swimming for fitness and weight loss



M

Marion Helfrich

Guest
Hi!

For background, I am a thirty-one-year-old woman with a lot (about 70 pounds) of weight to lose and
a desire to get into better shape (cardiovascularly).

About six weeks ago, a friend inspired me to begin swimming for exercise. I swim laps in the
apartment complex pool (which is decent-sized but not a full 25 yards) four or five times a week.
Building up gradually, I can now do 25 laps (50 lengths) in about half an hour, swimming mostly
breaststroke with an occasional lap of front crawl. I haven't lost much weight (none, really), but I
feel a lot better -- more energy, better mood, fewer headaches, etc.

I'm wondering what my next steps should be to continue developing my fitness and hopefully lose some
weight. Should I try to swim more laps? Or faster? Or more crawl as opposed to breast stroke (those
are my only good strokes -- I have never been able to do the backstroke, and although I could once
sort of do the butterfly, I can't now)? Or something else? I'm very comfortable in the water, but I
don't think my technique is very good -- is it worth taking some lessons? What sort should I look
for? I am not interested in racing (plus, I am really slow!), just getting better.

Thanks!

Marny
 
Marion Helfrich <[email protected]> wrote:
>For background, I am a thirty-one-year-old woman with a lot (about 70 pounds) of weight to lose and
>a desire to get into better shape

>About six weeks ago, a friend inspired me to begin swimming for exercise. I swim laps in the
>apartment complex pool (which is decent-sized but not a full 25 yards) four or five times a week.
>Building up gradually, I can now do 25 laps (50 lengths) in about half an hour, swimming mostly
>breaststroke with an occasional lap of front crawl. I haven't lost much weight (none, really), but
>I feel a lot better -- more energy, better mood, fewer headaches, etc.

If you enjoy this form of exercise, keep at it for at least another 6 weeks before deciding if it's
helping you lose weight or not. You might also look for a scale with the electronic body fat measure
(crude, but you can see changes), or just use a tape measure and see if you're shrinking, even if
the weight itself stays constant.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
 
Marion Helfrich wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> For background, I am a thirty-one-year-old woman with a lot (about 70 pounds) of weight to lose
> and a desire to get into better shape (cardiovascularly).
>
> About six weeks ago, a friend inspired me to begin swimming for exercise. I swim laps in the
> apartment complex pool (which is decent-sized but not a full 25 yards) four or five times a week.
> Building up gradually, I can now do 25 laps (50 lengths) in about half an hour, swimming mostly
> breaststroke with an occasional lap of front crawl. I haven't lost much weight (none, really), but
> I feel a lot better -- more energy, better mood, fewer headaches, etc.
>
> I'm wondering what my next steps should be to continue developing my fitness and hopefully lose
> some weight. Should I try to swim more laps? Or faster? Or more crawl as opposed to breast stroke
> (those are my only good strokes -- I have never been able to do the backstroke, and although I
> could once sort of do the butterfly, I can't now)? Or something else? I'm very comfortable in the
> water, but I don't think my technique is very good -- is it worth taking some lessons? What sort
> should I look for? I am not interested in racing (plus, I am really slow!), just getting better.

It is worth taking lessons. It will give you self-assurance that your technique is adequate; it will
give you some professional advice on what next steps to take, and it will give you some experience
swimming in a better lap swimming environment. The YMCA often has adult swim classes, which is where
I would go next.

martin

--
Martin Smith email: [email protected] Vollsveien 9 tel. : +47 6783 1188
P.O. Box 482 mob. : +47 932 48 303 1327 Lysaker, Norway
 
Depending on your diet and other exercise I would imagine that you would have to do about twice as
much as you're doing (about 2km) each session.

To avoid boredom try mixing it up:
- 2, 4 or 8 length sprints with 15, 30 or 60 seconds rest between
- alternate 10 lengths freestyle, breaststroke, backstroke
- buy a kick board and fins and do freestyle and butterfly kicks on your front and back
- buy a pull bouy and do alternate lengths freestyle (with the bouy between your legs) and
breastroke (with the bout out front in your hands).

