General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Thin vs fat

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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6 September 2004
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    Licquored up said:


    A woman at a bmi of 28 who has
    no abdominal fat is not at any significant health risk. She can be quite
    healthy if she exercises daily and eat healthy food. On the other hand, a
    woman with a bmi of 20, who never exercises and eats junk food is at a
    severe health risk.

    Unfit thin women fare better than fit[sic] fat women.

    Am J Epidemiol 2002 Nov 1;156(9):832-41
    Fitness and fatness as predictors of mortality from all causes and from
    cardiovascular disease in men and women in the lipid research clinics
    study.
    Stevens J, Cai J, Evenson KR, Thomas R.
    Department of Nutrition, School of Public Health, University of North
    Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599, USA. [email hidden]

    The relative size of the effects of fitness and fatness on longevity has
    been studied in only one cohort. The authors examined this issue using data
    from 2,506 women and 2,860 men in the Lipid Research Clinics Study. The
    mean age was 46.6 years in women and 45.1 years in men at baseline
    (1972-1976). Fitness was assessed using a treadmill test, and fatness was
    assessed as body mass index calculated from measured height and weight.
    Participants were followed for vital status through 1998. Hazard ratios
    were calculated using proportional hazard models that included covariates
    for age, education, smoking, alcohol intake, and the dietary Keys score.
    Fitness and fatness were both associated with mortality from all causes and
    from cardiovascular disease. For mortality from all causes, the adjusted
    hazard ratios were 1.32 among the fit-fat, 1.30 among the unfit-not fat,
    and 1.57 among the unfit-fat women compared with fit-not fat women. Among
    men the same hazard ratios were 1.44, 1.25, and 1.49. There were no
    significant interactions between fitness and fatness in either men or
    women. The authors conclude that both fitness and fatness are risk factors
    for mortality, and that being fit does not completely reverse the increased
    risk associated with excess adiposity.

    ***

    NR

    http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant.html
    http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant2.html
    http://www.pat-acceptance.org/kookrant3.html

    If I catch you busting into a mass and vilifying a church, the last thing
    you'll hear in your entire life, will be the ratatatatat of an automatic.
    - --Steve Chaney to Mark Ira Kaufman
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    Young Mr. Chaney, the man who has told me that he wants to murder me and
    sodomize women in my family, has said, repeatedly, that advocates for
    choice had vandalized churches.
    - --Mark Ira Kaufman
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    she probably has to have her picture taken by satellite because no normal
    camera can fit all that whale blubber into one picture.
    - --Steve Chaney
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    Excessively fat women look ugly. It is impractical to try and have sex when
    she's 100lbs overweight and the weight is all fat - but most women ain't
    that big.
    - --Steve Chaney
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    You of course do know what a lot of Asian women prefer, right? Besides,
    after [censored] a cute asian chick, experience tells me it isn't all that
    except that she looks good on your arm. In bed it ain't much at all. If the
    lights go out, any guy whose hormones are more fixed on performance than
    looks, is going to go to sleep right there and then.
    - --Steve Chaney
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    Clarice and Allisson were well beyond a BMI of 25 in their pictures where
    they were called cows.
    - --Steve Chaney
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    If Dutton knocked on Steve's door and Steve shot him in the face, I would
    really not care.
    - --Crash Street Kidd about Steve Chaney
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    Stephen A Chaney admits to sodomizing his daughter if he forges me now.

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  2. The use of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) Clinical Guidelines
    to guide assessment and treatment of overweight and obese patients is the
    source of considerable debate. The guidelines rely, in part, on research
    with methodological problems.

