This morning's red light ********.

[Duncan]

I pulled up at a red light this morning and mr mountain biker who was
behind me started circling ready to blow the red. I said to him "Don't
run it, you make us all look like dickheads", he even asked for
clarification, so I told him again.

Didn 't stop him; he blew the light and it changed green before he'd
made it to the other side.

********!

(ps: I think he was trying to get past me 'cos I'd embarrased him up
the previous steep climb. Pity we parted ways at the lights).

Other interesting happenings on this morning's commute:
- two near doorings through Balmain.

On the up side, it was a beautiful ride in with the sun out and a nice
SW'ster behind me most of the way.

 

[Dan the free bike man]

Duncan wrote:
> Other interesting happenings on this morning's commute:
> - two near doorings through Balmain.
>
> On the up side, it was a beautiful ride in with the sun out and a nice
> SW'ster behind me most of the way.

Near doorings would be more dangerous then running a red?

Don't get me wrong I think red runners are dickheads too.

I think those near doorers are making parked motorists look like
dickheads. Or are those cyclists who continue to ride in the car door
lanes making cyclists look like dickheads?

Why play Russian Roulette with opening car doors?

Dan

 

[cfsmtb]

(ps: I think he was trying to get past me 'cos I'd embarrased him up
the previous steep climb. Pity we parted ways at the lights).

Pah! Ignore his silly ego plays & keep dropping him on the hill.

 

[warrwych]

I pulled up at a red light this morning and mr mountain biker who was
behind me started circling ready to blow the red. I said to him "Don't
run it, you make us all look like dickheads", he even asked for
clarification, so I told him again.

Didn 't stop him; he blew the light and it changed green before he'd
made it to the other side.

********!

(ps: I think he was trying to get past me 'cos I'd embarrased him up
the previous steep climb. Pity we parted ways at the lights).

Other interesting happenings on this morning's commute:
- two near doorings through Balmain.

On the up side, it was a beautiful ride in with the sun out and a nice
SW'ster behind me most of the way.

Something I noticed when I was in Sydney earlier this year: cars rolling into the intersection, against a red light, preempting the change to green. It was a very common occurence. So when cyclists do it, how different are they to drivers? (not condoning it, just observing the practice is common across both modes of transport).

 

[gumby]

warrwych wrote:
> Duncan Wrote:
> > I pulled up at a red light this morning and mr mountain biker who was
> > behind me started circling ready to blow the red. I said to him "Don't
> > run it, you make us all look like dickheads", he even asked for
> > clarification, so I told him again.
> >
> > Didn 't stop him; he blew the light and it changed green before he'd
> > made it to the other side.
> >
> > ********!
> >
> > (ps: I think he was trying to get past me 'cos I'd embarrased him up
> > the previous steep climb. Pity we parted ways at the lights).
> >
> > Other interesting happenings on this morning's commute:
> > - two near doorings through Balmain.
> >
> > On the up side, it was a beautiful ride in with the sun out and a nice
> > SW'ster behind me most of the way.
>
>
> Something I noticed when I was in Sydney earlier this year: cars
> rolling into the intersection, against a red light, preempting the
> change to green. It was a very common occurence. So when cyclists do
> it, how different are they to drivers? (not condoning it, just
> observing the practice is common across both modes of transport).
>
>
> --
> warrwych

Hypothetical
Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
intersection.
IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
Discuss.

 

[Tamyka Bell]

gumby wrote:
>
> warrwych wrote:
> > Duncan Wrote:
> > > I pulled up at a red light this morning and mr mountain biker who was
> > > behind me started circling ready to blow the red. I said to him "Don't
> > > run it, you make us all look like dickheads", he even asked for
> > > clarification, so I told him again.
> > >
> > > Didn 't stop him; he blew the light and it changed green before he'd
> > > made it to the other side.
> > >
> > > ********!
> > >
> > > (ps: I think he was trying to get past me 'cos I'd embarrased him up
> > > the previous steep climb. Pity we parted ways at the lights).
> > >
> > > Other interesting happenings on this morning's commute:
> > > - two near doorings through Balmain.
> > >
> > > On the up side, it was a beautiful ride in with the sun out and a nice
> > > SW'ster behind me most of the way.
> >
> >
> > Something I noticed when I was in Sydney earlier this year: cars
> > rolling into the intersection, against a red light, preempting the
> > change to green. It was a very common occurence. So when cyclists do
> > it, how different are they to drivers? (not condoning it, just
> > observing the practice is common across both modes of transport).
> >
> >
> > --
> > warrwych
>
> Hypothetical
> Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
> intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
> enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
> in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
> intersection.
> IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
> immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
> Discuss.