Join a Swimming Club. There are Master's Clubs for over 18 year olds.

"Marion Helfrich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi!
>
> For background, I am a thirty-one-year-old woman with a lot (about 70 pounds) of weight to lose
> and a desire to get into better shape (cardiovascularly).
>
> About six weeks ago, a friend inspired me to begin swimming for exercise.
I
> swim laps in the apartment complex pool (which is decent-sized but not a full 25 yards) four or
> five times a week. Building up gradually, I can
now
> do 25 laps (50 lengths) in about half an hour, swimming mostly
breaststroke
> with an occasional lap of front crawl. I haven't lost much weight (none, really), but I feel a lot
> better -- more energy, better mood, fewer headaches, etc.
>
> I'm wondering what my next steps should be to continue developing my
fitness
> and hopefully lose some weight. Should I try to swim more laps? Or
faster?
> Or more crawl as opposed to breast stroke (those are my only good
strokes --
> I have never been able to do the backstroke, and although I could once
sort
> of do the butterfly, I can't now)? Or something else? I'm very
comfortable
> in the water, but I don't think my technique is very good -- is it worth taking some lessons?
> What sort should I look for? I am not interested in racing (plus, I am really slow!), just
> getting better.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marny
 
"Marion left this mess on Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:35:25 GMT for The Way to clean up:
>
>
>I'm wondering what my next steps should be to continue developing my fitness and hopefully lose
>some weight. Should I try to swim more laps? Or faster? Or more crawl as opposed to breast stroke
>(those are my only good strokes -- I have never been able to do the backstroke, and although I
>could once sort of do the butterfly, I can't now)? Or something else? I'm very comfortable in the
>water, but I don't think my technique is very good -- is it worth taking some lessons? What sort
>should I look for? I am not interested in racing (plus, I am really slow!), just getting better.
>

Marny, you've received some enormously good advice on this topic, so let me kick in my observations
to point out somethings.

First, swimming, like most aerobic exercises, is pretty boring: endlessly repetitive, same view over
and over again, things like that. Second, swimming is a slow way to lose weight, on its own merits,
unless of course, you have the time set aside to really work at it (but then you get back to the
boring thing).

I'd mix in, in addition to someone's suggestions regarding your sets, some other aerobic (and even
some strength building) exercises, just to mix things up. Motivation can lag easily when you don't
see immediate rewards (immediate being open to individual interpretation). Running, bike riding,
even just long brisk walks will help you focus when you swim, and will alleviate some of the
repetitiveness. As you've already noticed, the benefits of aerobic workouts far exceed "just
losing weight".

Also, try to make things fun for yourself. If you have other swimmers in the pool that swim at or
about your speed, see if you can "race" them (they don't have to know, which makes it even easier to
beat them :) ), by increasing your pace just a little. Or see how far you can swim underwater on one
breath. This counts towards your laps, so don't think you're getting out of your work, just getting
out of the worl routine.

I know with my daughter, when I give her coaching, I try to find fun ways to reinforce good stroke
habits (like pretending we're dolphins under water, to work on her fly kick), and these have helped
her to visualize during races what her form should be.

These things can't hurt and can only really help in the long run.

More than anything, enjoy this stuff!

Tao te Carl

"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
 
A few years ago a friend of mine joined a masters swim club and lost no weight --but 3-4 dress
sizes. I think she got down to a six. If you are more concerned with appearance than with actual
weight loss, swimming is the best. I've actually gained a bit since I've started swimming regularly
again, but I am smaller and more toned, and it is a trivial amount. Madelaine

Marion Helfrich wrote:

