TdF

rdclark said:

ZeMascouflatte said:

Quoted message said:

Not the case - it WAS gravel

i'm glad you saw better than the actual rider who was behind the
crash when it happened and rode the same route.
when you have a minute, please post the brand of your tv set, i must
get one of those!

Everyone is apparently missing the fact that there were two separate
crashes that occurred nearly simultaneously. The cameras focused on
the second and third riders to crash, but the discussion of tar was in
reference to the first one. See my earlier post for names and details.

Yes, you're right. I just watched the video that R. Brickson posted. What
jumps out at me is that the very FIRST rider that slid out a bit -- at least
that I saw -- managed to save it and rode on just fine. Almost seemed like
his swerve is what caused the other one or two to crash. (And then came the
last two who crashed spectacularly.)

Nasty stuff.

ZeMascouflatte said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

Anybody watch today's action where they had a crash due to gravel

no gravel involved. was the heat (road deformed and top melted).
----------
"I was following right behind Verbrugghe," said stage winner Fedrigo.
"Because of the heat, the road was deformed, reminding me about the
crash of Joseba Beloki some years ago, also here in Gap."
from cyclingnews.com

boy, that looked awful....and whats up with Kessler! He crashed at the
giro too, but this time he seemed okay.

Poor verbrugge... i like him. I thought he was crippled for sure... was
relieved when he moved. If you ever look at Graham Watson's website,
there's a photo of this poor guy, INaki Gaston, who also took a header.
I think it was at the tour, 1990 or 1991. He's totally out, blood all
over him, he looks dead. Of course he didn't die but I think that was it
for him for a while. Verbrugge's crash reminded me of that yesterday.

ZeMascouflatte [email protected] said:

Quoted message said:

Not the case - it WAS gravel

i'm glad you saw better than the actual rider who was behind the crash
when it happened and rode the same route.

I'll wager that "actual rider" changed HIS mind after he saw the
replay.

Quoted message said:

when you have a minute, please post the brand of your tv set, i must get
one of those!

I watched the incident again (and again and again) using my DVR, and
there's simply no doubt. You are wrong.

The incident was without any question at all caused by gravel in the
corner - you can even see the reflective "specs" from the gravel.

ALL of the riders went through that corner at full song - pretty much
on the edge. Notice the angle of the two middle bikes (that weren't
affected by the gravel since they took the corner slightly wider than
the four that were). They're leaning at a very high angle to make the
corner at the speed they went through it.

The first TWO riders lost their rear tires - you could actually see
the rear tire of the second rider (who didn't crash) go significantly
sideways exiting the gravel/sand patch. The first rider (Verbrugghe)
was partially hidden by the second, but it's clear that he too lost
the rear wheel, countersteered, and simply ran out of room before he
was able to gather in the bike to complete the turn.

The fifth rider (Cañada) also clearly lost the front wheel as he
exited the sand. There's no recovering that one, I'm afraid.

Kessler did a magnificent job of dealing with the situation he was
given to work with, IMHO... he used as much brake as was possible,
given that there was a sliding body in the way of any escape path. He
also did a fine job letting the bike take the brunt of the impact (and
scored extra points for the double flip the bike executed after
clearing the guard rail).

There WAS oil bubbling to the surface of the infamously maintained (if
I can use that word) French roads, but none was visible in that
corner, even after a careful frame-by-frame examination. It's clearly
visible further down the road on the "same television" BTW.

I really can't imagine any careful observation of the incident could
conclude that the gravel / sand in that corner wasn't the root cause
of the crashes.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Bill Sornson said:

rdclark said:

ZeMascouflatte said:

> Not the case - it WAS gravel

i'm glad you saw better than the actual rider who was behind the
crash when it happened and rode the same route.
when you have a minute, please post the brand of your tv set, i must
get one of those!

Everyone is apparently missing the fact that there were two separate
crashes that occurred nearly simultaneously. The cameras focused on
the second and third riders to crash, but the discussion of tar was in
reference to the first one. See my earlier post for names and details.

Yes, you're right. I just watched the video that R. Brickson posted. What
jumps out at me is that the very FIRST rider that slid out a bit -- at least
that I saw -- managed to save it and rode on just fine. Almost seemed like
his swerve is what caused the other one or two to crash. (And then came the
last two who crashed spectacularly.)

The first rider had lost it even before the second rider did - watch
the replay closely, and you'll see that the second rider - while he
did slide over close the Verbrugghe - didn't actually cause the crash.
Look at the lean angle of Verbrugghe's bike and you'll see he simply
wasn't able to lean into the corner since he recovered the slide too
late.