Unless there is a "turn left at any time with care," then I think it's
pretty stupid. I mean, why not just wait? I mean fair enough if you're
about to have a baby...

And your hypothetical is crazy anyway - when have you EVER seen car
drivers not jamming an intersection when gridlocked?

Also, is it a penile implant (impant?) or explant?

Tam

 

[Marx SS]

Hypothetical
...........
IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
Discuss.

No , of cource not.

 

[DaveB]

gumby wrote:
> Hypothetical
> Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
> intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
> enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
> in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
> intersection.
> IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
> immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
> Discuss.
>

Yep I have that one on my commute. Corner of Bridge Rd and Burnley St
(for Melburnians). Back in my red light running days I saw nothing wrong
with turning left against the red light. These days I have a more
relaxed attitude to my commute and never run reds including this one. In
your hypothetical I would see this as not particularly dangerous to the
cyclists (compared to some things we do, legal or not) but any action
against the signals has an impact.

The obvious one is frequently cited here that it angers motorists. But
from a motorist perspective, my concern is if I see someone do something
against the signals, I start wondering what they will do next, and that
cyclist becomes a distraction, eg. watching the cyclist rather than the
traffic up ahead which may affect both me and the cyclist.

DaveB

 

[Duncan]

Dan the free bike man wrote:
> I think those near doorers are making parked motorists look like
> dickheads. Or are those cyclists who continue to ride in the car door
> lanes making cyclists look like dickheads?
>
> Why play Russian Roulette with opening car doors?

I try not to.

I guess my post is a little misleading. When I say 'near doorings' I
mean idiot in car opening the door such that if I was more to the left,
I'd have been doored: which indicates to me that they didn't bother
looking before they opened their doors (or maybe they waited for the
right moment

Personally, I think these sort of incidents show what dickheads the
councils are. It's particularly weird down the main thoroughfare of
Balmain:
1/ inadequate width parking/cycle lane taken by parked cars (normal)
2/ To avoid dooring, closest safe distance to parked cars is on the
cycleway line marker
3/ Cycleway line markings have recently had cobblestones installed
under them (!)
4/ due to 3/, end up riding down the center of the road anyway.

 

[gumby]

DaveB wrote:
> gumby wrote:
> > Hypothetical
> > Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
> > intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
> > enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
> > in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
> > intersection.
> > IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
> > immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
> > Discuss.
> >
>
> Yep I have that one on my commute. Corner of Bridge Rd and Burnley St
> (for Melburnians). Back in my red light running days I saw nothing wrong
> with turning left against the red light. These days I have a more
> relaxed attitude to my commute and never run reds including this one. In
> your hypothetical I would see this as not particularly dangerous to the
> cyclists (compared to some things we do, legal or not) but any action
> against the signals has an impact.
>
> The obvious one is frequently cited here that it angers motorists. But
> from a motorist perspective, my concern is if I see someone do something
> against the signals, I start wondering what they will do next, and that
> cyclist becomes a distraction, eg. watching the cyclist rather than the
> traffic up ahead which may affect both me and the cyclist.
>
> DaveB

I guess my frustration on my commute is the cross traffic is going
nowhere, I'm stuck on the red turning left. I'm not about to set
records, but the difference in times between my cycle commute and the
same route done in a cage, done at the same time of day is 20 minutes.
If I were to dismount, walk two metres across the corner and remount in
the bike lane of the stuck traffic, and proceed carefully then surely
that sends a positive message about cycling and filtering through
traffic. If car drivers get upset by this safe means of covering the
city, then I'll get back in my car and contribute to the congestion,
which would they prefer?
Actually I don't mean that, that was an idle threat, I like riding my
bikes. The only factor that makes a car commute less painful is
listening to ABC's AM programme.

