't relevant to the discussion.

If lack of a uniform makes somebody an "illegal combatant"
or spy or saboteur, virtually every combatant in Afghanistan
Northern Alliance or Taliban, and a large part of the
American revolutionary militas would fall into that category.

Rules are rules. If they wish to claim protection under the 1949
Geneva Convention as prisoners of war, they must fulfill the
conditions set forth in Section (A)(2) of Convention III, Article IV:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his
subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a
distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws
and customs of war.

If they fail to meet those conditions precedent, they may be detained,
and if suspected as spies or saboteurs, "such person shall, in those
cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as
having forfeited rights of communication under the present
Convention," and their trial may be delayed "consistent with the
security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be," all
pursuant to Convention IV, Article V.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

There you go again. Trying to confuse people with the facts.

"Hank" <"stopbu$h"@warcrimes.gov> wrote

Quoted message said:

Brutally torturing people until they die of their
injuries is a war crime. If you're seriously not
aware that this takes place in bu$h's torture chambers,
you really should do some reading before you comment

But Hank, I am well read and prolly have info you do not. The none of the
detainees enjoy the status of POW nor are they civilian criminals. They are
the worst of the worst terrorist assassins and their leaders and enablers
culled from 10s of 1000s of ordinary prisoners. If we release them they go
right back to killing. Perhaps we should empty gitmo by simply executing
them out of hand as international law allows but meanwhile they are fed,
clothed, sheltered and treated humanely - perhaps too humanely. As I said
before, our people at Gitmo are pro's. They know that "brutally torturing
people until they die" is no way to get reliable information out of them.
Remember, these are hardened terrorists who have tortured other people to
death. Torture them and they will die telling you lies - and that's counter
productive. You instead engage in idle chit chat. "How did you get into al
Qaeda?" and if he answers you know about al Qaedas recruitment techniques.
If not you move on, telling some stories of your own, then come back.

You asked for specifics and I gave them. Now have you ever seen proof of
anybody being tortured to death, or tortured at all?? If so lets hear it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Such was the case when Amnesty International issued its May 26 report
detailing prisoner mistreatment at Guantánamo.

Quoted message said:

Please detail this "mistreatment"

Read AI's report.

I did. I read about haircuts, not being allowed to flop on the ground to
pray, etc. but no torture. You'll have to do better than that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"There are plenty of women in Falluja who have testified they were
raped by American soldiers," one resident told journalist Dahr Jamail.
Mohammed Abdulla, executive director of the Study Center for Human
Rights and Democracy, said, "There are daily war crimes being
committed in Falluja, even now."

Quoted message said:

Pure unadulterated hearsay. "one resident told a journalist" How about

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

evidence?

Victim testimony is evidence.

Sure, but you didn't offer victim evidence. The above says "one resident
told one reporter that plenty of women had testified ...." - third hand
hearsay is not evidence. Have any of these women gone to police and ID'd
their rapist?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Only half of Falluja's residents have returned since last year's
siege. Most found their homes destroyed. They live in tents, without
electricity or access to clean water, and curfews don't allow
civilians on the streets after 9 p.m.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Americans refer jokingly to Falluja as Iraq's "gated community"--since
its residents are trapped inside or outside by U.S. checkpoints. All
Falluja citizens must carry security passes containing their name,
fingerprints and an iris scan that can be cross checked with Iraqi
detainees.

Quoted message said:

They should have turned the insurgents they were protecting over
before any of this happened.

No offense, but you're so far out of touch with the
reality of the situation that it's pointless to
attempt to educate you. But if you really want to
know the truth, the site below is a great place ot
start. BTW, this guy will answer your emails personally.
He's one of the few journalists in Iraq who isn't
"embedded" with the military, and isn't pressured to tell
the war criminals' side of the story.

http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/

I'm out of touch? I know people over there. No, most see the same facts a
little different than the source you recommend - but then they never ask me
for donations either.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What do you think should happen if I let some criminal
hide in my house and shoot people out the window?

