Too late?

(MortDubois) said:

Heath <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi, just a quick one...is it too late to start cycling at the age of 18
considering most elite cyclists would have started at a far earlier
age?

Unlike many sports, road cycling requires no special coordination or
technique. (Mountain biking is slightly more skill-intensive) You
simply have to be able to ride faster than the other people, which is
largely a function of your own aerobic capabilities and body type.
What the elite riders have in common is not that they started young,
but that they have awesome hearts and lungs paired up with a skinny
body. A few years of consistent training and racing at the local
level will tell you whether you will make it to the elite level. Get
a decent bike, find a local club, and have at it. Even if you never
reat Cat. 1, you will still have a lot of fun.

The rewards come pretty quickly biking, even moreso when you're young. It's
really a self-sustaining activity. You start out with 'gawd just let me
finish this 2 mile loop' and are soon riding all over town. Very enabling -
fegeddabout the long or short term, really.

In addition, within the ride, itself, there are multiple rewards - keeping
tempo more easily than the previous ride, hitting that little uphill so
hard that you used to dread - in fact it's now an essential and eagerly
anticipated placee to get a little practice for the real hills and to see
what shape your legs are on that day.

Your legs talk to you - they let you know if you need some more warm up or
if today is an 'attack' day. At first you don't know how to interpret what
they're telling you, but later you look for it.

Finally, your 'mind' gets control of your body. You tell the legs to
'shaddup and spin or else', and they do it!

Pretty easy to get addicted - actually that's the real danger of starting
biking - not the 'can I race'. You'll end up with not a home, but a place
with a roof to keep your bike(s). ;-p

-B

MortDubois said:

Heath <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi, just a quick one...is it too late to start cycling at the age of 18
considering most elite cyclists would have started at a far earlier
age?

Unlike many sports, road cycling requires no special coordination or
technique. (Mountain biking is slightly more skill-intensive) You
simply have to be able to ride faster than the other people, which is
largely a function of your own aerobic capabilities and body type.
What the elite riders have in common is not that they started young,
but that they have awesome hearts and lungs paired up with a skinny
body. A few years of consistent training and racing at the local
level will tell you whether you will make it to the elite level. Get
a decent bike, find a local club, and have at it. Even if you never
reat Cat. 1, you will still have a lot of fun.

I think "no" special coordination or technique is a slight misstatement
(witness Ullrich's disappearing act in the last few Tours; by this, I mean
where he ran off the road or almost ran off the road). I also agree that
mountain biking takes more technique, and that genetics (plus
determinatio) is what's necessary.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Quoted message said:

Unlike many sports, road cycling requires no special coordination or
technique.

I guess you've never taken a tight turn in a crit race. No special
coordination or tecnique my a**

Quoted message said:

Unlike many sports, road cycling requires no special coordination or
technique.

I guess you've never taken a tight turn in a crit race. No special
coordination or tecnique my a**

gds said:

Quoted message said:

Unlike many sports, road cycling requires no special coordination or
technique.

I guess you've never taken a tight turn in a crit race. No special
coordination or tecnique my a**

Or downhill at 50+ mph (or handled a front tire blow out at 40+), or
bunny hopped road debris or critters, avoided collision with cars,
handled left hand turn in traffic, ignored horns blasted in your ear
or off-roading with a road bike (ooh, I did like Lance! :-).
Maybe a few other things I can't think of right now

--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry [email hidden]
http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)

Quoted message said:

I think "no" special coordination or technique is a slight misstatement
(witness Ullrich's disappearing act in the last few Tours; by this, I mean
where he ran off the road or almost ran off the road). I also agree that
mountain biking takes more technique, and that genetics (plus
determinatio) is what's necessary.

Sorry, but I'll stand by my original statement. Compared to most
sports, very little skill or technique involved in cycling. You and
the following posters have identified some of the more difficult
moments in a bike race, but c'mon - 98% of the sport is turning the
pedals. That's one of the best things about cycling. You can start
at any age and enjoy it, and if you have the proper genetics and
training you will be competitive with your age cohort. In almost all
other sports that simply isn't true, because the techniques need
constant practice and many of them are difficult to master. I would
say that for soccer, basketball, tennis, football, baseball, and many
more, starting early is a big advantage. Not necessary for cycling,
running, perhaps swimming, and the other aerobic oriented sports.

And if you don't believe me, watch a group of cyclists try to play a
pickup basketball game.

