The most over-rated cyclists...

VadarStrikesBack said:

Empirical evidence would suggest this is an accurate reflection of reality on a daily basis.

yes, absolutely i was absolutely wrong.. he actually has quite a few professional wins.. stages in stage races... see i have no problem at all admitting when i'm wrong... unlike some other people..🙄

has not won a single win in a classic though..

mitosis said:

I didn't realise that your weren't allowed to win a one day race if the public sees you as a stage racer. That's probably why no one chased him at the worlds the other day. I'll pass it on to Cadel when I see him next, expect an apology.

Seconds and thirds in the big tours don't count much either. Don't know why he bothers.

i know you were being sarcastic, but the ironic thing is that, that IS likely why no one bothered to chase him... ahhh... it's just Cadel we don't have to follow that loser... lol... and did so at their peril... and it is because he's just not the kind of guy that has managed to deliver on the big day... he has stage wins in stage races, but has not won a single classic and even in stage races he's also never managed to get up there on the top step.. sure he's gotten onto the podium during one of the weakest periods in the TdF in recent memory, but is that something to be proud of? i guess so... lol..

lets look at how the podium from 2008 did this year shall we... ?

Carlos Sastre - 1st in 2008... 17th in 2009 26:21 down... :eek: WTF!!
Cadel Evans - 2nd in 2008... 30th in 2009 45:24 down... nice!! :p
well we all know what happened to Bernard Kohl who was third...
4th/3rd in 2008 was Menchov... 51st in 2009 and 1:17 down.. at least he had excuse he won the Giro against real competition...

even 2007 was a weak year.. Contador shouldn't have been able to win the tour de france in that year... the next year should have been the 1st year that he was really in contention for the win... the competition was so weak thought that he manage to get the win anyway (after Rassmusen was x'ed out, Vino was out that is)... and we see what happens to guys like Evans when presented with a real race... folds like a deck of cards...

i'm not saying that he's a bad rider.. he's a very good rider... but looking at his results from this year... we see he's strictly a second tier quality of rider, but he's billed as a top tiered rider meaning that he IS over rated.

and sure i give all credit to him for taking the win at the worlds, he took the initiative, he put his head down and he did the work, but lets be real.. he benefited from the much stronger riders behind him looking at each other... that was probably the biggest contributing factor that allowed him to win... let's be real now..

doctorSpoc said:

.. he benefited from the much stronger riders behind him looking at each other... that was probably the biggest contributing factor that allowed him to win... let's be real now..

I don't think that you are correct here - there are probably quite a few riders that are a little stronger than Cadel, but none that are "much stronger" than him. Any good pro rider would have known not to let him get away at that point, if they could prevent it.

artemidorus said:

I don't think that you are correct here - there are probably quite a few riders that are a little stronger than Cadel, but none that are "much stronger" than him. Any good pro rider would have known not to let him get away at that point, if they could prevent it.

LMMFAO... anyone with eyes and any amount of common sense in there heads understands that Sanchez and Cancellara were by far the class of that field on that day.. Cancellara looked like he was riding a frig'n Kawaski for Christ sake and Sanchez was the only one able to follow him and them go around him in the end. As Cadel was riding away in the final climb we saw the second chase group sit up playing cat and mouse with each other, each trying to force the other to chase 'til it was too late. Which race were you watching? LOL..

doctorSpoc said:

LMMFAO... anyone with eyes and any amount of common sense in there heads understands that Sanchez and Cancellara were by far the class of that field on that day.. Cancellara looked like he was riding a frig'n Kawaski for Christ sake and Sanchez was the only one able to follow him and them go around him in the end. As Cadel was riding away in the final climb we saw the second chase group sit up playing cat and mouse with each other, each trying to force the other to chase 'til it was too late. Which race were you watching? LOL..

Well the eyes in my head saw exactly that. Sanchez and Cancellara ride in with daylight behind them - and evans over 30 seconds ahead LOL, looked like he was on a Honda. Yeah, the chase group sat up while evans rode away - but only when they realised they weren't going to catch him.