The Iraqis don't let U.S. snipers shoot from their windows.
They have little choice in the matter.

No, but they allow Saudi and Jordanian snipers to do so. Then when an
American Marine tosses a grenade in after them you and they cry like babies.
Americans got killed taking Faluja. Why do you think they did so? Cuz they
like seeing their friends get blown away?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Remember, the people killing our kids are NOT Iraqi soldiers,
many are not even Iraqis. We have every right under US and
international law to kill them - and people who
assist them.

Vito, you are displaying an alarming level of ignorance and
gullibility. ......

Bwahahaha! Me?? I know many of these brutal, illegal, immoral and sadistic
foreign invaders and so do you. They are the kids who flip your burgers, fix
your cars and plumbing, sell you real estate and drive ambulances and teach
your kids. Do you really think they suddenly turn into monsters who go out
looking for people to kill once in Iraq? The current ongoing war is against
outsiders. Zuquari and most his people are NOT Iranians. But to the extent
that Iranians help and shelter these outsiders they are going to get caught
in the crossfire.

Quoted message said:

The cowardly, lying, thieving draft dodgers on the bu$h regime
are terrorists and war criminals. ........

Be that as it may, you have still not offered any evidence of torture at
Gitmo nor of US troops raping and pillaging in Iraq.

Quoted message said:

No, they were pretty much dissolved in the early 50s,
and conditions improved greatly. AI wasn't founded
until after 1960. You should do som ebasic research
before you post.

See how you wrote "pretty much dissolved?"

I could do all the reasearch in the world and your little "pretty much"
could mean anything you want it to. WTF? Is that "pretty much" so you
could escape the FACT that they were still running as late as 1987 yet
perhaps not in the same capacity? EVIDENCE exists that they *did* run
unil 1987. I did the research. Your "pretty much" means that you did
too, yet you choose to ignore the FACT that they didn't close them
*completly* until 1987. You knew this, didn't you yet you choose to
decieve. You're no better than Bush.

Quoted message said:

Amnesty International has done an excellent job of defending
it's claim with hard facts,

Even though that came out a few days after they threw their bomb and
stated that they really have no evidence?

You suck.

JMW said:

Rob Kleinschmidt said:

Keith Schiffner said:

"Rob Kleinschmidt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

> I suspect the last uniforms in Afghanistan were
> probably worn
> by the Soviets. How many non-uniformed militia
> in the American
> revolution ?

On the first part yep most likely. As for the
later it isn't relevant to the discussion.

If lack of a uniform makes somebody an "illegal combatant"
or spy or saboteur, virtually every combatant in Afghanistan
Northern Alliance or Taliban, and a large part of the
American revolutionary militas would fall into that category.

Rules are rules. If they wish to claim protection under the 1949
Geneva Convention as prisoners of war, they must fulfill the
conditions set forth in Section (A)(2) of Convention III, Article IV:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his
subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a
distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws
and customs of war.

If they fail to meet those conditions precedent, they may be detained,
and if suspected as spies or saboteurs, "such person shall, in those
cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as
having forfeited rights of communication under the present
Convention," and their trial may be delayed "consistent with the
security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be," all
pursuant to Convention IV, Article V.

Point being that this is a legalism only. Calling someone
captured on a battlefield a spy or saboteur is [censored].
Captured in an act of spying or sabotage is a different matter.

JMW said:

Rob Kleinschmidt said:

Keith Schiffner said:

"Rob Kleinschmidt" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

> I suspect the last uniforms in Afghanistan were
> probably worn
> by the Soviets. How many non-uniformed militia
> in the American
> revolution ?

On the first part yep most likely. As for the
later it isn't relevant to the discussion.

If lack of a uniform makes somebody an "illegal combatant"
or spy or saboteur, virtually every combatant in Afghanistan
Northern Alliance or Taliban, and a large part of the
American revolutionary militas would fall into that category.