> Hi!
>
> For background, I am a thirty-one-year-old woman with a lot (about 70 pounds) of weight to lose
> and a desire to get into better shape (cardiovascularly).
>
> About six weeks ago, a friend inspired me to begin swimming for exercise. I swim laps in the
> apartment complex pool (which is decent-sized but not a full 25 yards) four or five times a week.
> Building up gradually, I can now do 25 laps (50 lengths) in about half an hour, swimming mostly
> breaststroke with an occasional lap of front crawl. I haven't lost much weight (none, really), but
> I feel a lot better -- more energy, better mood, fewer headaches, etc.
>
> I'm wondering what my next steps should be to continue developing my fitness and hopefully lose
> some weight. Should I try to swim more laps? Or faster? Or more crawl as opposed to breast stroke
> (those are my only good strokes -- I have never been able to do the backstroke, and although I
> could once sort of do the butterfly, I can't now)? Or something else? I'm very comfortable in the
> water, but I don't think my technique is very good -- is it worth taking some lessons? What sort
> should I look for? I am not interested in racing (plus, I am really slow!), just getting better.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marny
 
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:35:25 GMT, "Marion Helfrich" <[email protected]> wrote:

I'll throw my 2C in here. My personal motto is "Eat to lose weight, excercise for health" As
you've already noticed the excercise you've been doing has done good things for you other
than weight loss. You're excercising for health reasons. IMO excercise, although helpfull,
is the lesser effecient tool to use for weight loss. For an example, beginning runner can go
out and run 2 mi's at a 10 min pace and burn roughly 200 calories in roughly 20 mins. Add in
get dressed shower etc time you're looking at 30-40 mins to burn 200 calories. Those
calories that were burned are easily replaced simply by eating a Snickers bar or Pepsi. My
point is simply altering diet is a more effective method of losing weight than excercise.
Swimming is an excellant excercise for cardio health. However you'd have to swim Breastroke
for an hour or so to burn off the calories you'd consume by having an 8 oz glass's of orange
juice, a couple of Pepsi's and a beer, or you could just drink water.

~Matt

>Hi!
>
>For background, I am a thirty-one-year-old woman with a lot (about 70 pounds) of weight to lose and
>a desire to get into better shape (cardiovascularly).
>
>About six weeks ago, a friend inspired me to begin swimming for exercise. I swim laps in the
>apartment complex pool (which is decent-sized but not a full 25 yards) four or five times a week.
>Building up gradually, I can now do 25 laps (50 lengths) in about half an hour, swimming mostly
>breaststroke with an occasional lap of front crawl. I haven't lost much weight (none, really), but
>I feel a lot better -- more energy, better mood, fewer headaches, etc.
>
>I'm wondering what my next steps should be to continue developing my fitness and hopefully lose
>some weight. Should I try to swim more laps? Or faster? Or more crawl as opposed to breast stroke
>(those are my only good strokes -- I have never been able to do the backstroke, and although I
>could once sort of do the butterfly, I can't now)? Or something else? I'm very comfortable in the
>water, but I don't think my technique is very good -- is it worth taking some lessons? What sort
>should I look for? I am not interested in racing (plus, I am really slow!), just getting better.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Marny
 
"Marion Helfrich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi!
>
> For background, I am a thirty-one-year-old woman with a lot (about 70 pounds) of weight to lose
> and a desire to get into better shape (cardiovascularly).
snip
> Thanks!
>
> Marny

I've lost about 25 lbs in the past 6 weeks by a) changing to a low carb diet and b) swimming 4 to 5
times a week ( I bike usually 2 days as well) as opposed to my as of previously lazy 2 times a week.
My disclaimer is that I have been swimming competitively for 25 years or so and so swimming for me
comes rather easy. Workouts usually consist of anything from 3,000 to 6,000 yards. My weight has
come down from a height of 280, to 255 today, since 6/2/03.

The basic caloric issue is that you need to burn 3,500 calories above what you eat in any given time
period, on average, to lose a pound of fat.

Now, this type of dietetic change may not be for you, but somewhere, somehow, you need to control
your diet and do any kind of exercise on a regular basis. I swam for many years eating like a pig,
and it finally caught up with me as my metabolism began to slow down with age (I am 36).

Low carb may not be right for you, but it works for me, gives me unlimited energy, I am never hungry
and my blood pressure has gone down to normal levels. When coming home from swimming previously, I
would be ravenously hungry, due to glycogen depletion from swimming. These days, I am never hungry.
 