Quoted message said:

I think "no" special coordination or technique is a slight misstatement
(witness Ullrich's disappearing act in the last few Tours; by this, I mean
where he ran off the road or almost ran off the road). I also agree that
mountain biking takes more technique, and that genetics (plus
determinatio) is what's necessary.

Sorry, but I'll stand by my original statement. Compared to most
sports, very little skill or technique involved in cycling. You and
the following posters have identified some of the more difficult
moments in a bike race, but c'mon - 98% of the sport is turning the
pedals. That's one of the best things about cycling. You can start
at any age and enjoy it, and if you have the proper genetics and
training you will be competitive with your age cohort. In almost all
other sports that simply isn't true, because the techniques need
constant practice and many of them are difficult to master. I would
say that for soccer, basketball, tennis, football, baseball, and many
more, starting early is a big advantage. Not necessary for cycling,
running, perhaps swimming, and the other aerobic oriented sports.

And if you don't believe me, watch a group of cyclists try to play a
pickup basketball game.

On 18 Aug 2004 16:36:41 -0700 in rec.bicycles.misc,

(MortDubois) said:

Compared to most
sports, very little skill or technique involved in cycling.

you have obviously never raced or been a serious bike rider.

PLONK.

MortDubois said:

Quoted message said:

I think "no" special coordination or technique is a slight misstatement
(witness Ullrich's disappearing act in the last few Tours; by this, I
mean
where he ran off the road or almost ran off the road). I also agree
that
mountain biking takes more technique, and that genetics (plus
determinatio) is what's necessary.

Sorry, but I'll stand by my original statement. Compared to most
sports, very little skill or technique involved in cycling. You and
the following posters have identified some of the more difficult
moments in a bike race, but c'mon - 98% of the sport is turning the
pedals. That's one of the best things about cycling. You can start
at any age and enjoy it, and if you have the proper genetics and
training you will be competitive with your age cohort. In almost all
other sports that simply isn't true, because the techniques need
constant practice and many of them are difficult to master. I would
say that for soccer, basketball, tennis, football, baseball, and many
more, starting early is a big advantage. Not necessary for cycling,
running, perhaps swimming, and the other aerobic oriented sports.

And if you don't believe me, watch a group of cyclists try to play a
pickup basketball game.

Ok, if you watch a group of basketball players negotiate a downhill road
at 60 mph, complete with hairpin turns. In the rain. Or how about try to
ride up a 10% grade while it's raining? Or perhaps some cobbles, with or
without rain. That should be fun! We'll compare notes. "Skill" is a
generic, nebulous term. Granted, a lot of cycling is pushing pedals, but
I've also become much better at climbing in and out of the saddle, taking
downhills faster, and even much better at the technique of "pushing
pedals" (which one shouldn't do -- I find it better to pedal circles).
Plus, how many people die playing basketball? We know people die and
brake bones from cycling.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:27:19 GMT, Bob in CT <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ok, if you watch a group of basketball players negotiate a downhill road
at 60 mph, complete with hairpin turns. In the rain.

OK, I've raced. Its unlikely I would do that in a race, period. Maybe
on a course that I raced and/or rode a lot. In the dry. I've seen
pretty good bike racers slide under guard rails in the dry at much
lower speeds. OK, a couple. Most aren't that dumb.

The OP said 'in comparison'. Compared to many sports, bicycle racing
isn't a high skill sport. Of course there are skills, But we're
talking about 'in comparison' to other sports.

I also played a lot of tennis. They would get upset if you were to
say that it wasn't an endurance event. They would talk about Kenny
Rosewall and the old days of afternoons spent wailing on the ball. But
compared to road racing, no, tennis is not an endurance event. And
I've played serious sets that went for hours in Thailand in the hot
season.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Mort Dubois said:

Compared to most sports, very little skill or technique involved in
cycling.

I see you haven't take the time top watch a bicycle race, on a track
or on the road. In many bicycle races the top riders are fairly equal
in physical power and speed while the one who knows when to apply that
power, how to intimidate and cajole the others by suitable efforts,
will win the race. Understanding how to sense the strengths and
weaknesses of other racers, "reading the field" is a major part of
bicycle racing.

In contrast, wannabe racers believe there are secret pedaling or
breathing styles that riders use to win. This belief, as yours, masks
their inability to see that those who win races are often both more
astute in sizing up the opposition AND are better trained.

Besides that, not getting too close to unskilled riders in races
prevents crashes. Last year Lance Armstrong took a detour in the
rough when the man he was following slipped on a slick tar filled
crack in the road. His bicycle handling skills enabled him to get
back on the road over rough terrain.

