The School Run

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

From this weeks Ham & High...

---------------------

WHIFF OF HYPOCRISY ON 4X4S

There is more than a whiff of hypocrisy from readers who rushed to
criticise me for driving a 4x4 (Letters September 24 & October 1).
Did none of your correspondents ever put their own and their families'
interests before those of others>
When I take my children to school, the road is so jammed with 4x4s
that I have to double park. So why no word of support in your columns
from the other drivers?
Mr Guy King (October 1) is right that, in an ideal world,drivers
should not use mirrors to reverse, but I am not able to see through
the rear window when my boys are leaping around in the back.

Mariana Vellacek, Talbot Rd, London N6

Round here we use the technical term, Silly Cow.

--
Glad to be up north
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

AndyMorris said:

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

From this weeks Ham & High...

---------------------

WHIFF OF HYPOCRISY ON 4X4S

There is more than a whiff of hypocrisy from readers who rushed to
criticise me for driving a 4x4 (Letters September 24 & October 1).
Did none of your correspondents ever put their own and their
families' interests before those of others>
When I take my children to school, the road is so jammed with 4x4s
that I have to double park. So why no word of support in your columns
from the other drivers?
Mr Guy King (October 1) is right that, in an ideal world,drivers
should not use mirrors to reverse, but I am not able to see through
the rear window when my boys are leaping around in the back.

Mariana Vellacek, Talbot Rd, London N6

Round here we use the technical term, Silly Cow.

Not you, ere :-)

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

Helen Deborah Vecht vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

but I am not able to see through the rear
window when my boys are leaping around in the back.

Safety not really a prime concern either then ... 😉

--
Paul ...

(8(|) Homer Rules !!!

"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Following on from James Annan's message. . .

Quoted message said:

IMO the most (only?) interesting thing about this study is the evidence
that the non-walkers do more exercise outside school hours.

That might be because mummy who drives the dears to school takes them to
ballet and pony riding whereas estate kids who live on top of the school
and walk muck around.

As far as does the research prove 'not useful' the obvious response is
if it conditions children to going out in the winter with the gear and
the guts to do so then there is a slight chance that they will pick-up a
lifetime habit of outdoor activity rather than a fear that a bit of
drizzle will scar them for life.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the deckchair business folded
[email hidden]
2 Tees Close, Witham, Essex.
Gravity beer in Essex <http://www.eminent.demon.co.uk>

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jo" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

< Whether children walk to and from primary school makes no difference
to their total activity.

Quoted message said:

So all the time and energy I used during my children's primary school

years

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

walking them to school and back, a mile and a half each way, was a waste

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

effort? I don't think so.
Jo

My Mum put on a stone the year my baby brother went up to Senior School.
Of course, parents end up walking twice as far as kids...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

The other reason I walked my kids to school (apart from the fact that I
don't drive) was a feeling that if you take them everywhere in the car at
that age, you end up with offspring who think they should have been born
with (motorized) wheels. As teenagers our children have more independence
than most of their friends, being capable of sorting out ways to get about
without adult help. And of course they get valuable exercise at the same
time.
An argument I heard some time ago went along the lines of 'We can't let
our children walk to school, it's too dangerous'. This totally misses two
points the major danger is caused by parents driving children to school, and
the fact that the majority of parents do have legs! The view seems to be
that children can either walk alone, or be taken by parents in the car - no
mention of the possibility of parents walking with the children!
Sorry to go on - this is a bit of a pet topic of mine - I could get on
my soap box for hours!
Jo

Quoted message said:

An argument I heard some time ago went along the lines of 'We can't let
our children walk to school, it's too dangerous'.

I live in a rural area and there's no way I would have allowed Nathan to walk
to school. No footpaths for 99% of the way there, no streetlighting, narrow
roads, reduced visibility, plus an 11 mile-journey there & back when it was
high school. Now, he's 26 miles there & back to sixth form - again, along roads
where there is no streetlighting, no footpaths... He cycles and I'm happy with
that - he cycles safely and assertively as he's been taught to do. Walking to
school is *much easier* when school and home is in an urban area - rural areas
are an entirely different kettle of fish.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
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dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

An argument I heard some time ago went along the lines of 'We can't let
our children walk to school, it's too dangerous'.

I live in a rural area and there's no way I would have allowed Nathan to walk
to school. No footpaths for 99% of the way there, no streetlighting, narrow
roads, reduced visibility, plus an 11 mile-journey there & back when it was
high school. Now, he's 26 miles there & back to sixth form - again, along roads
where there is no streetlighting, no footpaths... He cycles and I'm happy with
that - he cycles safely and assertively as he's been taught to do. Walking to
school is *much easier* when school and home is in an urban area - rural areas
are an entirely different kettle of fish.