In article <[email protected]>, MJuric <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'll throw my 2C in here. My personal motto is "Eat to lose weight, excercise for health" As
> you've already noticed the excercise you've been doing has done good things for you other
> than weight loss. You're excercising for health reasons. IMO excercise, although helpfull,
> is the lesser effecient tool to use for weight loss. For an example, beginning runner can go
> out and run 2 mi's at a 10 min pace and burn roughly 200 calories in roughly 20 mins. Add in
> get dressed shower etc time you're looking at 30-40 mins to burn 200 calories.

However, I can burn 1200 calories in an hour, while it's quite difficult to remove that much in
daily eating. That math works better for light exercise.
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
 
"Pog" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Depending on your diet and other exercise I would imagine that you would have to do about twice as
> much as you're doing (about 2km) each session.
> > >
> >

Swimming was extremely helpful and an integral part of my weight loss program.

In my experience there is a big difference in being fit and being healthy. I lost over 50 pounds
(240+ to 180+) in 2001 primarily through dietary change and moderate excercise. I've since put on a
bit to be back to 200lbs (I've fallen off the excercise wagon recently but am still over 40lbs off
my high from 3 years ago). I'm in my late twenties.

My excercise program was walking, cardio (25-45 minutes) on the bike, and, predominately, swimming.
I don't think I ever hit a 2km swim ... my range was probably 800m to 1800m. It took me about a
minute to do 50m so I was in the water for probably at least 30 minutes.

The key was consistency - I excercised at least 5 times a week. That was it - regular, moderate
excercise and non-stupid eating habits. No gimmicks, no powders, and no supplements, just a mind to
reducing portion size, drinking water instead of pop, eating fruits/veggies and cutting out the fast
food whenever possible.

If you enjoy swimming, keep at it and you will likely see encouraging results.

Mind you, I was along way from fit .... when I was fitness tested in 2002 (at about 185 ish) I
scored a "0" on body composition (what was I when I was 240 ... "negative 0"?) and had a body fat %
over 20 ... On the plus side I felt way better, looked better, and got a clean bill of health at the
ole doctor's office.

My next step is to join a Masters swim club along with a resistence training program to take my
fitness to the next level ... although that may have to wait until the fall.
 
[email protected] left this mess on Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:48:59 +0000 (UTC) for The Way
to clean up:
>
>In article <[email protected]>, MJuric <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'll throw my 2C in here. My personal motto is "Eat to lose weight, excercise for health" As
>> you've already noticed the excercise you've been doing has done good things for you other
>> than weight loss. You're excercising for health reasons. IMO excercise, although helpfull,
>> is the lesser effecient tool to use for weight loss. For an example, beginning runner can go
>> out and run 2 mi's at a 10 min pace and burn roughly 200 calories in roughly 20 mins. Add in
>> get dressed shower etc time you're looking at 30-40 mins to burn 200 calories.
>
>However, I can burn 1200 calories in an hour, while it's quite difficult to remove that much in
>daily eating. That math works better for light exercise.
>--

The original poster has a different goal than you do, Jason. She specifically ruled out anything
more than just general improvement in health and weight. You're training for something.

Tao te Carl

"It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003
 
"Jason O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> However, I can burn 1200 calories in an hour, while it's quite difficult to remove that much in
> daily eating. That math works better for light exercise.

When I peak during marathon training, I am running 60+ miles a week for 3 weeks, which I have built
to over the previous ten weeks of 40-50 miles each. I've run two marathons and each time thought,
if ever I am going to develop those six-pack abd (or anything remotely like them) I've always
wanted, this will be it. I never did. I did not change my diet during trainng, which is not
particularly unhealthy, but is high in carbs. I think the general population, myself included, has
a lot of room to cut calories. I live in the US, and unfortunately there are innumerable studies
that back this up.

