Spaghetti Sauce Question

Gunner said:

"Kent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but using a French term Miropoix (sic) in an Italian sauce? No,
no no. I suspect you mean he made a Battuto (chopped celery, onions,
carrots and a bit of Ham for flavoring) which is then cooked to make a
soffritto ( not sofrito, correct Dimitri?), then you add your meat to the
soffritto for a Ragu Bolognese or a Sugo. A milk or cream is often used in
the style of Bolognese. For the Faux Traditionalist, It is not mandatory as
you have been lead to beleive to put garlic in it an Italian sauce. Living
in the Venato I had often heard that it is either onion or garlic, but
never both, I never followed that rule but I can understand it. There
seems to be a huge difference in Garlic philisophy between Cooks from
American Italians and the ones from various regions of Italay. American
Excess vs. European conservatism. Yet tradition certainly calls for Nutmeg
to be used which is absent in most American adapatations of Italian sauces.
It is a region or a family call, do you use a Pecorino Romano or a
Parmigiano Reggiano with Olive Oil?, which one for the Northern Butter? It
is still all about what your Nonna taught your Mama and that you think you
recall and profess to be "old school" in America.

I also agree with Melody, the carmalized carrots are a sugar component. In
American you would have to use refined sugar to get the taste of sweet
Americans are so used to.

At least let us admit that there is more than one spaghetti sauce!

Ragù is one of the least prepared at my house. I don't mind people
using the word that means something to them and not the Italian word.
The main thing is to understand what they've said, no?

In addition to onions and carrots contributing sweetness to a sauce,
many cooks also deglaze the pan when the vegetables are fried with a
glug of fortified wine or brandy, which also contributes to sweetness.

And then, the rule is cook tomatoes less than 10 minutes or more than 2
hours-- the acid lives between.

The onion OR garlic thing has pretty much fizzled if it were ever true.
In 6.5 years of studying, cooking and eating in Italy non-stop, I must
by now have had several hundred different pasta sauces or preparations.
It's inconceivable to go on and on assuming there's one and that
one's own version is correct even if gathered at the knee of a real
Italian gramma and not an American-Italian gramma.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:24:19 +0200, Giusi <[email hidden]>
magnanimously proffered:

Quoted message said:

Gunner said:

"Kent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but using a French term Miropoix (sic) in an Italian sauce? No,
no no. I suspect you mean he made a Battuto (chopped celery, onions,
carrots and a bit of Ham for flavoring) which is then cooked to make a
soffritto ( not sofrito, correct Dimitri?), then you add your meat to the
soffritto for a Ragu Bolognese or a Sugo. A milk or cream is often used in
the style of Bolognese. For the Faux Traditionalist, It is not mandatory as
you have been lead to beleive to put garlic in it an Italian sauce. Living
in the Venato I had often heard that it is either onion or garlic, but
never both, I never followed that rule but I can understand it. There
seems to be a huge difference in Garlic philisophy between Cooks from
American Italians and the ones from various regions of Italay. American
Excess vs. European conservatism. Yet tradition certainly calls for Nutmeg
to be used which is absent in most American adapatations of Italian sauces.
It is a region or a family call, do you use a Pecorino Romano or a
Parmigiano Reggiano with Olive Oil?, which one for the Northern Butter? It
is still all about what your Nonna taught your Mama and that you think you
recall and profess to be "old school" in America.

I also agree with Melody, the carmalized carrots are a sugar component. In
American you would have to use refined sugar to get the taste of sweet
Americans are so used to.

At least let us admit that there is more than one spaghetti sauce!

Not only is there more than ONE spaghetti sauce, there are hundreds
upon hundreds. Sauces in Italy vary from region to region, town to
town, village to village, and family to family.They also vary around
the rest of the world. So as far as recipes go, there may be
thousands.

And one of my goals in life is to sample all of them before I blow up.

bob said:

Not only is there more than ONE spaghetti sauce, there are hundreds
upon hundreds. Sauces in Italy vary from region to region, town to
town, village to village, and family to family.They also vary around
the rest of the world. So as far as recipes go, there may be
thousands.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

And one of my goals in life is to sample all of them before I blow up.

Spoken like a true foodie! 🙂
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

"kilikini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Becca said:

When you make spaghetti sauce, do you include celery as one of the
vegetables in your sauce?

BTW, one of my Italian friends calls it "gravy", not sauce, so my
apologies to those who call it gravy.