What gave you the impression that racing and bicycle handling require
little skill? Do you ride, and where?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

MortDubois said:

> I think "no" special coordination or technique is a slight misstatement

Quoted message said:

(witness Ullrich's disappearing act in the last few Tours; by this, I mean
where he ran off the road or almost ran off the road). I also agree that
mountain biking takes more technique, and that genetics (plus
determinatio) is what's necessary.

Sorry, but I'll stand by my original statement. Compared to most
sports, very little skill or technique involved in cycling. You and
the following posters have identified some of the more difficult
moments in a bike race, but c'mon - 98% of the sport is turning the
pedals. That's one of the best things about cycling. You can start
at any age and enjoy it, and if you have the proper genetics and
training you will be competitive with your age cohort. In almost all
other sports that simply isn't true, because the techniques need
constant practice and many of them are difficult to master. I would
say that for soccer, basketball, tennis, football, baseball, and many
more, starting early is a big advantage. Not necessary for cycling,
running, perhaps swimming, and the other aerobic oriented sports.

And if you don't believe me, watch a group of cyclists try to play a
pickup basketball game.

That I have done. While cyclists were a bit dodgy with hoops does not mean that they would never get to the level of prowess that urban b-ball players posess if they approached every game with the same determination they race.

What I have never seen is those b-ball players get on a bike and ride. Nor do I see many B-ball players swim competetively but witness triatheletes...

Riding a bike and racing is as different as divinr a car and racing a car. Or riding a horse and racing. Fortunately I have experience in all three and while not an expert in any, I can say riding and racing are different beasts.

Mort Dubois said:

Compared to most sports, very little skill or technique involved in
cycling.

I see you haven't take the time to watch a bicycle race, on a track
or on the road. In many bicycle races the top riders are fairly equal
in physical power and speed while the one who knows when to apply that
power, how to intimidate and cajole the others by suitable efforts,
will win the race. Understanding how to sense the strengths and
weaknesses of other racers, "reading the field" is a major part of
bicycle racing.

In contrast, wannabe racers believe there are secret pedaling or
breathing styles that riders use to win. This belief, as yours, masks
their inability to see that those who win races are often both more
astute in sizing up the opposition AND are better trained.

Besides that, not getting too close to unskilled riders in races
prevents crashes. Last year Lance Armstrong took a detour in the
rough when the man he was following slipped on a slick tar filled
crack in the road. His bicycle handling skills enabled him to get
back on the road over rough terrain.

What gave you the impression that racing and bicycle handling require
little skill? Do you ride, and where?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

[email hidden] (Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 18 Aug 2004 16:36:41 -0700 in rec.bicycles.misc,

(MortDubois) said:

Compared to most
sports, very little skill or technique involved in cycling.

you have obviously never raced or been a serious bike rider.

PLONK.

Sure, I raced for years. I ride to work through traffic, in all
weather. I've done Slick Rock in Moab. I've toured through the Alps.
I also play soccer every week. I'm not trying to say that cycling is
easier than the other sports - just that it's different. I don't
think that your average pro football or basketball player could hang
with Lance over 3 weeks of racing, but if you think that they couldn't
learn to ride a bike downhill, fast, then you're a fool. It takes
more coordination to play a game of football, soccer, tennis, or
basketball than it does to ride a bike. Playing team sports is like
doing a crit with half the riders going around the circuit in the
opposite direction, trying to knock the other guys off their bikes.
Now if that is what bike racing consisted of, you would see some
coordinated riders with some interesting techniques. Bike racing is
largely performed in a cooperative manner - it's in everyone's
interest to keep the bikes upright and heading down the road in the
same direction. So the race is won or lost through strength and
tactics, not skill or technique. I didn't say that there was NO skill
or technique, just that it's a lot less important than other sports.

PLONK yourself.

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but I'll stand by my original statement. Compared to most
sports, very little skill or technique involved in cycling. You and
the following posters have identified some of the more difficult
moments in a bike race, but c'mon - 98% of the sport is turning the
pedals. That's one of the best things about cycling. You can start
at any age and enjoy it, and if you have the proper genetics and
training you will be competitive with your age cohort. In almost all
other sports that simply isn't true, because the techniques need
constant practice and many of them are difficult to master. I would
say that for soccer, basketball, tennis, football, baseball, and many
more, starting early is a big advantage. Not necessary for cycling,
running, perhaps swimming, and the other aerobic oriented sports.