Sanchez and Cancellara must be a little overrated if they can't even beat evans?

mitosis said:

Well the eyes in my head saw exactly that. Sanchez and Cancellara ride in with daylight behind them - and evans over 30 seconds ahead LOL, looked like he was on a Honda. Yeah, the chase group sat up while evans rode away - but only when they realised they weren't going to catch him.

Sanchez and Cancellara must be a little overrated if they can't even beat evans?

mitosis, do you or have you raced? i'm talking about mass start road racing not TT's... i'm not trying to be facetious.. i'm seriously trying to figure out why/how it is that you can mistake what was happening on the road. i know that many people that haven't raced just don't have a good understanding of race dynamics and how it is that many, many times the strongest don't manage to get themselves over the line first.. i find especially people that come from a running background have a hard time understanding this..

they needed to start pulling hard and steady from the bottom of the hill.. by the time we see Cancellara attack at the top of the hill it was already too late... Sanchez couldn't pull because Rodriguez was up the road, and Cancellara was trying to get others to work to better his chances of success so in the end there were a few little attacks here and there but no concerted chase and as i said by the time Cancellara realized that his only chances for success were up the road it was too late.. not enough road left... as i said Evans benefited from the favorites x'ing themselves out..

doctorSpoc said:

........
sure he's gotten onto the podium during one of the weakest periods in the TdF in recent memory, but is that something to be proud of? i guess so... lol..

You should expand a little when you say 'weakest tours'
why was it weak and who was missing.

Lets see off the top of my head.
in those years you had, Contador, Kloden & Leipheimer. (Astana no 08 tour invite).
As for the rest, Basso, Ullrich, Mancebo, Landis, Vino, Rassmussen etc. etc. all done for (or implicated) doping so do they count as making the field weak? I don't think so.

What changed in 09? Contador, Kloden & Leipheimer were back in as was Basso & Armstrong on their returns.
In essence the field wasn't really much different, all that happened was the top 2 from the previous year didn't have good tours (Sastre & Evans).
Don't forget Evans came 4th in 06 & 8th in 05 (where 5 riders above him all got busted for doping) in the so called much stronger years. Sastre was 4th in 06 & 21st in 05 (riding for Basso).

doctorSpoc said:

LMMFAO...(snip)

Uncivil replies notwithstanding, you still don't have a point. Any pro rider who chooses to let a rider like Cadel get ahead at that stage of the race is either choosing not to be in contention, or cannot keep up.

doctorSpoc said:

mitosis, do you or have you raced? i'm talking about mass start road racing not TT's... i'm not trying to be facetious.. i'm seriously trying to figure out why/how it is that you can mistake what was happening on the road. i know that many people that haven't raced just don't have a good understanding of race dynamics and how it is that many, many times the strongest don't manage to get themselves over the line first.. i find especially people that come from a running background have a hard time understanding this..

they needed to start pulling hard and steady from the bottom of the hill.. by the time we see Cancellara attack at the top of the hill it was already too late... Sanchez couldn't pull because Rodriguez was up the road, and Cancellara was trying to get others to work to better his chances of success so in the end there were a few little attacks here and there but no concerted chase and as i said by the time Cancellara realized that his only chances for success were up the road it was too late.. not enough road left... as i said Evans benefited from the favorites x'ing themselves out..

Two riders don't make a race. Its not like Sanchez and Cancellara were the only strong riders left in the peloton, its not like it was their decision alone to let the three get away. The three rode away, they weren't coasting, they rode hard to get away from the main group. Its not like the whole peloton said "its only evans we'll let him go", they wouldn't even do that in the tour this year when he was more than 3 minutes down.

Once you lose touch with the leaders you lose interest, as evans did in the tour this year. Its impossible to prove but its likely he would have been top 10 at least if he hadn't lost so much time early on in the team time trial. Its a mental game and a physical one. Yes, evans had a bad tour - not because he is so much a poorer rider than the top finishers, but because he had a few bad days and it was obvious he couldn't claw his way back - and the other riders still wouldn't give him a chance - doesn't make him a second class rider. And look at his performance in the vuelta this year.

Mentally he was on top of his race and was able to ride hard. In fact it seems that his early form surprised him - he'd been having a poor season by his standards and mentally he expected that would continue. But for a flat tyre he could have challenged for the lead.