Becca

I had a great recipe for a meatless spaghetti sauce that included celery,
carrots and spinach. Well, in addition to the tomatoes, garlic, onion,
mushrooms, olives, basil, oregano, wine, pinch of sugar, olive oil, bay
leaf, etc. It was garden chunky! A friend borrowed my cookbook and never
gave it back. I loved that cookbook. I wish I could remember the name of
it.

kili

============
I would ask for it back. I would say, "Do you remember that cookbook I let
you borrow one time, I can't remember the name of it right now, but I need a
recipe from that book. Could I have the book back, or are you still using
it?"
I am sure she totally forgot all about it.
I like the direct approach.

Quoted message said:

pfoley said:

"kilikini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Becca said:

When you make spaghetti sauce, do you include celery as one of the
vegetables in your sauce?

BTW, one of my Italian friends calls it "gravy", not sauce, so my
apologies to those who call it gravy.

Becca

I had a great recipe for a meatless spaghetti sauce that included
celery, carrots and spinach. Well, in addition to the tomatoes,
garlic, onion, mushrooms, olives, basil, oregano, wine, pinch of
sugar, olive oil, bay leaf, etc. It was garden chunky! A friend
borrowed my cookbook and never gave it back. I loved that cookbook.
I wish I could remember the name of it.

kili

============
I would ask for it back. I would say, "Do you remember that cookbook
I let you borrow one time, I can't remember the name of it right now,
but I need a recipe from that book. Could I have the book back, or
are you still using it?"
I am sure she totally forgot all about it.
I like the direct approach.

But I have no idea where to find her now. She was last renting an Ohana on
Maui 2.5 years ago when I moved to Florida. I don't even remember her last
name. Sigh.

kili

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:15:56 -0400, "James Silverton"
<not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> magnanimously proffered:

Quoted message said:

"bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:14:24 -0700, "Mitch Scherer"
<[email hidden]>
magnanimously proffered:

Quoted message said:

Sugar does not belong in spaghetti sauce.

Mitch

I disagree. If you're lucky enough to have access to
beautifully sweet
tomatoes then you probably don't need it. But if you don't and
the
sauce needs lifting, then a pinch or two of sugar is perfectly
acceptable, IMO. b

Strangely enough, I still remember the first time I ate
homemade spaghetti with an Italian family and being amazed when
the lady of the house put in a teaspoonful of sugar into the
sugo. That was longer ago than I care to admit!

Speaking of ancient history, I got my first taste of real spaghetti
sauce and pasta in 1952 or ' 53 when I spent a summer in Hastings on
Hudson, New York. I was maybe 10 or 11 and had made friends with some
kids of Italian heritage down in the village.

One day they invited me back to eat with the family and I met their
mother, who was in a big kitchen stirring a huge saucepan with a
wooden spoon. The aroma was wonderful and my appetite really shifted
into high gear. We kids (more arrived from God knows where) sat at a
big table in the kitchen and as she served the pasta we added the
sauce by the spoonful. God it was wonderful. Being a hamburger or
nothing kid up till then, I experienced a taste sensation that I could
never have imagined. It changed my life ... and my waist.

Quoted message said:

But I have no idea where to find her now. She was last renting an Ohana

on

Quoted message said:

Maui 2.5 years ago when I moved to Florida. I don't even remember her

last

Quoted message said:

name. Sigh.

I bet Duane Chapman could find her in a heartbeat...
;-}

Joe Cilinceon said:

"Steve Wertz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joe Cilinceon said:

"Joe Cilinceon" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> I use onion, bell pepper, fresh basil, fresh parsley, dry oregano, plum
> tomatoes, tomato paste, red pepper flake, salt, pepper and sugar (small
> amount).

Forgot the garlic.

And the olive oil.

Yes of course there are other ingredients also but too minor to bother with
unless they need the whole recipe.

Some recipes call for a full cup of olive oil. I'm use a recipe
I saw here probably 10 years ago and thought it strange, but it
works really well.

-sw

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dimitri said:

using a mirpoix ( which BTW you will never be able to isolate/find when
eating)

Unless you are my SIL.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://jamlady.eboard.com - Comfort Food for Bob Pastorio, updated
3-16-2007
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller - blahblahblog - Orange Honey
Garlic Chicken, 3-29-2007
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor

bob said:

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:24:19 +0200, Giusi <[email hidden]>
magnanimously proffered:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

At least let us admit that there is more than one spaghetti sauce!

Not only is there more than ONE spaghetti sauce, there are hundreds
upon hundreds. Sauces in Italy vary from region to region, town to
town, village to village, and family to family.They also vary around
the rest of the world. So as far as recipes go, there may be
thousands.

And one of my goals in life is to sample all of them before I blow up.

I think I already agreed with that. My solution to the ever
experimental Italian kitchen is to diet every Lent. Not because I'm
Catholic, because I'm not, but because it is a defined period of time
and helps rid me of a winter's worth of pasta and polenta cooking and
eating.