I agree. Its 4 miles each way for our girls and will next year go up to
12 miles because of the Cambridgeshire sixth form college system that
concentrates schooling in a limited number of locations around the
county. Next year they will be taking train and bus but that's because
we are lucky in having a station in the village with a regular service
to Cambridge although we are unlucky in that bikes are barred on the
train at peak hours so they will have to take the bus at the other end.
The cost of the train and bus will be many times the cost if we drove
them. As for the present they could cycle except there is a very
dangerous crossing on a very busy road part way and its rather a lonely
country road for two teenage girls to cycle alone on a regular schedule.

We do use a small fuel efficient car for the school run though.

Tony

Tony Raven <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am not a parent but many posters here are.

Median distance to school is given as 0.7km
Median walking time to school is given as 6 minutes

Do ordinary 5 year olds *usually* walk to school at 7kph (>4mph)? This
is something I as an 'normal!?' person doubt. My recollections of
walking my brother from school (he's 19 years my junior) are that we
usually pootled at around 3mph, though we could put on speed.

Quoted message said:

The average speed is not the median distance divided by the median time.

Quoted message said:

Tony

I know, but it should roughly point in that direction. Given that kids
make 9 or 10 school trips per week, an underestimate of walking time
will seriously underestimate activity time.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

James Annan <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

I wonder what the accelerometer measures during a car journey?

'my boys leaping around in the back' ;-)

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

"Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Helen Deborah Vecht vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but I am not able to see through the rear
window when my boys are leaping around in the back.

Quoted message said:

Safety not really a prime concern either then ... 😉

My thoughts precisely! Still pondering a retort...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

"Jo" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Sorry to go on - this is a bit of a pet topic of mine - I could get on
my soap box for hours!
Jo

You're preaching to the choir!

Mum walked brother to school throughout his primary years. It was their
special quality time together and offers of lifts were usually politely
rejected as Sam wanted his time with Mum.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

On 9/10/04 10:34 am, in article
[email hidden],

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers said:

Quoted message said:

An argument I heard some time ago went along the lines of 'We can't let
our children walk to school, it's too dangerous'.

I live in a rural area and there's no way I would have allowed Nathan to walk
to school. No footpaths for 99% of the way there, no streetlighting, narrow
roads, reduced visibility, plus an 11 mile-journey there & back when it was
high school. Now, he's 26 miles there & back to sixth form - again, along
roads
where there is no streetlighting, no footpaths... He cycles and I'm happy with
that - he cycles safely and assertively as he's been taught to do. Walking to
school is *much easier* when school and home is in an urban area - rural areas
are an entirely different kettle of fish.

Indeed. But how many of the school attending population live far enough away
from school that non-motorised transport is not viable?
Your argument is 'I can't let him walk to school, it is too far'. Now it is
not to far as you allude to frequently as he is a competent and keen
cyclist.

It's those kids who could walk but don't that are the worry.

Yes, my kids (p2 and p4) walk to school. It is literally just 400m round the
corner. They have done it unsupervised a few times recently as well. I would
hope that any kid in p5 would have sufficient road skills to be able to walk
to school unsupervised along a reasonably safe route.

...d

Tony Raven said:

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

This week's BMJ features a paper
(http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/bmj;329/7470/832) which
concludes:

< Whether children walk to and from primary school makes no difference
to their total activity. This does not justify the adverse publicity
given to the school run nor the government's perception of the school
run's impact. There may be other benefits from walking children to their
neighbourhood school, but physical activity does not appear to be one of
them. >

Oh Dear...

Is the Oh Dear because you've read the paper and have criticisms of the
methodology and data analysis or because you don't like the conclusions
they have reached?

The Oh Dear may also be the anticipation that a much-simplified, and possibly
twisted, version of the paper will be trotted out again and again by the pro-car
lobby without consideration of all the caveats mentioned here. More fruitless
arguments while the Real Problem (tm) is left ignored.

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 09:11:10 GMT, "Jo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jo" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

> < Whether children walk to and from primary school makes no difference
> to their total activity.