Rules are rules. If they wish to claim protection under the 1949
Geneva Convention as prisoners of war, they must fulfill the
conditions set forth in Section (A)(2) of Convention III, Article IV:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his
subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a
distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws
and customs of war.

If they fail to meet those conditions precedent, they may be detained,
and if suspected as spies or saboteurs, "such person shall, in those
cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as
having forfeited rights of communication under the present
Convention," and their trial may be delayed "consistent with the
security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be," all
pursuant to Convention IV, Article V.

Note also two other portions of the same convention:

(A)(6) of Convention III, Article IV:

(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of
the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces,
without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units,
provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of
war.

and Convention III, Article V:

Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a
belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong
to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall
enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as
their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/geneva03.htm#art5

You can build a pretty decent case for Taliban fighters being
prisoners of war. Strong enough I think to at least grant them
initial POW status until determined otherwise by a tribunal.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Rayvan said:

Quoted message said:

No, they were pretty much dissolved in the early 50s,
and conditions improved greatly. AI wasn't founded
until after 1960. You should do som ebasic research
before you post.

See how you wrote "pretty much dissolved?"

I could do all the reasearch in the world and your little "pretty much"
could mean anything you want it to. WTF? Is that "pretty much" so you
could escape the FACT that they were still running as late as 1987 yet
perhaps not in the same capacity? EVIDENCE exists that they *did* run
unil 1987. I did the research. Your "pretty much" means that you did
too, yet you choose to ignore the FACT that they didn't close them
*completly* until 1987. You knew this, didn't you yet you choose to
decieve. You're no better than Bush.

Very much like the Bush Admin, ignoring facts it what "Hank" does best.
He's a real loser, as you can see for yourself. He gives more ammo to
the pro Bush camp then he could ever know.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

"Vito" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Hank" <"stopbu$h"@warcrimes.gov> wrote

Quoted message said:

Brutally torturing people until they die of their
injuries is a war crime. If you're seriously not
aware that this takes place in bu$h's torture chambers,
you really should do some reading before you comment

Vito,
Hank's a frigging commie, ya can't reason with him. Lucky I'm not in
charge, I'd torture the living [censored] out of the [censored].

--
Tony D
1971 R75/5 boxer
2004 R1150 Rockster
Philly Hoodlum©#37
SENS (less) LFS#38 PHS
BS#149 FYYFMFFY

JMW said:

"Rob Kleinschmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If lack of a uniform makes somebody an "illegal combatant"
or spy or saboteur, virtually every combatant in Afghanistan
Northern Alliance or Taliban, and a large part of the
American revolutionary militas would fall into that category.

Quoted message said:

Rules are rules. If they wish to claim protection under the 1949
Geneva Convention as prisoners of war, they must fulfill the
conditions set forth in Section (A)(2) of Convention III, Article IV:

Quoted message said:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his
subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a
distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws
and customs of war.

If they fail to meet those conditions precedent, they may be detained,
and if suspected as spies or saboteurs, "such person shall, in those
cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as
having forfeited rights of communication under the present
Convention," and their trial may be delayed "consistent with the
security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be," all
pursuant to Convention IV, Article V.

Torturing and beating people until they die is illegal
regardless of what word games you try to play, wease.
Why do you hate freedom, justice, human rights, and why
do you wish to shame and degrade The United States of
America?

-

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"The tsunami was a wonderful opportunity to show not just the
US government, but the heart of the American people, and I think
it has paid great dividends for us." Condoleezza Rice

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Vito said:

"Hank" <"stopbu$h"@warcrimes.gov> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Brutally torturing people until they die of their
injuries is a war crime. If you're seriously not
aware that this takes place in bu$h's torture chambers,
you really should do some reading before you comment

Quoted message said:

But Hank, I am well read and prolly have info you do not. The none of the
detainees enjoy the status of POW nor are they civilian criminals. They are
the worst of the worst terrorist assassins and their leaders and enablers
culled from 10s of 1000s of ordinary prisoners.

