Suspension MUni

As long as the suspension is directly linked to transmitting power from
the pedals to the wheel you will have problems. Stiffening it up so it
doesn't affect pedaling is not the answer I think.

I don't know if its possible. It would be awesome to have suspension for
your feet though. 🙂

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I think it'd be interesting to do big drops on a MUni with
"suspokesion", it'd kinda turn into a kangaroo wheel upon impact.
Assuming you were aiming for a "correct" rolling landing it'd make it a
bit harder to pedal at first (which isn't -necessarily- a bad thing) and
then moments later when the hub was on its way back up to the center of
the wheel it'd (I think) become easier to pedal. It'd take a bit of
getting used to but it'd be cool!

I'm thinking a 3 pronged suspension unit (like in the 3d models at the
start of this thread) with only 2 of the 3 having hinges between the hub
and the rockshox would work in terms of a "beautiful suspension action".
I was thinkin some sort of ball in socket joint for a hub would be
interesting (if only slightly impossible)...

If anyone's got any more brilliant ideas or things to add about
suspension MUnis, please post them up and I'll have a go at
incorporating them into another 3dmodel, that way we all get to stare in
wonder at them without havin to go through the hassle of actually making
them. :p

By the way, a few people have been asking about this, the answer is I've
been using Lightwave3D 7.5c (www.newtek.com) for the models, it really
is the complete package in terms of "out of the box" bang for your buck.
I highly recommend it to anyone wanting to get into 3d modelling or 3d
animation.

cheers
Pete

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Here's a page from the November 2001 issue of "WWI Aero", showing an old
advertisement for an aeroplane wheel with "suspension spokes". I copied
the picture to a fairly large size so as to not lose too much detail.
Any ideas here someone could borrow for a suspension Muni??

Doug

[image: P:\wheel.jpg]

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Jeez - including the picture would have been useful.....sorry!!

D.

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dforbes said:

*Here's a page from the November 2001 issue of "WWI Aero" *

Being under an aeroplane, these wheels won't have to transmit driving
forces, and probably no braking forces through the hub either. That
makes it easier to have spokesuspension. If you would drive (or brake)
the hub, the suspenspokes would probably wind up significantly before
much torque were transmitted to the rim.

Klaas Bil

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Klaas,

That's an excellent point about the wheels winding up under a
driving/braking torque. It would be interesting to try building such a
wheel to see how you could minimize the "wind-up" problem, without
sacrificing all of the suspension travel - seems like there could be an
acceptable compromise somewhere. A certain degree of "wind-up" under
torque, together with the springiness of the suspension would certainly
add to the challenge of riding, wouldn't it!

Doug

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Originally posted by dforbes

Quoted message said:

Here's a page from the November 2001 issue of "WWI Aero", showing an
old advertisement for an aeroplane wheel with "suspension spokes".

Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about (quote: ''it had curved
metal plates disposed as spokes.''😉

It was really similar, but the wheel I had seen was on a very old
picture of a Penny-Farthing. So in theory it wouldn't be a problem to
propulse or brake the wheel. I still wonder why they didn't keep on with
the idea...🙄

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vincelemay said:

*So in theory it wouldn't be a problem to propulse or brake the wheel.
I still wonder why they didn't keep on with the idea...🙄 *

Imagine riding with two loose cranks, too-loose spokes, and your brakes
rubbing all the time. That would probably be about as annoying as riding
a wheel that wasn't absolutely stiff in the driving direction. You would
waste energy every time you made a change in speed.

Plus that airplane wheel, as pretty as it is, doe not look very light.
Obviously if it was a good alternative, it would have found its way onto
at least one airplane?

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Yeah, any brilliant idea that didn't catch on, didn't catch on for a
reason. The thing is if you can find that reason and fix it THEN you
have something useful. 🙂

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Thats AWESOME! it would be so cool if it worked good.

would it not be hard to hop?!

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Amazing models! Thanks for sharing.

Andrew

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So, I just now noticed that the pedals are on the wrong sides, unless
someone took the time to swap the spindles.. meh. Im a bit nit picky
about that, im going to a corner now.

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aust said:

*Thats AWESOME! it would be so cool if it worked good.

would it not be hard to hop?! *

Why? Could be easier. Why do you think trials riders lower their tire
pressure? To get more spring. With suspension in the rim you could keep
your tire pressure higher because you'll get spring from the suspension.

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aust said:

would it not be hard to hop?!

Maybe, because of the weight. But the springiness of the wheel would
be beneficial to hopping.

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
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johnfoss said:

*Plus that airplane wheel, as pretty as it is, doe not look very
light. Obviously if it was a good alternative, it would have found its
way onto at least one airplane? *

The Ackerman wheels were actually used in the J.V. Martin K-III
"Kitten", which was powered by a 2-cylinder, 45 hp motor and had an
empty weight of only 159 kg (350 lbs). Although those wheels can't
have been as light as conventionally-spoked wheels, perhaps they were
lighter than a combination of spoked wheels + shock-absorbers would have
been? The wheels were incidentally part of one of the first
semi-retractable landing gears ever used (1918).
With today's materials it might be possible to make an
Ackermann-style wheel that wouldn't be too heavy - but you'd still have
the wind-up problem Klaas pointed out in an earlier post.
A "springy" wheel would probably make a lousy suspension Muni - but
it would be fun to try to ride, and a rider in motion would certainly
look odd, bobbing up and down.....maybe the prototype had better be
tested somewhere out in the desert away from the prying eyes of press
and public.
🙂 Doug

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dforbes said:

*maybe the prototype had better be tested somewhere out in the desert*

Something for our new comrade Kraze in Iraq?

Quoted message said:

-but then dforbes continued and wrote-
*away from the prying eyes of press and public.*

So, no, not in Iraq.

Klaas Bil

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aust said:

*would it not be hard to hop?! *

Actually I think it would be real easy and fun to hop. You could bounce
all over the place. This would be its strongest point. Riding it would
be the sukky part, due to the wind-up.

I can't think of a way off the top of my head to eliminate the wind-up
and still have a way for the wheel to be springy. I'm sure there is an
engineering solution out there somewhere though...

That the springy wheel was used on a 350 lb airplane attests to its
lightness. In those days of course, most airplanes did not have
suspension systems so that was probably a nice feature.

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I may have an idea that would work. I'm going to try and model it up in
Rhino3D.

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This is the idea someone else and I came up with. Basically the same
idea as the first, with 6 hingest, 3 on the hub, 3 on the rim. But add a
4th shock which would be one piece with the hub and hinged at the rim.
It would not contribute any spring to the compression. It would have no
spring, no dampening. This is to prevent uneven compression. I believe
this would allow for suspension inside the wheel, but would also keep
the hub rotationally rigid to the rim. Let me know what you guys
think.

'2D drawing someone else made'
(http://www.angelfire.com/un/qotd/rim.jpg)

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Another render with the telescoping piece of metal modeled a little
differently. You all realize it would be free to slide. It would just be
a strong telescoping piece. ALL of the rotational torque would be sent
through this piece and NOT through the actual shocks.

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