BTW, I thought the same thing you did the first time I watched the
replay, until I carefully watched Verbrugghe's bike's wheels (which
were fairly visible through almost the entire sequence).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey wrote:

:: Kessler did a magnificent job of dealing with the situation he was
:: given to work with, IMHO... he used as much brake as was possible,
:: given that there was a sliding body in the way of any escape path.
:: He also did a fine job letting the bike take the brunt of the impact
:: (and scored extra points for the double flip the bike executed after
:: clearing the guard rail).

I think he just got lucky.

Quoted message said:

Lance never dominated. He barely won any stages and just coasted in
last year's tour.
He will soon be forgotten. Merckx Coppi etc "DOMINATED". Lance just
won. Annd that was partly due to keeping out Cipo;inni and other graet
riders

Bill said:

Anybody watch today's action where they had a crash due to gravel on the
road and one poor fellow went over the rail? Ambulance time, 2 riders
out, and they were in the breakaway.
This year is a total free for all without Lance to dominate.
I have high hopes for Landis. He deserves a win.
Bill Baka

Strategy.
You can win the Tour without a single stage win as long as you keep the
total time better than the others.
Bill Baka

Bill Sornson said:

ZeMascouflatte said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Sornson said:

Please learn to quote.

i will. i like to learn something everyday...

Much better already! 🙂

As much as you forget?
My money is on Landis.
Bill Baka

Roger Zoul said:

Mark Hickey wrote:

:: Kessler did a magnificent job of dealing with the situation he was
:: given to work with, IMHO... he used as much brake as was possible,
:: given that there was a sliding body in the way of any escape path.
:: He also did a fine job letting the bike take the brunt of the impact
:: (and scored extra points for the double flip the bike executed after
:: clearing the guard rail).

I think he just got lucky.

Probably - he was certainly either very lucky in an unlucky way, or
very unlucky in a lucky way.

My impression is that he probably got the wind knocked out by the
impact, and then just laid there trying to figure out what was broken
before he moved. He seemed to be pretty stoic once he rejoined the
pack - probably trying to work out how he can simultaneously feel so
bad about losing a chance for stage-win glory, and so good about not
being hurt badly.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 03:15:01 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lance never dominated. He barely won any stages and just coasted in
last year's tour.
He will soon be forgotten. Merckx Coppi etc "DOMINATED". Lance just
won. Annd that was partly due to keeping out Cipo;inni and other graet
riders

Bill said:

Anybody watch today's action where they had a crash due to gravel on the
road and one poor fellow went over the rail? Ambulance time, 2 riders
out, and they were in the breakaway.
This year is a total free for all without Lance to dominate.
I have high hopes for Landis. He deserves a win.
Bill Baka

Strategy.
You can win the Tour without a single stage win as long as you keep the
total time better than the others.
Bill Baka

REALLY?

Bill said:

Bill Sornson said:

ZeMascouflatte said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Please learn to quote.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i will. i like to learn something everyday...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Much better already! 🙂

Quoted message said:

As much as you forget?
My money is on Landis.
Bill Baka

Umm... Huh?

R Brickston said:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 03:15:01 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lance never dominated. He barely won any stages and just coasted in
last year's tour.
He will soon be forgotten. Merckx Coppi etc "DOMINATED". Lance just
won. Annd that was partly due to keeping out Cipo;inni and other graet
riders

Bill wrote:
> Anybody watch today's action where they had a crash due to gravel on the
> road and one poor fellow went over the rail? Ambulance time, 2 riders
> out, and they were in the breakaway.
> This year is a total free for all without Lance to dominate.
> I have high hopes for Landis. He deserves a win.
> Bill Baka

Strategy.
You can win the Tour without a single stage win as long as you keep the
total time better than the others.
Bill Baka

REALLY?

DUH.
It is really about the shortest total time to finish the course. The
sprinters allways have a go at each other, etc, but hove you seen anyone
in the front who has taken all the stages?
I think you do not know how the rules are set up.
Bill (you google it) Baka

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:32:32 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

R Brickston said:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 03:15:01 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Lance never dominated. He barely won any stages and just coasted in
> last year's tour.
> He will soon be forgotten. Merckx Coppi etc "DOMINATED". Lance just
> won. Annd that was partly due to keeping out Cipo;inni and other graet
> riders
>
> Bill wrote:
>> Anybody watch today's action where they had a crash due to gravel on the
>> road and one poor fellow went over the rail? Ambulance time, 2 riders
>> out, and they were in the breakaway.
>> This year is a total free for all without Lance to dominate.
>> I have high hopes for Landis. He deserves a win.
>> Bill Baka
Strategy.
You can win the Tour without a single stage win as long as you keep the
total time better than the others.
Bill Baka

REALLY?