If you were well read, you wouldn't believe such complete nonsense.
Even "coalition military intelligence" estimates that 70-90 percent
of bu$h's prisoners were wrongly arrested. Iraqi civilians
have their doors kicked in during the middle of the night,
their families kidnapped and/or assaulted, and their belongings
destroyed or stolen. That's the bu$h regime's way of
winning hearts and minds. It's also a reason the Iraqi
resistance continues to grow.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-04.htm

by Bob Drogin

"WASHINGTON — Coalition military intelligence officials estimated
that 70% to 90% of prisoners detained in Iraq since the war began last
year "had been arrested by mistake," according to a confidential Red
Cross report given to the Bush administration earlier this year."

Quoted message said:

You asked for specifics and I gave them. Now have you ever seen proof of
anybody being tortured to death, or tortured at all?? If so lets hear it.

I get the impression that even if you were present while an
innocent Iraqi kid was beaten to death in one of bu$h's torture
chambers, you would still claim he died of "natural causes".
What's really strange, is that even though the bu$h regime
has a long history of lying, and clear incentives to lie and
cover up its war crimes, some folks still believe their lies
while rejecting witness testimony and in-depth research by award
winning journalists with impeccable credibility and no incentive
to lie. Now that's some thorough brainwashing!

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0820-07.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0521-01.htm

-

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"The tsunami was a wonderful opportunity to show not just the
US government, but the heart of the American people, and I think
it has paid great dividends for us." Condoleezza Rice

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Quoted message said:

Very much like the Bush Admin, ignoring facts it what "Hank" does best.
He's a real loser, as you can see for yourself. He gives more ammo to
the pro Bush camp then he could ever know.

http://www.pbase.com/rayvan/image/44895757

And he causes this to happen and doesn't know why...

Duh!

Rayvan said:

Quoted message said:

No, they were pretty much dissolved in the early 50s,
and conditions improved greatly. AI wasn't founded
until after 1960. You should do som ebasic research
before you post.

Quoted message said:

See how you wrote "pretty much dissolved?"

It would take a Nurick-like kook to deny it's
there.

Quoted message said:

I could do all the reasearch in the world and your little
"pretty much" could mean anything you want it to. WTF?

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/gula.html

"Conditions in the camps were extremely harsh. Prisoners received
inadequate food rations and insufficient clothing, which made it
difficult to endure the severe weather and the long working hours;
sometimes the inmates were physically abused by camp guards. As a
result, the death rate from exhaustion and disease in the camps was
high. After Stalin died in 1953, the Gulag population was reduced
significantly, and conditions for inmates somewhat improved. Forced
labor camps continued to exist, although on a small scale, into the
Gorbachev period, and the government even opened some camps to
scrutiny by journalists and human rights activists. With the advance
of democratization, political prisoners and prisoners of conscience
all but disappeared from the camps."

You were whining about A.I. not getting all worked
up about Gulags. The reason is that by the time A.I
was formed (1960s), the Gulags were nothing like the
human rights atrocity they had been in the 30s-50s.
What's so complicated about that, and why are you
supporting/denying bu$h's present day human rights
atrocities? Do you want to see the United States of
America disgraced by letting the war criminals on the
bu$h regime trample human rights the way Stalin, [censored],
and Hussein did?
My expectations for my Government and my Country are
considerably higher than that.

-

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"The tsunami was a wonderful opportunity to show not just the
US government, but the heart of the American people, and I think
it has paid great dividends for us." Condoleezza Rice

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Rayvan said:

Quoted message said:

Amnesty International has done an excellent job of defending
it's claim with hard facts,

Quoted message said:

Even though that came out a few days after they threw their bomb and
stated that they really have no evidence?

WTF? It's bu$h who has no evidence against most of his
torture victims and detainees.
AI has plenty of evidence proving that bu$h is violating
Geneva Conventions and committing human rights atrocities.
Why do you hate freedom, human rights, and The United
States of America? Why do you want your government to
crush human rights the way [censored], Hussein, and Stalin
crushed them?