And, yes, I've been racing for many years. Short club races and long races, 200ks plus - know how much you can wear yourself being strong early, or make bad decisions, both as a maker of bad decisions and (very rarely) the beneficiary of them.

I'll see the highlights again this sunday. I'll be happy to admit it if they support you but all the reports and commentary I've seen so far haven't.
Having a bad season, by his standards, yes. Overrated, no.

All it comes down to is that evans was tactically the better rider on the day, if Sanches or canc were better they would have won but they wern't. As for saying Evans chokes in I presume your meaning the Vuelta, if you DR SPOC had been riding and raceing over a period of time you'd realise that putures happen and are bad luck.......i'd hardly call that chokeing

Scotttri said:

As for saying Evans chokes in I presume your meaning the Vuelta, if you DR SPOC had been riding and raceing over a period of time you'd realise that putures happen and are bad luck.......i'd hardly call that chokeing

Didn't it take a little more than a minute for him to get a wheel change? I read somewhere (maybe this thread?) that the time he lost then was greater than the time he lost the vuelta by.

steve said:

Didn't it take a little more than a minute for him to get a wheel change? I read somewhere (maybe this thread?) that the time he lost then was greater than the time he lost the vuelta by.

It took a bit over a minute, if you took that into consideration I think he still loses but only by a few seconds. If the race was closer to the end things might have been different, might have been more incentive in the final time trial for evans, or for Valverde we will never know, Valverde won fairly ( if all are clean ) and thats the way cycling is. Point is Evans didn't choke, he could have given up right after that stage but didn't

Tom Danielson : a few years back he used write for Cycle Sport.
His articles expounded about how he was going to do this and that.

Speaking of pros who doubled as writers for cycling mags and always touted their planned exploits but never really delivered.....Dave Millar fits this bill well. Mike Barry is another current pro rider/magazine contributor but is much less of a bragasaurus compared to Dan and Dave.

limerickman said:

Tom Danielson : a few years back he used write for Cycle Sport.
His articles expounded about how he was going to do this and that.

Who the hell is Tom Danielson? I've heard his name a few times but have never seen him in an event. I'd call him below the radar of over-rated cyclists.

how about Oscar Pereiro, as a tour winner at least (the peloton conceded him 1/2 hour in one stage)

but anyone riding the tour has to be a great cyclist !

No_Positives said:

4. George Hincapie - Not a climber, can' t TT, has a modest sprint. What the hell is he then? I guess good enough to have his own clothing line.
3. Carlos Sastre - He won the Tour against the weakest field in history. Big deal.
2. David Millar - Name one thing this guy has won while not on the juice. Yet every TT his name is brought up as a favorite.
1. Damiano Cunego - He sucks. Pure and simple. I don't like his tree-trunk-legs-on-small-body-physique either.

Others?

Cavendish dropped Millar on the Madeleine. :eek:

No_Positives said:

Cavendish dropped Millar on the Madeleine. :eek:

Well, heck, that must be obvious proof of something, right? I mean, gosh darn it, if a knee jerk face value judgement isn't the gold standard, I dunno what is!

alienator said:

Well, heck, that must be obvious proof of something, right? I mean, gosh darn it, if a knee jerk face value judgement isn't the gold standard, I dunno what is!

If it's good enough for the GOP, it's good enough for me, I say.

These guys are riding at Pro Tour level. I race at Cat. 3 level. Like taking a good high school football player and tossing him in the NFL. Ergo, none of these guys are "over-rated", IMO. I respect all of them for being high performing athletes. Maybe not performing to Joe Blow's armchair expert standard, but these guys have all come up through the ranks where they were waxing cyclists in their respective regions. And "over-rated" according to whom? The UCI ranks these guys based on results last I know. Did they change the criteria or something???

Case in point: Last week I watched Svein Tuft come home from the pro tour and almost lap the field TWICE in a 70min crit (Yaletown Grand Prix) on a tough, 1+ kilometer, technical course in downtown Vancouver. This race had some other continental pros (Kelly Benefit, United Healthcare) and most of the local top level cat. 1/2 guys. To watch Svein made me think of the high school to NFL analogy - and he's a relative 'nobody' on the pro tour level...impressive display of ridiculous aerobic power...