Rob Campbell
 
Rob Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
>When I peak during marathon training, I am running 60+ miles a week for 3 weeks, which I have built
>to over the previous ten weeks of 40-50 miles each. I've run two marathons and each time thought,
>if ever I am going to develop those six-pack abd (or anything remotely like them) I've always
>wanted, this will be it. I never did. I did not change my diet during

Getting a six pack entails more than just trimming fat. You do need to do the abdonominal training,
which won't be covered by running. And if you already have larger fat deposits there, good luck (or
meet your plastic surgeon). You might be able to count every rib before you see those muscles
defined. Also, a typical runners build may not be the same body type that can have a ripping ab and
well defined pecs and biceps.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
 
Rob Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
>Just trying to use a little imagery to make my writing more interesting to read. The point is I
>lost some weight, but not as much as I expected. I may have even unconsciously increased my calorie
>intake during training, offsetting some of the gains I might have made. For the average American,
>myself included, there is room for improvement in diet.

If you lost weight and improve cardio health, there are no downsides.

You can read columns in triathlete [sales] magazines about the virtue of passing on that single
donut and eating nothing impure. WTF is the point of living then? Good food is half the reason I
train as much as I ever do. Nonpasteurized cheeses, pates, wines, donuts, roast lamb, italian
sausage, creme brulees, carbonara.... one can eat a perfect diet but I don't see many upsides to it.
He or she could still be struck down with a brain tumor next month.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
 
"Jason O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rob Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
> >each. I've run two marathons and each time thought, if ever I am going to develop those six-pack
> >abd (or anything remotely like them) I've always wanted, this will be it. I never did. I did not
> >change my diet during
<snip>
> Getting a six pack entails more than just trimming fat. You do need
<snip>

Just trying to use a little imagery to make my writing more interesting to read. The point is I lost
some weight, but not as much as I expected. I may have even unconsciously increased my calorie
intake during training, offsetting some of the gains I might have made. For the average American,
myself included, there is room for improvement in diet.

Rob Campbell
 
"Jason O'Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You can read columns in triathlete [sales] magazines about the virtue of passing on that single
> donut and eating nothing impure. WTF is the point of living then? Good food is half the reason I
> train as much as I ever do. Nonpasteurized cheeses, pates, wines, donuts, roast lamb, italian
> sausage, creme brulees, carbonara.... one can eat a perfect diet but I don't see many upsides to
> it. He or she could still be struck down with a brain tumor next month.

I agree with you. I joke that I run so I can eat. It's not true, but my wife's a great cook and
baker and we love good food in general. If I didn't run (and now swim) I'd be overweight. That being
true doesn't stop me from sometimes wishing that I looked like Addonis.

Despite the extreme cases of eating disorders, however, most people who think they need to lose
weight probably do need to. And they probably can modify their diet and still enjoy the good things
in life. Someone who needs to lose a large amount of weight probably needs to modify their diet, for
health reasons, never mind vanity.

My server dropped the original message in this thread, so I can't reply directly, but I admire Marny
for taking on her new exercise routine and sticking with it. My advice would be to think of this as
something you'll do for yourself for a lifetime, so you don't get discouraged if you don't see the
short term gains you think you should. As time goes on, you may want to add other activities such a
walking or frisbee golf to keep it interesting. And though you probably know to already, look at
your diet and see what you could change.

Rob Campbell
 
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:48:59 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Jason O'Rourke) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, MJuric <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'll throw my 2C in here. My personal motto is "Eat to lose weight, excercise for health" As
>> you've already noticed the excercise you've been doing has done good things for you other
>> than weight loss. You're excercising for health reasons. IMO excercise, although helpfull,
>> is the lesser effecient tool to use for weight loss. For an example, beginning runner can go
>> out and run 2 mi's at a 10 min pace and burn roughly 200 calories in roughly 20 mins. Add in
>> get dressed shower etc time you're looking at 30-40 mins to burn 200 calories.
>
>However, I can burn 1200 calories in an hour, while it's quite difficult to remove that much in
>daily eating. That math works better for light exercise.