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0610-25.htm
http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050611-083612-2280r

-

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"The tsunami was a wonderful opportunity to show not just the
US government, but the heart of the American people, and I think
it has paid great dividends for us." Condoleezza Rice

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Rob Kleinschmidt said:

JMW wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Rules are rules. If they wish to claim protection under the 1949
Geneva Convention as prisoners of war, they must fulfill the
conditions set forth in Section (A)(2) of Convention III, Article IV:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his
subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a
distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws
and customs of war.

If they fail to meet those conditions precedent, they may be detained,
and if suspected as spies or saboteurs, "such person shall, in those
cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as
having forfeited rights of communication under the present
Convention," and their trial may be delayed "consistent with the
security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be," all
pursuant to Convention IV, Article V.

Quoted message said:

Point being that this is a legalism only. Calling someone
captured on a battlefield a spy or saboteur is [censored].
Captured in an act of spying or sabotage is a different matter.

And it would still be illegal to beat and torture
them to death.
Some people value freedom, human rights, and the
rule of law. Others, like Johhny Williams here, do
not.

-

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Brutal and sadistic? By what girly-man standards? Compared
to how Saddam treated his prisoners, a bit of humiliation was
a walk in the park. AFAIK, No one died or even lost any blood."
-Albert Nurick, a usenet kook and blatant liar, on the rape,
torture and murder at bu$h's Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0512-10.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"The tsunami was a wonderful opportunity to show not just the
US government, but the heart of the American people, and I think
it has paid great dividends for us." Condoleezza Rice

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

"Hank"

Quoted message said:

JMW said:

"Rob Kleinschmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If lack of a uniform makes somebody an "illegal combatant"
or spy or saboteur, virtually every combatant in Afghanistan
Northern Alliance or Taliban, and a large part of the
American revolutionary militas would fall into that category.

Quoted message said:

Rules are rules. If they wish to claim protection under the 1949
Geneva Convention as prisoners of war, they must fulfill the
conditions set forth in Section (A)(2) of Convention III, Article IV:

Quoted message said:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his
subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a
distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws
and customs of war.

If they fail to meet those conditions precedent, they may be detained,
and if suspected as spies or saboteurs, "such person shall, in those
cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as
having forfeited rights of communication under the present
Convention," and their trial may be delayed "consistent with the
security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be," all
pursuant to Convention IV, Article V.

Torturing and beating people until they die is illegal
regardless of what word games you try to play, wease.
Why do you hate freedom, justice, human rights, and why
do you wish to shame and degrade The United States of
America?

How many people have died? Two? At least one had a pre-existing
condition and died of a loosened blood clot. How many died at Gitmo?
None. They eat pretty good, get their Holy Korans handled with gloves
and aren't even entitled to the Geneva Conventions. Your hysteria for
political gain isn't cuttin' the mustard, you're being counterproductive,
take a clue.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:23:33 -0400, Hank <"stopbu$h"@warcrimes.gov>

Quoted message said:

Morgan Reynolds is not a conspiracy kook:

snip

Damn Henry, that's a whole lotta babbling to prove the obvious...

Five months before WTC was destroyed it was leased by Silverstein. A
Jew. Prior to that only the Port Authority ever ran the building.

Mayor Bloomberg is a Jew too!

The conservative Zionists have been hankering for war with Iraq for
years now. But they couldn't get it with wishy-washy Clinton in
office.

Monica Lewinsky, also a Jew, was hired to fellate Bubba.

Bubba fell and ushered in the GOP.

The Bush admin remained intentionally weak on terrorism. When they got
wind of a plot to plow airliners into the WTC, they got even more lax
on terror investigations.

Silverstein and Co. wired the Twin Towers with explosives to bring
about their controlled demolision.

Eventually a few hijackers got their planes thanks to an intentionally
worthless CIA and plowed them into the WTC.

They were imploded via remote control and voila... war with Iraq.
After war with Afghanistan of course.

I could take credit for inventing this, but it's common thinking over
in Yoorope.