DUH.
It is really about the shortest total time to finish the course. The
sprinters allways have a go at each other, etc, but hove you seen anyone
in the front who has taken all the stages?
I think you do not know how the rules are set up.
Bill (you google it) Baka

Bwaaaahahaha..!!!!!! Are you serious? You REALLY didn't get it? You
have genius level IQ?

R Brickston said:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:32:32 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It is really about the shortest total time to finish the course. The
sprinters allways have a go at each other, etc, but hove you seen anyone
in the front who has taken all the stages?
I think you do not know how the rules are set up.
Bill (you google it) Baka

Bwaaaahahaha..!!!!!! Are you serious? You REALLY didn't get it? You
have genius level IQ?

You just stuck your foot in it again, dunce.
The sprints and stage finishes are just for the one day glory and not
the whole race. You know how to Google, as you have shown by trying to
trash everything I say, so go do it, bright guy (ten watts, max).
Bill Baka

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:03:15 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

R Brickston said:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:32:32 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It is really about the shortest total time to finish the course. The
sprinters allways have a go at each other, etc, but hove you seen anyone
in the front who has taken all the stages?
I think you do not know how the rules are set up.
Bill (you google it) Baka

Bwaaaahahaha..!!!!!! Are you serious? You REALLY didn't get it? You
have genius level IQ?

You just stuck your foot in it again, dunce.
The sprints and stage finishes are just for the one day glory and not
the whole race. You know how to Google, as you have shown by trying to
trash everything I say, so go do it, bright guy (ten watts, max).
Bill Baka

My God, you REALLY don't get it? Are you that much of a narcissist?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:26:49 GMT, freeper scum, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Quoted message said:

Bill Baka

My God, you REALLY don't get it? Are you that much of a narcissist?

The lack of bicycling content in any of your posts thus far leaves me
thinking you're in the wrong newsgroup.
--
zk

Zoot Katz <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

The lack of bicycling content in any of your posts thus far leaves me
thinking you're in the wrong newsgroup.

I *plonked* Bill & Ed, and I think the whole place would be a lot better
off if everyone did the same.

--
fnood fneep gnip gnop
http://greep.flood.nit
[email hidden]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:09:18 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:26:49 GMT, freeper scum, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Quoted message said:

Bill Baka

My God, you REALLY don't get it? Are you that much of a narcissist?

The lack of bicycling content in any of your posts thus far leaves me
thinking you're in the wrong newsgroup.

No. Here's an example of "lack of bicycling content,"

"Defending myself, as in 2001 when I got into a fist fight with a 22
year old idiot, my only concern was not to lose my temper and kill
him, so I deflected his ill directed blows for about 3 minutes. Me 52,
him 22, and he was in danger for his life, over a stupid road rage
incident."

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kevan Smith said:

I *plonked* Bill & Ed, and I think the whole place would be a lot better
off if everyone did the same.

your newsreader or whatever software you use probably has a filter
function. just add the names of people you don't want to read to your
filters, and that should solve the problem.

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

On 18 Jul 2006 20:23:59 GMT, Kevan Smith <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The lack of bicycling content in any of your posts thus far leaves me
thinking you're in the wrong newsgroup.

I *plonked* Bill & Ed, and I think the whole place would be a lot better
off if everyone did the same.

Baka and Brickston are easy enough to ignore but they really should
get a room.

Team CSC is back in top spot! That kick at the finish by Christian
Vandevelde in Stage 14 looked indicative of things to come. And then
today Fränk Schleck on the mountain. . . impressive work by a flat
lander. Those Cervelos sure are fast.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:26:49 GMT, freeper scum, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Quoted message said:

Bill Baka

My God, you REALLY don't get it? Are you that much of a narcissist?

The lack of bicycling content in any of your posts thus far leaves me
thinking you're in the wrong newsgroup.

It's that damned Brickston twit that keeps pulling off course. My
original post was whether anybody watched that crash (among others) of
OLNTV.

Anybody feel ambitious enough to point out that it is consistency that
wins the tour? I have seen guys win a stage by outrageous amounts, never
to be anywhere near the top ten again. One day wonders. Lance did not
need to kill himself on any one stage as long as he was on top in
overall time. He usually stayed at the front of the peloton to avoid
crashes but got nailed by a spectator of all things. He navigated around
Beloki by going on the dirt one time, but was not penalized for taking a
short cut.
The TdF header is mine.
Bill Baka
Not my fault Brickston jumps in and ruins it. I thing he is an
agoraphobic sissy that can only start stuff with a typewriter.
I also doubt that he knows much about the rules of the tour. The first
person across the line in Paris is only the stage winner and if the tour
winner has 15 minutes advantage he can come in anywhere before that lead
time is used up. Hell, he could stop and have an early glass of
Champagne if he was that far ahead.