todays Sydney morning Herald supplement

[Jack Russell]

Page 49 bicycle travel by trips

shows 1991, 1999, 2000

Weekdays gradually dropping, weekenddays climbing significantly
--
Remove norubbish to reply

 

[dewatf]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:01:15 +1000, Jack Russell wrote:

> Page 49 bicycle travel by trips
>
> shows 1991, 1999, 2000
>
> Weekdays gradually dropping, weekenddays climbing significantly

Yep.

Though since 2002 there has been a rise in cycling, as petrol prices rose
and the trains became unreliable, then slower and more crowded.

Over the last two years the RTA figures show that commuters on the 3 main
cycle routes into the CDB (Pyrmont Bridge, Harbour Bridge and Anzac Pde)
rose 20%. Though that was upto 2460/day. Which is slightly more than the
number of cars one lane carries in one hour.

dewatf.

 

[flyingdutch]

hmmm. what could be the difference between Syd and Melb to make people think riding aint aint an option on weekdays...

 

[ritcho]

hmmm. what could be the difference between Syd and Melb to make people think riding aint aint an option on weekdays...

That's easy - Sydney has hills, less on and off road cycle facilities leading to the city and when you get to the city, you're dumped into narrow, clogged streets. Compare with Melbourne, which has cycle lanes and paths streaming into the CBD from all directions, as well as nice wide streets when you get there. Evidently the lack of hills more than offsets the lack of warmth on cold winter mornings!

R

PS. It didn't stop me when I lived there, but I'm sure it would make a difference to the marginal commuter.

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:01:33 +1000
ritcho <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> That's easy - Sydney has hills, less on and off road cycle facilities
> leading to the city and when you get to the city, you're dumped into
> narrow, clogged streets. Compare with Melbourne, which has cycle lanes
> and paths streaming into the CBD from all directions, as well as nice
> wide streets when you get there. Evidently the lack of hills more than
> offsets the lack of warmth on cold winter mornings!
>
> PS. It didn't stop me when I lived there, but I'm sure it would make a
> difference to the marginal commuter.

Didn't stop me once I'd made the decision to go recumbent, but it was
why I didn't consider cycle commuting at all for years. The cheap MTB
I had was Ok for Merrylands/Silverwater which only has one hill, but
I'd never have considered it for Campsie/North Sydney.

A friend's experience riding Campie/Lucas Heights on his Greenspeed
bike made me decide I *could* do it.

It's bloody daunting though! I took the train most of the way the
first couple of times, but for most people that's not an option as the
trains are so crowded.

Having a copy of Bike It helped so I knew the more bike friendly
routes. (Although the author's idea of "hill" and mine are still
rather far apart....)

Zebee

 

[Snuffy]

That's easy - Sydney has hills....

Eh? So what does Melbourne have? I'll admit that I don't know Sydney very well (so have no basis of comparison), but the eastern 'burbs of Melb isn't exactly flat....

 

[TimC]

On 2006-07-25, ritcho (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> flyingdutch Wrote:
>> hmmm. what could be the difference between Syd and Melb to make people
>> think riding aint aint an option on weekdays...
>
> That's easy - Sydney has hills, less on and off road cycle facilities

Pffft.

Inner west (Uni Sydney) to outer inner west (dulwich Hill) was much
flatter than say Chadstone to Hawthorn, or Surrey Hills to Inner city.

--
TimC
Sign on door of computing lecturer: "If your project is 90% right,
I will give you a distinction, your employer will fire you." -- Zebee

 

[Duncan]

flyingdutch wrote:
> hmmm. what could be the difference between Syd and Melb to make people
> think riding aint aint an option on weekdays...

How about the abuse normally copped?

Something about yesterday (or this week... I think it's school getting
back and the roads becoming more clogged again => driver frustration).
I got almost run over twice (always expecting that, so easy to avoid)
and almost road-raged on the way home last night.

duncan

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on 25 Jul 2006 18:53:53 -0700
Duncan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Something about yesterday (or this week... I think it's school getting
> back and the roads becoming more clogged again => driver frustration).
> I got almost run over twice (always expecting that, so easy to avoid)
> and almost road-raged on the way home last night.

I only had one day of increased traffic, seems back to low levels now.

Lots of people are waiting for me to give them room, they aren't
barging at roundabouts, only the occasional "I will enter the street
in front of that bicycle so they have to stop at the bottom of the
hill to avoid me" types.

On the whole my commute is abuse and idjut free. I wonder if the
prices have driven the "I don't want to be driving but I have to"
types away and they are now being bastards to station attendants and
bus drivers?

Zebee

 

[Random Data]

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:54:34 +1000, beerwolf wrote:

> Sydney Uni to Dulwich Hill is ok, and so is Anzac Parade from southeast
> to the CBD. But for steep, try some of the roads in Annandale down to
> The Crescent, bits of Balmain, Pyrmont, and heaps of places around
> the eastern suburbs and north of the harbour.

OK, I don't know the inner west *that* well, but I really can't think of
anything really nasty. East and North, no problem, and there are a few
interesting roads around Sutho as well.

I keep meaning to find out what the actual gradient of Rothwell Rd
Turramurra is. It certainly feels steeper than the bottom of Fullers Rd in
Chatswood. Somewhere I saw William Henry listed as the steepest street in
Sydney, but it's quite short and doesn't feel as bad as either of those.

Of course, if you include firetrails then there are some doozies around.

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
"The problem with people whose minds are in the gutter is
that they keep blocking my periscope."