Quoted message said:

So all the time and energy I used during my children's primary school

years

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

walking them to school and back, a mile and a half each way, was a waste

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

effort? I don't think so.
Jo

My Mum put on a stone the year my baby brother went up to Senior School.
Of course, parents end up walking twice as far as kids...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

The other reason I walked my kids to school (apart from the fact that I
don't drive) was a feeling that if you take them everywhere in the car at
that age, you end up with offspring who think they should have been born
with (motorized) wheels. As teenagers our children have more independence
than most of their friends, being capable of sorting out ways to get about
without adult help. And of course they get valuable exercise at the same
time.
An argument I heard some time ago went along the lines of 'We can't let
our children walk to school, it's too dangerous'. This totally misses two
points the major danger is caused by parents driving children to school, and
the fact that the majority of parents do have legs! The view seems to be
that children can either walk alone, or be taken by parents in the car - no
mention of the possibility of parents walking with the children!
Sorry to go on - this is a bit of a pet topic of mine - I could get on
my soap box for hours!
Jo

Me too ............ I used to drive the little ones to primary school
mornings and evenings in the school bus (PCV drivers in Lincolnshire -
indeed nationally are like hens teeth) until I requested a parent NOT
park his car in the middle of the bus stop (legally designated stop
with double yellow lines) as to park 2 x 56 seater coaches in the busy
main A road was unsafe both for the children and for the parents. (by
the way, the parents used to cross this same BUSY main road, right in
front of the leading parked coach (when we could get in) instead of
walking the 20 meters to a school patrol crossing lollypop person)

All ended up with a tirade of abuse and foul language, threats to kill
and general ' I only care for my kid and f... the rest of you '
attitude. I complained to the school, took the bus back (sorry,
without the kids) and have never driven a school bus since.

Thier loss, not mine ........... (retired)

I noticed that this idiot STILL parks there ..... and the school
crossing patrol has resigned and not been replaced.

Police ................. not interested !!

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

An argument I heard some time ago went along the lines of 'We can't let
our children walk to school, it's too dangerous'.

I live in a rural area and there's no way I would have allowed Nathan to

walk

Quoted message said:

to school. No footpaths for 99% of the way there, no streetlighting,

narrow

Quoted message said:

roads, reduced visibility, plus an 11 mile-journey there & back when it

was

Quoted message said:

high school. Now, he's 26 miles there & back to sixth form - again, along

roads

Quoted message said:

where there is no streetlighting, no footpaths... He cycles and I'm happy

with

Quoted message said:

that - he cycles safely and assertively as he's been taught to do. Walking

to

Quoted message said:

school is *much easier* when school and home is in an urban area - rural

areas

Quoted message said:

are an entirely different kettle of fish.

Cheers, helen s

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My point being that if it is unsafe for children to walk alone,

parents (or other carers) can walk with them. Most primary schools are
within a couple of miles of home. Secondary school is a different matter,
often further away, but public or school transport is then usually
available.
Jo

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:29:12 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Still pondering a retort...

The point that she is apparently protecting her children primarily
from her own carelessness, and that this is not necessarily a good
argument from the point of view of everybody around her, might be
worth making :-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 11:33:30 GMT, "Jo" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Most primary schools are
within a couple of miles of home. Secondary school is a different matter,
often further away, but public or school transport is then usually
available.

Interestingly we go further to primary school than we are likely to go
to secondary, because the local primary (which is a couple of minutes'
walk away) is oversubscribed and barely in its own catchment area.

For some reason some extremely expensive houses are in catchment
despite being closer to another school, whereas much closer but more
modest houses like ours are excluded. So we go to a school some
distance away; my wife and I were both bullied at primary school
because we had different social backgrounds from the other kids, so we
chose a school where the other parents are "PLU". As, of course, are
the majority of the parents of the closest school, to which we cannot
go.

The fact that being in catchment adds to your house price, and there
were several councillors living in those expensive houses at the time
the catchments were drawn up, is surely mere coincidence. Bitter?
Not a bit of it ;-)

Luckily the local secondary school is very good and very well
equipped, as well as being within walking distance.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

David Martin said:

It's those kids who could walk but don't that are the worry.

My son's school has done it's bit to help by starting up a "walking bus"
scheme, funded by the local paper. I think it's a fantastic idea and
it's great (fortunate) that they are able to get enough parent
volunteers to make it work.

d.

Marc Brett said:

The Oh Dear may also be the anticipation that a much-simplified, and possibly
twisted, version of the paper will be trotted out again and again by the pro-car
lobby without consideration of all the caveats mentioned here. More fruitless
arguments while the Real Problem (tm) is left ignored.

And my objection is on the basis that research should not be censored
just because the conclusions don't support our agenda. I am not against
robust criticism which is the way progress in understanding is made but
censorship of unwelcome results is a slippery slope.

Tony

Helen Deborah Vecht vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

"Paul - [censored]" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Helen Deborah Vecht vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but I am not able to see through the rear
window when my boys are leaping around in the back.

Quoted message said:

Safety not really a prime concern either then ... 😉

My thoughts precisely! Still pondering a retort...

I think 'uncaring' might be used somewhere in there .. relating to herself,
her children and those around while she tries to manouvre .. 😉

--
Paul ...

(8(|) Homer Rules !!!

"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."