Try resisting pasta al limone. Impossible.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Melba's Jammin said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dimitri said:

using a mirpoix ( which BTW you will never be able to isolate/find when
eating)

Unless you are my SIL.

Is that Son in Law or Sister in Law? And once isolated and found...what
is the problem?
"Enquiring Minds Want to Know!"

"Steve Wertz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Joe Cilinceon said:

"Steve Wertz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:45:05 -0400, Joe Cilinceon wrote:

> "Joe Cilinceon" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> I use onion, bell pepper, fresh basil, fresh parsley, dry oregano,
>> plum
>> tomatoes, tomato paste, red pepper flake, salt, pepper and sugar
>> (small
>> amount).
>
> Forgot the garlic.

And the olive oil.

Yes of course there are other ingredients also but too minor to bother
with
unless they need the whole recipe.

Some recipes call for a full cup of olive oil. I'm use a recipe
I saw here probably 10 years ago and thought it strange, but it
works really well.

-sw

I use enough to sauté the onions and green pepper in then start adding the
tomatoes.

Becca said:

When you make spaghetti sauce, do you include celery as one of the
vegetables in your sauce?

No. I was telling a friend yesterday that I use a double boiler for
simmering spaghetti sauce. It cuts down on the "plopping" and the
potential for scorching. I need to buy an electric hot plate because
the new gas range the landlord put in does not go low enough.

Quoted message said:

BTW, one of my Italian friends calls it "gravy", not sauce, so my
apologies to those who call it gravy.

Becca

--Bryan

Food wrote on 23 Apr 2007 07:47:40 -0700:

FS> On Apr 20, 7:58 am, Becca <[email hidden]> wrote:
??>> When you make spaghetti sauce, do you include celery as
??>> one of the vegetables in your sauce?

FS> No. I was telling a friend yesterday that I use a double
FS> boiler for simmering spaghetti sauce. It cuts down on the
FS> "plopping" and the potential for scorching. I need to buy
FS> an electric hot plate because the new gas range the
FS> landlord put in does not go low enough.
??>>
??>> BTW, one of my Italian friends calls it "gravy", not
??>> sauce, so my apologies to those who call it gravy.
??>>

I did use the word "sugo" because that was what the cook used
the first time I had home-made spaghetti. I don't know much
Italian but I think the translation of "sugo" is "sauce".

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dimitri said:

using a mirpoix ( which BTW you will never be able to isolate/find when
eating)

Unless you are my SIL.

<Snip>

LOL.

Dimitri

Giusi said:

Try resisting pasta al limone. Impossible.

Hey, you forgot to post the recipe!

gloria p

Food Snob said:

Becca said:

When you make spaghetti sauce, do you include celery as one of the
vegetables in your sauce?

No. I was telling a friend yesterday that I use a double boiler for
simmering spaghetti sauce. It cuts down on the "plopping" and the
potential for scorching. I need to buy an electric hot plate because
the new gas range the landlord put in does not go low enough.

get yourself a flame-tamer:

<http://www.amazon.com/Maxi-Aids-Flame-Tamer-Simmer-Ring/dp/B00012K5P2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-8839157-2950359?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1177361288&sr=8-1>

your pal,
blake

James Silverton not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not said:

I did use the word "sugo" because that was what the cook used
the first time I had home-made spaghetti. I don't know much
Italian but I think the translation of "sugo" is "sauce".

"Sugo" means "juice". However, just as with the French "jus", "sugo (di
carne)" can mean "meat juice" or "gravy".

Victor

In article <[email hidden]>,

Goomba38 said:

Melba's Jammin said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dimitri said:

using a mirpoix ( which BTW you will never be able to isolate/find when
eating)

Unless you are my SIL.

Is that Son in Law or Sister in Law? And once isolated and found...what
is the problem?
"Enquiring Minds Want to Know!"

The former, although he's the current. He doesn't eat vegetables.
"It's something about the texture." Feh.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller - blahblahblog - Orange Honey
Garlic Chicken, 3-29-2007
jamlady.eboard.com
http:/http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/amytaylor/

Melba's Jammin said:

Quoted message said:

Is that Son in Law or Sister in Law? And once isolated and found...what
is the problem?
"Enquiring Minds Want to Know!"

The former, although he's the current. He doesn't eat vegetables.
"It's something about the texture." Feh.

Feh, is right. How *do* people get such strange notions? What a pita
that has to be at times? If he skeeves vegetables, let him at least keep
it very quietly to himself so that Le Twerp doesn't pick up the unspoken
message.