    Full Text (1704 words)
    Copyright Decker Periodicals, Inc. Mar/Apr 1999 [Headnote]
    ABSTRACT The use of the National Institutes of Health (NIH)
    Clinical Guidelines to guide assessment and treatment of overweight and
    obese patients is the source of considerable debate. The guidelines rely, in
    part, on research with methodological problems.The standard treatments for
    obesity outlined in the Guidelines have not proven to be successful long
    term. Evidence suggests obesity may be a result of biochemical defects, not
    eating and exercise patterns. Dieting, one of the recommended treatments, is
    a known risk factor for development of an eating disorder. Further, there is
    no conclusive evidence that weight loss improves health outcomes. Nutrition
    education professionals need to develop approaches that improve health
    independently of weight loss for Americans seeking to lose weight. gATE
    31:116-118, 1999)

    As nutritionists involved in promoting the overall health of
    Americans, we are concerned that the National Institutes of Health (NIH)
    Clinical Guidelines may cause more harm than good. Although the prevalence
    of overweight and obesity is clearly increasing in the U.S., we question
    whether the Guidelines provide guidance to practitioners about how and when
    to treat obesity.

    The Clinical Guidelines are derived from the examination of 800
    references, which include well-designed randomized clinical trials with
    large numbers of subjects, but also studies with limited numbers of
    subjects, post hoc studies, meta-- analyses, studies with somewhat
    inconsistent outcomes and/or specialized populations, and even uncontrolled
    or nonrandomized trials and observational studies. Interestingly, the
    editors of the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), who reviewed the same
    body of literature, came to vastly different conclusions, summarized in a
    January 1, 1998 editorial entitled Losing Weight-An Ill fated New Year's
    Resolution.1

    The Clinical Guidelines recommend standard, widely used treatments
    (i.e., diet therapy, physical activity, behavior modification, pharmacologic
    therapy, and surgery). Although standard treatments may be successful
    initially, it is well documented that most people who lose weight regain
    that weight within 5 years.2-5 A growing body of evidence suggests that most
    forms of obesity are more likely the result of biochemical defects rather
    than due to consumption of excess calories.6 Furthermore, the very
    references cited by the Guidelines to support the recommended initial weight
    loss goal of 10% of body weight actually show that less than half of the
    participants of those trials could meet this goal.-10 In other words, we
    have no effective long-term treatments for obesity, and none are on the
    horizon.

    We are also concerned that the Clinical Guidelines ignore what NEJM
    editors described as "the dark side to this national preoccupation" (i.e.,
    body dissatisfaction among women and teenagers, the negative consequences of
    dieting, and the prevalence of eating disorders among adolescents and young
    women). Dieting is a recognized risk factor for the development of an eating
    disorder.11-13 A number of researchers have concluded that dieting is
    strongly associated with the development of bulimia.14-16 Furthermore,
    caloric restriction leads to bingeing behavior.17,18 The Guidelines, in
    recommending that weight maintenance therapy be continued indefinitely, will
    escalate our national preoccupation with weight and will exacerbate its
    "dark side."

    The association between overweight and morbidity or mortality is far
    from certain. Epidemiologic studies have indicated that higher body weights
    were neutral or positively associated with longevity.19-23 Of particular
    concern to us is that the Guidelines target Body Mass Indices (BMIs) of 25
    and above as being associated with "high" relative risk. We agree that
    increasing weight and mortality are related at very high weights, but for
    BMIs below 28, the relative risk of mortality increases only slightly.1 We
    lack evidence that losing the 6 or 7 pounds that would result in a change in
    BMI from 26 to 25 actually reduces risk. Even at higher BMIs, there is no
    conclusive evidence that weight loss reduces risk. In a comprehensive review
    of epidemiologic studies, no support was found for the commonly held notion
    that weight loss, even among the overweight, leads to improved health and
    increased longevity.24 Furthermore, weight loss may increase mortality.25,26
    Barnard et al.27 reported that obese men and women significantly reduced
    blood pressure and serum lipid, insulin, and glucose levels by changing diet
    and exercise habits with little, if any, change in body weight. Barlow et
    al.28 have shown that, in fact, lower risk of mortality has been found to be
    positively associated with fitness, but not with fatness. These researchers
    found that moderate- and high-fit men in BMI categories greater than or
    equal to 27 had lower death rates than their low-fit counterparts. Low-fit
    men with BMIs less than 27 were three times more likely to die young than
    the fatter men who exercised regularly.