 

[TimC]

On 2006-08-11, gumby (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Hypothetical
> Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
> intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
> enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
> in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
> intersection.
> IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
> immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
> Discuss.

Get off the bike, wheel over to footfath. Place in bike lane, get on.

Otherwise, don't forget the other cyclist who may be blowing red
lights, and/or lane splitting, and just at the moment you turn,
appears from in between two cars and expects the bike lane not to be
occupied by someone who just blew the lights themselves. In other
words, look carefully and in between cars when doing something illegal
like that or jaywalking (how many times are you in the bike lane,
happily trundling along, and some idiot walks/runs across the road
without looking because the cars are not moving?).

--
TimC
If I sit here and stare at nothing long enough, people might think
I'm an engineer working on something.
-- S.R. McElroy

 

[gumby]

TimC wrote:
> On 2006-08-11, gumby (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > Hypothetical
> > Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
> > intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
> > enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
> > in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
> > intersection.
> > IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
> > immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
> > Discuss.
>
> Get off the bike, wheel over to footfath. Place in bike lane, get on.
>
> Otherwise, don't forget the other cyclist who may be blowing red
> lights, and/or lane splitting, and just at the moment you turn,
> appears from in between two cars and expects the bike lane not to be
> occupied by someone who just blew the lights themselves. In other
> words, look carefully and in between cars when doing something illegal
> like that or jaywalking (how many times are you in the bike lane,
> happily trundling along, and some idiot walks/runs across the road
> without looking because the cars are not moving?).
>
> --
> TimC
> If I sit here and stare at nothing long enough, people might think
> I'm an engineer working on something.
> -- S.R. McElroy

I like that term 'happily trundling along'.
But with defcon 3 perimeter threat warning systems activated.
Would that be alert but not alarmed? :-^

 

[jur]

Hypothetical
Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
intersection.
IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
Discuss.

In the US, it is legal to slip around a corner like that (in a car) once you check for traffic. I often wonder what it would take for local laws to have a sensible element introduced into them. Don't get me started on traffic lights that turn red for 1/2 second just to go through a cycle to let a car turn right. Why oh why can't the right turn arrow not turn green _without_ me having to stop when going straight? Is that so difficult, oh Melbourne traffic engineers? Pistols at dawn. You count to 10, I to 5.

 

[Aeek]

On 10 Aug 2006 19:14:06 -0700, "gumby" <[email protected]> wrote:

>If I were to dismount, walk two metres across the corner and remount in
>the bike lane of the stuck traffic, and proceed carefully then surely
>that sends a positive message about cycling and filtering through
>traffic. If car drivers get upset by this safe means of covering the

Its easier in the ACT since riding on footpaths means no dismounting,
but its a mixed message, the ramps are in the ped crossing so that can
mean crossing the stop line to exit; not a problem on the other side.
So you should jump the curb to make it 100% legal?

I have a short 'traffic calmed' section that I bypass via a convenient
ramp that serves a ped refuge and leave the footpath turning left by
the next lights.
I don't see using the ramp that happens to be in a ped crossing as an
issue, I'm entering the road not using the crossing.

 

[beerwolf]

Aeek wrote:
> On 10 Aug 2006 19:14:06 -0700, "gumby" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>If I were to dismount, walk two metres across the corner and remount in
>>the bike lane of the stuck traffic, and proceed carefully then surely
>>that sends a positive message about cycling and filtering through
>>traffic. If car drivers get upset by this safe means of covering the
>
> Its easier in the ACT since riding on footpaths means no dismounting,
> but its a mixed message, the ramps are in the ped crossing so that can
> mean crossing the stop line to exit; not a problem on the other side.
> So you should jump the curb to make it 100% legal?
>
> I have a short 'traffic calmed' section that I bypass via a convenient
> ramp that serves a ped refuge and leave the footpath turning left by
> the next lights.
> I don't see using the ramp that happens to be in a ped crossing as an
> issue, I'm entering the road not using the crossing.