First off What the hell are you doing to burn 1200 calories an hour? Actually the math works
for pretty much any excercise. Burning 1200 calories an hour is equivalant to a poor runner
weighing roughly 165 lbs running 12 miles an hour or a 5 minute pace. Anyone running a 5 min
pace is not a poor runner is probbaly only burns 80 or so calories a mile and thusly would
have to run 15 miles an hour or a 4 min pace for an hour not easily done if even possible,
certainly not by a beginner. OTOH cutting out 1200 calories is once again fairly easily done
depending on ones normal caloric intake. If one is normally eating 3200 calories a day
simply eat 2000 calories a day. Done! Of course I would not recommend cutting out 1200
calories out of ones diet, nor would I reccommend someone to burn 1200 calories in excercise
and not replace some of those calories as both have the potential for creating a dangerous
caloric deficit.

~Matt

>--
>Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
 
In article <[email protected]>, <MJuric> wrote:
>(Jason O'Rourke) wrote:
>>You can read columns in triathlete [sales] magazines about the virtue of passing on that
>>single donut and eating nothing impure. WTF is the point of living then? Good food is half the
>>reason I train as much as I ever do. Nonpasteurized cheeses, pates, wines, donuts, roast lamb,
>>italian sausage, creme brulees, carbonara.... one can eat a perfect diet but I don't see many
>>upsides to it.
>
> Well weight loss for one.

You can lose weight with a far less than perfect diet. There is a universe of good food to enjoy,
but the subset that fit into the realm of a perfect diet is rather small. At that point we're no
different than livestock.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
 
In article <[email protected]>, <MJuric> wrote:
>>However, I can burn 1200 calories in an hour, while it's quite difficult to remove that much in
>>daily eating. That math works better for light exercise.
>
> First off What the hell are you doing to burn 1200 calories an hour? Actually the math works
> for pretty much any excercise. Burning 1200 calories an hour is equivalant to a poor runner
> weighing roughly 165 lbs running 12 miles an hour or a 5 minute pace. Anyone running a 5 min
> pace is not a poor runner is probbaly only burns 80 or so calories a mile and thusly would
> have to run 15 miles an hour or a 4

Sorry, Matt, your numbers are all wrong. Calorie consumption for running is based almost entirely on
body weight. Run a mile in 6 mins, 10 minutes, or walk it in 30 and you're burning the same. The
fast running will still have an elevated heart rate afterwards and gets a bonus, but the primary
difference is cardio, not calorie burn.

So the answer is - I run 8 miles. Or more typically, 4 to 6 miles in 30-45 minutes. Or an hour plus
of racquetball.

For your 165lb runner, 130Cal/mile. But estimates/lb/mile vary from model to model. Still, point
remains that speeds is essentially irrelevent, other than the total calories you can burn in a
given interval.

--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
 
In article <[email protected]>, <MJuric> wrote:
>mile. Which in order for this individual with a more effiecient gate to burn 1200 calories an hour
> would have to run 15 miles and hour or roughly a 4 miniute pace.

you keep repeating this, but who agrees with you? Go find some backing for it. I'll repeat - did it
in 8 miles. Got my Polar and several runner's calculators to back it up. It also maintained
remarkable consistency on the calorie total for a fixed distance run, be the averag HR 160 or 180.
(27 minutes versus 22)

A very out of shape runner may be less efficient, but after you pass the hump it becomes a
rather simple work equation- force over distance. Efficiency is more about VO2 max, not form as
in swimming.

> My end point is I think most people over estimate the amount of calories they burn while
> excercising and indirectly points out another reason why excerising is an inefficient method
> for losing weight. The begining runner/swimmer/biker may go out and run 2-3 miles at a 10-12
> minute pace. Then goes home thinking "man I worked hard for 25-30 minutes". Then proceeds to
> suck down 32 oz of Gatorade practically offsetting any calories burnt.

I think this thread (which was weeks ago - where have you been?) was about time efficiency. Swimming
is a much lower burn rate as the person doesn't need to support their weight. But the plodding
runner doing 3 miles is actually burning about 2 quarts of gatorade. One who runs 3.5 miles at a
time three times a week is likely to lose weight and rather easily if they don't get hurt.
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com
 
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