General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Statins no good

Started by Habshi · · Last activity · 3 posts · 476 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
6 April 2004
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8 April 2004
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Habshi
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  1. excerpts
    guardian.co.uk0,3605,1186456,00.html

    In fact, a number of trials have found that, even though the
    number of deaths from heart disease does fall when
    cholesterol is reduced by a range of means among patients in
    primary care - that is, at GP level - there is often an
    increase in the overall death rate from other causes

    Statins in primary prevention have not consistently reduced
    the incidence of myocardial infarction [heart attack] or
    stroke. Other studies have even found that over the age of
    50, reducing cholesterol increases the death rate. only 50%
    of people who develop heart problems have high cholesterol,
    while a study in the BMJ in 2001 found no link between
    changing fat in the diet and heart disease. Malcolm
    Kendrick, a GP from Cheshire who is the most active Skeptic
    in Britain. "For instance, in Russia at the moment, heart
    attack rates are rising dramatically but their cholesterol
    levels are the reverse of what we see in the US and the UK.
    They often have high levels of the so-called "good" HDL
    cholesterol and low levels of the "bad" LDL, but they still
    keel over from heart disease." When you correct for age,"
    he concluded "there is almost no correlation between high
    cholesterol and heart disease." This month the New England
    Journal of Medicine is due to publish the results of a
    large trial reporting that the heart patients who reduced
    their cholesterol down as far as two, had a 16% drop in
    their risk of experiencing such "vascular events" as heart
    attacks and strokes. One of the cholesterol-reducing drugs,
    Lipitor, is among the best-selling prescription drugs in
    the world with sales worth $16bn (£8.75bn). The message
    from this trial is likely to be that when it comes to
    cholesterol "you can't go too low".

    But the fact that bringing down cholesterol can help some
    male heart patients," says Kendrick "doesn't mean it's going
    to protect otherwise healthy people whose cholesterol is
    over five. Since the average level in the UK is 5.7, that is
    an awful lot of people."

    But what about trials showing that statins reduce the risk
    of heart attacks and strokes by a quarter among healthy
    volunteers? That sounds impressive. But how impressive, say
    the Skeptics, depends on how you work out the percentages.
    Heart attacks among healthy people are quite rare, so the
    actual percentage of people having a heart attack while on
    statins is just 3% compared to 4% on a placebo. That is
    indeed a drop of 25% but it is also a mere 1% fewer heart
    attacks over five years, which is not quite so wonderful. In
    Sweden official advice is to reserve statins largely for
    secondary care But the same report concluded that although
    patients on statins had a 1.4% lower rate of heart attacks,
    this was cancelled out by a 1.8% rate of "serious adverse
    events associated with the drug", including cancer. That,
    they say, is almost certainly an underestimate since only
    two of the trials provided details of any serious side
    effects. The researchers said they had asked the drug
    producers for the missing data but received no reply.

    To an outsider what is curious about this debate is that
    both sides are using the same data Akey factor in developing
    heart disease, say the Skeptics, is inflammation. This is
    the defensive reaction produced by the body when it feels
    under attack, the redness that flares up round a cut or
    bruise. An inflamed point on an artery makes it more likely
    that plaque will form The body produces inflammation via a
    number of complicated pathways many of which involve a
    molecular switch known as NF kappaB and recent studies show
    that statins are pretty effective at dimming NF kappaB.
    However this is what a number of other effective heart
    treatments also seem to do, such as aspirin and omega three
    fatty acids found in fish oils, not to mention garlic and
    vitamin E.

    If this turns out to be what is going on, and trials are
    under way to test the idea, this seems likely to shunt
    cholesterol reduction into a small corner of the overall
    picture of heart disease and allow statins to be marketed as
    "inflammation fighters". Other ways of reducing your C-
    reactive protein level include stopping smoking, losing
    weight and exercising.

    The cholesterol hypothesis is unlikely to be abandoned in a
    hurry, given the weight of financial and political muscle
    behind it. But the Skeptics have raised questions that
    could ultimately have an impact on the way we think about
    heart disease.

  2. [email hidden] (habshi) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    excerpts guardian.co.uk0,3605,11
    86456,00.html

    In fact, a number of trials have found that, even though
    the number of deaths from heart disease does fall when
    cholesterol is reduced by a range of means among patients
    in primary care - that is, at GP level - there is often an
    increase in the overall death rate from other causes

    COMMENT:

    If there are a number of such trials, name one.

    Second question is obviously this: did the deaths from other
    causes go up enough to make up for the reduction in
    mortality from the statin? The point is that total mortality
    has to go down. Or trend that way.

    If vascular MORBIDITY goes down but the total MORTALITY
    doesn't change statistically, that does NOT imply that other
    causes are going up to compensate. It may simply be that
    there aren't enough people to test for a morbidity effect
    either way. It's always easier to show you're preventing
    heart attacks than heart attack deaths, since attacks always
    greatly outnumber attacks actually resulting in death.

    SBH

  3. "Steve Harris [email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (habshi) wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    excerpts guardian.co.uk0,3605,
    1186456,00.html

    In fact, a number of trials have found that, even though
    the number of


    deaths from heart disease

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    does fall when cholesterol is reduced by a range of
    means among patients


    in primary care - that is,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    at GP level - there is often an increase in the overall
    death rate from


    other causes

    I have followed a thread (possibly here) regarding an
    initial post that Lipitor causes memory loss. I found no
    clinical proof, and I asked my physician (who happens to be
    the CMO of a respected hospital - and whose opinions and
    advice I respect). He told me - no - "You got that off the
    internet, right?" and rolled his eyes.

    ---
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    Virus Database: 416 - Release Date: 4/4/2004

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