    Are the Clinical Guidelines an appropriate prescription for treating
    overweight and obese patients? We think not. First, health benefits can be
    achieved without weight loss. Second, encouraging weight loss, especially
    through dieting, is not likely to be effective and may result in a host of
    additional physical and psychological problems.29

    We encourage our professional colleagues to join us in developing and
    testing "approaches that can produce health benefits independently of weight
    loss [which] may be the best way to improve the physical and psychological
    health of Americans seeking to lose weight."30 We conclude that weight loss
    is not necessarily the answer to "How can fat people be healthy?"

    The Division of Nutrition and Weight Realities endorses the New Weight
    Paradigm.31 This paradigm has evolved through recognition of the limited
    success of weight loss interventions. It challenges the medicalization of
    obesity as demonstrated in the NIH Guidelines.We advocate acceptance of
    one's self, as well as one's body size and shape, and we urge direct pursuit
    of health and happiness, rather than viewing slenderness as a prerequisite
    for these goals.

    [Reference]
    REFERENCES

    [Reference]
    1. Kassirer JP, Angell M. Losing weight: an ill-fated new year's
    resolution. N Engl J Med 1998;338:52-4.
    2. Garner MG, Wooley SC. Confronting the failure of behavioral
    and dietary treatments for obesity. Clin Psychol Rev 1991;11:729-80. 3.
    Leibel RL, Rosenbaum M, Hirsch J. Changes in energy expenditure resulting
    from altered body weight. N Engl J Med 1995;332:621-8. 4. Wickelgren I.
    Obesity: how big a problem? Science 1998;280:1364-7. 5. Wooley SC, Garner
    DG. Obesity treatment: the high cost of false hope.
    JAm Diet Assoc 1991;91:1248-51.
    6. Schwartz MW, Seeley RJ.The new biology of body weight
    regulation. JAm Diet Assoc 1997;97:54-8.
    7. The Trials of Hypertension Prevention Collaborative Research
    Group. Effects of weight loss and sodium reduction intervention on blood
    pressure and hypertension incidence in overweight people with high-normal
    blood pressure. Arch Intern Med 1997;157:657-67.

    [Reference]
    8. Wadden TA, Sternberg KA, Letizia KA, Stunkard AJ, Foster
    GD.Treatment of obesity by very low calorie diet, behavior therapy, and
    their combination: a five year perspective. Int J Obes 1989;13:39-46. 9.
    Wadden TA, Stunkard AJ. Controlled trial of very low calorie diet, behavior
    therapy, and their combination in the treatment of obesity. J Consult Clin
    Psychol 1986;54:482-8.
    10. Stamler MA, Stamler J, Grimm R, et al. Nutritional therapy
    for high blood pressure: final report of a four-year randomized controlled
    trial-the Hypertension Control Group. JAMA 1987;257:1484-91. 11. Cooper Z.
    The development and maintenance of eating disorders. In: Brownell KD,
    Fairburn CG, eds. Eating disorders and obesity: a comprehensive handbook.
    NewYork: Guilford,1995:199-211. 12. Grodner M."Forever dieting": chronic
    dieting syndrome. J Nutr Educ 1992;24:207-10.

    [Reference]
    13. Wilfey DE, Rodin J. Cultural influences on eating disorders.
    In: Brownell KD, Fairburn CG, eds. Eating disorders and obesity: a
    comprehensive handbook. New York: Guilford,1995:199-211. 14. Marchi M, Cohen
    P. Early childhood eating behaviors and adolescent eating disorders. J Am
    Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatr 1990;29:112-7. 15. Patton GC,Johnson-Sabine
    E,Wood K, Mann AH,Wakeling A. Abnormal eating attitudes in London
    schoolgirls-a prospective epidemiological study: outcome at 12-month
    follow-up. Psychol Med 1990;20:383-94.
    16. Brunner RL, St. Jeor ST, Scott BJ, et al. Dieting and
    disordered eating correlates of weight fluctuation in normal and obese
    adults. Eating Disord 1994;2:341-55.
    17. Keys A, Brozek J, Henschel A, Michelson O, Taylor HL. The
    biology of human starvation. Vol 1. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota
    Press, 1950.