 

[beerwolf]

TimC wrote:

>> flyingdutch Wrote:
>>> hmmm. what could be the difference between Syd and Melb to make people
>>> think riding aint aint an option on weekdays...
>>
>> That's easy - Sydney has hills, less on and off road cycle facilities
>
> Pffft.
>
> Inner west (Uni Sydney) to outer inner west (dulwich Hill) was much
> flatter than say Chadstone to Hawthorn, or Surrey Hills to Inner city.

Sydney Uni to Dulwich Hill is ok, and so is Anzac Parade from southeast
to the CBD. But for steep, try some of the roads in Annandale down to
The Crescent, bits of Balmain, Pyrmont, and heaps of places around
the eastern suburbs and north of the harbour. Melbourne has nothing like
these in close. Though as has been mentioned, Melbourne has some
decent hills further out to the east.

In Sydney, it's worse for motor traffic too. For both geographical and
historical reasons, Sydney starts behind the eight ball for ease of
movement, compared with Melbourne and Adelaide.

Nevertheless I try to see the hills as a positive, and use them as
yardsticks to track the state of my fitness (long way to go yet). I love
commuting by bike - not least because it totally focuses my mind on
what I'm doing, rather than thinking stupid negative thoughts about
how other people are inconveniencing my journey, or fruitless
hypothesising about the debugging problem I had to leave last night.

I don't find motorists much of a hassle - the occasional goon calls
out a stupid remark and so on - but I've never (yet) seen any road
rage (directed at me, that is). Perhaps I've just been lucky so far, or
maybe it's the places I ride. My biggest ***** about Sydney would
be the carving up of the CBD into one-way streets. Depending
where you want to go, they can double a journey time, if you want
to stay legal.

--
beerwolf (remove numbers from email address)

 

[beerwolf]

Random Data wrote:
>
> OK, I don't know the inner west *that* well, but I really can't think of
> anything really nasty. East and North, no problem, and there are a few
> interesting roads around Sutho as well.
>
> I keep meaning to find out what the actual gradient of Rothwell Rd
> Turramurra is. It certainly feels steeper than the bottom of Fullers Rd in
> Chatswood. Somewhere I saw William Henry listed as the steepest street in
> Sydney, but it's quite short and doesn't feel as bad as either of those.

No, there's nothing really nasty (meaning both long and steep). William St
down to The Crescent in Annandale is reasonably steep but very short.
Trafalgar St is not quite so steep, but a bit longer. I find it hard to
believe
the bit about William Henry (in Pyrmont down to Wattle St). I'm sure
I have seen several worse on the northside. Walker St, North Sydney
springs to mind, but I haven't been there for a few months. Your criteria
for steepness are probably more exacting than mine. I'm not quite a fat
old *******, but am tubbier than I'd like to be.

--
beerwolf (remove numbers from email address)

 

[TimC]

On 2006-07-25, ritcho (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> flyingdutch Wrote:
>> hmmm. what could be the difference between Syd and Melb to make people
>> think riding aint aint an option on weekdays...
>
> That's easy - Sydney has hills, less on and off road cycle facilities
> leading to the city and when you get to the city, you're dumped into
> narrow, clogged streets. Compare with Melbourne, which has cycle lanes
> and paths streaming into the CBD from all directions, as well as nice
> wide streets when you get there. Evidently the lack of hills more than
> offsets the lack of warmth on cold winter mornings!

I forgot to mention -- Melbourne CBD looks flat until you try to pedal
400KG worth of pedicab and passengers around! Ike!

--
TimC
I read [.doc files] with "rm". All you lose is the microsoft-specific
font selections, the macro viruses and the luser babblings.
-- Gary "Wolf" Barnes

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:25:33 +1000
Random Data <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> OK, I don't know the inner west *that* well, but I really can't think of
> anything really nasty. East and North, no problem, and there are a few
> interesting roads around Sutho as well.

umm... do you describe yourself as a "non-cyclist, thinking about
commuting to work"?

In the context of this thread what you think of as "really nasty" isn't
the point. It's what people who don't ride or seldom ride think.

Zebee

 

[Parbs]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
> umm... do you describe yourself as a "non-cyclist, thinking about
> commuting to work"?

No, he's a nutter that has been know to do extra laps of hills instead
of patiently waiting at the top for everyone else to get to the top

> In the context of this thread what you think of as "really nasty" isn't
> the point. It's what people who don't ride or seldom ride think.
>

Parbs

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:41:50 GMT
Parbs <[email protected]> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>
>> umm... do you describe yourself as a "non-cyclist, thinking about
>> commuting to work"?
>
> No, he's a nutter that has been know to do extra laps of hills instead
> of patiently waiting at the top for everyone else to get to the top

Ah! I see a solution!

He should be waiting at the bottom of hills with a tow rope, offering
help to novice commuters. A win-win situation.

Zebee

 

[Random Data]

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:41:50 +0000, Parbs wrote:

> No, he's a nutter that has been know to do extra laps of hills instead
> of patiently waiting at the top for everyone else to get to the top

I'd make nasty comments about gears, except I've gone out of my way to
find steep things on a SS as well. At least I brought a bike appropriate
to the downhills we earned that day.

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
That which does not kill me, make me stranger
- Old Dragon Axiom

 

[Random Data]

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:49:57 +1000, beerwolf wrote:

> No, there's nothing really nasty (meaning both long and steep). William
> St down to The Crescent in Annandale is reasonably steep but very short.

That's the kind of thing I was thinking of. Enough to make you work, but
it wouldn't have put me off commuting. My first bike commute was Summer
Hill to USyd, but I'd been riding a *long* time before that. The North
Shore is just nasty for hills, though there are often quiet alternatives
that are nicer than the obvious routes.

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
Striker, listen, and you listen close: flying a plane is no different
than riding a bicycle just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the
spokes.