And if you don't believe me, watch a group of cyclists try to play a
pickup basketball game.

UHH! Ever watch a team of pro basketball players try to race bikes?
I think you just don't understand.
Every sport has specific skills that must be mastered to be
successfull. Good genes and conditioning may get you on the field but
won't get you on the podium. Cycling has real skills that take time to
master. If you think it's only about turning pedals you have very
little experience in competitive cycling.

Did you ever watch the TV shows where pro atheltes compete in events
not their own. Most are pretty funny looking. These are great athletes
in great shape and they can not transiton to the "new" sports.

MortDubois said:

I don't
think that your average pro football or basketball player could hang
with Lance over 3 weeks of racing,

That's an understatement. There is no pro football or basketball
player who could hang with Lance in a race. There aren't that many
pro cyclists who could hang with Lance.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:18:34 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,

Terry Morse said:

MortDubois said:

I don't
think that your average pro football or basketball player could hang
with Lance over 3 weeks of racing,

That's an understatement. There is no pro football or basketball
player who could hang with Lance in a race.

\szip
.. . . or Jeannie Longo.

There's probably not many, if any, pro football or basketball players
who could hang with Jobst on one of his excursions.

You'd probably drop them on the first good climb.

Most any working courier on the street could beat them cross town.

So if it's not skill as claimed by some or strength as evidenced by
obvious examples, what is it? Spirit?

I'd like to believe it's all three combined with speed and smarts in
the same ratios as makes a winning prize fighter.
--
zk

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Mort Dubois said:

Compared to most sports, very little skill or technique involved in
cycling.

I see you haven't take the time to watch a bicycle race, on a track
or on the road. In many bicycle races the top riders are fairly equal
in physical power and speed while the one who knows when to apply that
power, how to intimidate and cajole the others by suitable efforts,
will win the race. Understanding how to sense the strengths and
weaknesses of other racers, "reading the field" is a major part of
bicycle racing.

In contrast, wannabe racers believe there are secret pedaling or
breathing styles that riders use to win. This belief, as yours, masks
their inability to see that those who win races are often both more
astute in sizing up the opposition AND are better trained.

Besides that, not getting too close to unskilled riders in races
prevents crashes. Last year Lance Armstrong took a detour in the
rough when the man he was following slipped on a slick tar filled
crack in the road. His bicycle handling skills enabled him to get
back on the road over rough terrain.

What gave you the impression that racing and bicycle handling require
little skill? Do you ride, and where?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

I think that "compared to most sports" this is a pretty reasonable
assessment. I think I already defended this assertion in another
newsgroup at length, so just a few notes:

-there is a considerable tactical element to cycling. If you'll permit
me the distinction, this effort is almost entirely strategic and mental;
indeed, in many bike teams the race strategy is handled by the DS in the
team car. This is as opposed to on-bike skills or techniques.

-some forms of running are about the only other sports with less
emphasis on skill drills or technique training. A serious cyclist
devotes almost all of their time to conditioning exercises, and almost
none (outside of the simple act of riding the bike through all those
conditioning exercises) to skill enhancement. By comparison, most sports
put a strong emphasis on technique: team sport players practice skills
incessantly.

-if you had to describe the anti-cycling sport, it would probably be
somewhere in the realm of bowling, darts or golf: sports where the
athletic exertion and conditioning requirements are very low, but which
consist almost entirely of practiced physical technique. All three
sports also have almost no tactical considerations (golf, maybe a
little, in terms of "do I play it safe or shoot over the water hazard?"😉

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Ryan Cousineau said:

All three
sports also have almost no tactical considerations (golf, maybe a
little, in terms of "do I play it safe or shoot over the water hazard?"😉

you vastly underestimate this aspect of golf. to watch an "informal"
saturday morning round of golf between the consulting company ceo and a
fortune 500 cto is to witness a master tactician at work. often quite
breathtaking in its subtlety.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,

David Reuteler said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

All three
sports also have almost no tactical considerations (golf, maybe a
little, in terms of "do I play it safe or shoot over the water hazard?"😉

you vastly underestimate this aspect of golf. to watch an "informal"
saturday morning round of golf between the consulting company ceo and a
fortune 500 cto is to witness a master tactician at work. often quite
breathtaking in its subtlety.

Hee hee! The consultant must be terribly skilled to make sure that when
they throw the game, nobody notices.

But seriously, that's more of a frame narrative than a part of the game.
It's like saying that Simeoni's feud with Armstrong was part of the Tour
de France.

Er,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.