    [Reference]
    18. Garfinkel P, Kaplan AS. Starvation based perpetuating
    mechanisms in anorexia nervosa and bulimia. Int J Eating Disord
    1985;4:65263. 19. Keil JE, Sutherland SE, Knapp RG, Lackland DT, Gazes PC,
    Tyroler HA. Mortality rates and risk factors for coronary disease in black
    as compared with white men and women. N Engl J Med 1993;329:73-8. 20.
    Menotti A, Keys A, Kromhout D, et al. Intercohort differences in coronary
    heart disease mortality in the 25-year follow-up of the seven countries
    study. Eur J Epidemiol 1993;9:527-36. 21. Rissenen A, Knekt P, Heliovaara M,
    et al. Weight and mortality in
    Finnish women.J Clin Epidemiol 1991;44:787-95. 22. Troiano RP,
    Frongillo Jr. EA, Sobal J, Levitsky DA. The relationship between body weight
    and mortality: a quantitative analysis of combined information from existing
    studies. Int J Obes 1996;20:63-75. 23. Kabat GC, Wynder EL. Body mass index
    and lung cancer risk. Am J Epidemiol 1992;135:769-74.
    24. Lee IM, Paffenbarger RS. Is weight loss hazardous? Nutr Rev
    1996;54:S116-24.
    Andres R, Muller DC, Sorkin JD. Long-term effects of change in
    body weight on all-cause mortality: a review. Ann Intern Med
    1993;119:737-43.

    [Reference]
    26. Pamuk ER,Williamson DF Madans J, Serdula MK, Byers T Weight
    loss and mortality in a national cohort of adults, 1971-1987. Am J Epidemiol
    1992;136:686-97.
    27. Barnard RJ, Ugianskis EJ, Martin DA, Inkeles SB. Role of
    diet and exercise in the management of hyperinsulinemia and associated
    atherosclerotic risk factors. Am J Cardiol 1992;69:4404.

    [Reference]
    28. Barlow CE, Kohl III HW, Gibbons LW, Blair SN. Physical
    fitness, mortality and obesity. Int J Obes 1995;19(Suppl 4):S41-4. 29.
    Polivy J. Psychological consequences of food restriction. J Am Diet Assoc
    1996;96:589-92.
    30. National Institutes of Health Technology Assessment
    Conference. Methods for voluntary weight loss and control. Ann Intern Med
    1992;116:942-9.

    [Reference]
    3:1 Robson JI, Hoerr SL, Petersmarck KA, Anderson JV .Redefining
    success in obesity intevention: the new paradigm. J Am Diet Assoc
    1995;95:422-3.

    [Author Affiliation]
    MARCIA HERRIN,1 ELLEN PARHAM, 2 JOANNA IKEDA, 3 ADRIENNE WHITE,
    4 AND LAUREL BRANEN5

    "NR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    Licquored up said:


    A woman at a bmi of 28 who has
    no abdominal fat is not at any significant health risk. She can be quite
    healthy if she exercises daily and eat healthy food. On the other hand, a
    woman with a bmi of 20, who never exercises and eats junk food is at a
    severe health risk.

    Unfit thin women fare better than fit[sic] fat women.

    Am J Epidemiol 2002 Nov 1;156(9):832-41
    Fitness and fatness as predictors of mortality from all causes and from
    cardiovascular disease in men and women in the lipid research clinics
    study.
    Stevens J, Cai J, Evenson KR, Thomas R.
    Department of Nutrition, School of Public Health, University of North
    Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599, USA. [email hidden]

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