I do this lots; it's legal and doesn't slow anyone down at all. It would
be a useful modification to the traffic law if all cyclists were allowed
to turn left through a red light (with care, after stopping, etc). Would
simplify the dismount, walk, remount rigmarole and inconvenience nobody.

--
beerwolf (remove numbers from email address)

 

[Skewer]

gumby wrote:
> warrwych wrote:
>
>>Duncan Wrote:
>>
>>>I pulled up at a red light this morning and mr mountain biker who was
>>>behind me started circling ready to blow the red. I said to him "Don't
>>>run it, you make us all look like dickheads", he even asked for
>>>clarification, so I told him again.
>>>
>>>Didn 't stop him; he blew the light and it changed green before he'd
>>>made it to the other side.
>>>
>>>********!
>>>
>>>(ps: I think he was trying to get past me 'cos I'd embarrased him up
>>>the previous steep climb. Pity we parted ways at the lights).
>>>
>>>Other interesting happenings on this morning's commute:
>>>- two near doorings through Balmain.
>>>
>>>On the up side, it was a beautiful ride in with the sun out and a nice
>>>SW'ster behind me most of the way.
>>
>>
>>Something I noticed when I was in Sydney earlier this year: cars
>>rolling into the intersection, against a red light, preempting the
>>change to green. It was a very common occurence. So when cyclists do
>>it, how different are they to drivers? (not condoning it, just
>>observing the practice is common across both modes of transport).
>>
>>
>>--
>>warrwych
>
>
> Hypothetical
> Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
> intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
> enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
> in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
> intersection.
> IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
> immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
> Discuss.
>

Answer is simple.
Dismount,
Takek two steps left onto corner footpath,
Take two steps foward onto bike lane,
Remount & ride on.
Objective acheived, no laws broken.

Skewer
--
--
Pete.B

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on 10 Aug 2006 18:26:25 -0700
gumby <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Bike stopped at red light, turning left. Immediately left in the
> intended direction of travel is a bike lane, completely beguilingly
> enticingly empty. Car vehicle traffic is locked in three lanes. Cars
> in the intersection are complying with the requirement not to jam the
> intersection.
> IF the cyclist carefully turns left and blows the red light, do they
> immediately have a penile impant appearing on their forehead?
> Discuss.
>

Cars sitting at red light.

Left lane in cross street appears empty. Car turns left. Good or
bad?

If bad, why good for bicycle?

Should all cyclists no matter their age, judgement ability, sobriety,
vision, or level of skill, be exempt from all road rules?


Zebee

 

[Theo Bekkers]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> Cars sitting at red light.
>
> Left lane in cross street appears empty. Car turns left. Good or
> bad?
>
> If bad, why good for bicycle?
>
> Should all cyclists no matter their age, judgement ability, sobriety,
> vision, or level of skill, be exempt from all road rules?

I've beeen thinking that for a couple of days now, but I thought it was
somone else's turn to be abused for recommending cyclists obey the law.

Cheers

Theo

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:57:59 +0800
Theo Bekkers <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've beeen thinking that for a couple of days now, but I thought it was
> somone else's turn to be abused for recommending cyclists obey the law.
>

oh I think there's room to look at all road rules and determine which
ones are sensible for which vehicles.

Which has already been done for bicycles in most places regarding
passing.

I can't see why red lights are something bikes should be exempted
from, because that's saying all cyclists are capable of making that
judgement, when the consequences for innocents when the judgement is
wrong are bad.

Zebee

 

[Duncan]

gumby wrote:
> If I were to dismount, walk two metres across the corner and remount in
> the bike lane of the stuck traffic, and proceed carefully then surely
> that sends a positive message about cycling and filtering through
> traffic.

Yup, I have no problem with this (even do it myself now and then).

But people, _please_, when you do this, look in the cycle lane. I
almost cleaned up a gumby (not you) this morning when turning left on a
green arrow because he thought he could shoot out from the footpath
onto the cycle lane without looking.

duncan