The Darwinian Package

"Representative Trantis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Don't know if this is appropriate for evolution, and

should be posted to

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anthropology, but I will post it here anyway, and let the

moderators decide.

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Darwin proposed the idea of human evolution as a package,

with bipedalism,

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technology and intelligence/a large brain, all came

together. Today we know

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that isn't true. There is a rather large gap between

bipedalism and the

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emergence of intelligence and technology, certainly enough

for it not to be

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a package.

Human females have a rather difficult time giving birth,

that's a little bit

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of an understatement! This is because we first evolved

bipedal locomotion,

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requiring narrow hips. We then developed bigger brains.

This obviously

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requires a bigger head. Humans however, having a narrow

pelvis, can only

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stay in for nine months before they are only just large

enough to still

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enable them to fit the head through the pelvis.

Consequently we come out

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much earlier than we should for our optimal brain

development. This is one

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of the major theories as to why human babies are so

helpless for their first

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year.

It seems to me, that if you accept the general view that

organisms can't

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evolve into anything less fit, in order to get fitter,

they can't go down

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the slope of mount improbable to get further up in the

long run as one

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famous Zoologist would put it. Then something stares you

in the face.

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This something (I finally get to the point) is that it

seems clear that

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bipedalism evolved first, and that the intelligence

developed later, having

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to simply make do with what it has, ie, an inadequatly

narrow pelvis for

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such a large brain/skull.

For me this seems to stare you in the face. Why wasn't

this picked up upon

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much earlier? (Or am I missing something about the

specifics of the

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anatomical requirements of bipedalism in apes/humans? )

I don't get the point in these kind of arguments. At each of the stages you mention, didn't the
_overall_ fitness of [censored] Sap. increase? We probably wouldn't be here if it didn't, no? Maybe, as an
analytical chemist, I just don't see what the _quantitative_ definition of fitness is, if there is
one, outside of species survival, that is. 🙂 ...tonyC

<< This something (I finally get to the point) is that it seems clear that bipedalism evolved first,
and that the intelligence developed later, having to simply make do with what it has, ie, an
inadequatly narrow pelvis for such a large brain/skull.

For me this seems to stare you in the face. Why wasn't this picked up upon much earlier? (Or am I
missing something about the specifics of the anatomical requirements of bipedalism in apes/humans? )

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I think the helplessness of the newborn is a selected advantage, because it allows brain development
under the tutelage and support of the mother and social group. Thus a genetic set plan, is replaced
by a genetic + cultural evolution plan which is an improvement for building intelligence.

"TomHendricks474" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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<< This something (I finally get to the point) is that it seems clear that bipedalism evolved
first, and that the intelligence developed later,

having

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to simply make do with what it has, ie, an inadequatly narrow pelvis for such a large brain/skull.

For me this seems to stare you in the face. Why wasn't this picked up upon much earlier? (Or am I
missing something about the specifics of the anatomical requirements of bipedalism in
apes/humans? )

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I think the helplessness of the newborn is a selected advantage, because

it

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allows brain development under the tutelage and support of the mother and social group. Thus a
genetic set plan, is replaced by a genetic + cultural evolution

plan

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which is an improvement for building intelligence.

Well, yes, but you can't escape the fact tat humans are underdeveloped. It seems a very dangerous
thing to evolve a system which leaves a newborn human helpless, unless it's unavoidable.

According to Richard Leakey, in his book 'The Origin Of Humankind', Chapter 3, states.

"The helplessness of newborn human infants is, however, less a cultural adaption than a biological
necessity. Human infants come into the world too early, a consequence of our large brain and the
engineering constraints of the human pelvis...... A simple calculation besed on comparisons with
other primates reveals the gestation length in [censored] sapiens, whose averagebrain capacity is 1350
cubic centimeters, should be twenty-one months, not the nine months it actually is. Human infants
therefore have a year's growth to catch up on when they are born, hence their helplessness."

"Representative Trantis" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

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"TomHendricks474" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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<< This something (I finally get to the point) is that it seems clear that bipedalism evolved
first, and that the intelligence developed later,

having

Quoted message said:

to simply make do with what it has, ie, an inadequatly narrow pelvis for such a large
brain/skull.

For me this seems to stare you in the face. Why wasn't this picked up upon much earlier? (Or am I
missing something about the specifics of the anatomical requirements of bipedalism in
apes/humans? )

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I think the helplessness of the newborn is a selected advantage, because

it

Quoted message said:

allows brain development under the tutelage and support of the mother and social group. Thus a
genetic set plan, is replaced by a genetic + cultural evolution

plan

Quoted message said:

which is an improvement for building intelligence.

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Well, yes, but you can't escape the fact tat humans are underdeveloped. It seems a very dangerous
thing to evolve a system which leaves a newborn human helpless, unless it's unavoidable.

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According to Richard Leakey, in his book 'The Origin Of Humankind', Chapter 3, states.

Quoted message said:

"The helplessness of newborn human infants is, however, less a cultural adaption than a biological
necessity. Human infants come into the world too early, a consequence of our large brain and the
engineering constraints of the human pelvis...... A simple calculation besed on comparisons with
other primates reveals the gestation length in [censored] sapiens, whose averagebrain capacity is 1350
cubic centimeters, should be twenty-one months, not the nine months it actually is. Human infants
therefore have a year's growth to catch up on when they are born, hence their helplessness."

While increase in brain size may well have exceeded the ability of the pelvis to adapt, I think Tom
has a good point. Development of the myelin sheath on neurons takes over a year in human infants,
during which period considerable changes take place in neuronal connections in the brain, probably
in response to environmental stimuli, especially exposure to language (note the specialized nature
of "baby talk"😉. So even with larger hips the gestation period might not be lengthened all that
much, and babies would still be helpless at birth.

In fact it may be that walking upright allowed, rather than required, babies to be born helpless, as
the mother could then carry them rather than the infants having to have some ability to hang on to
the mother.

Yours,

Bill Morse