Some newbie questions

carterjp wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

#1 --> What should I try and keep my maximum bg at? And how long can
it safely stay at that level? With my current diet it can spike to 150, but is almost always below
135-140 at 1 hour and 110-120 at 2 hours.

#2 --> I find myself repeatedly gravitating to a high-protein diet
(usual max bg with these 120 at 1 hour and 100 at 2 hours). Are just lots of (non-starchy, non-
root) veggies sufficient or do I have to include breads and grains in my meals? What grains do you
recommend and where can I buy them? What about starches?

#3 --> If I skimp on grains and starches, will I make myself even more
insulin resistant? In other words, will my bg spike even more than if I were regularly
consuming them?

#4 --> How much unsaturated oils should I eat, in what form and when?

#5 --> What's better - eating three meals that make my bg go to 140
(at 1 hour) and force my pancreas to work thrice or five meals that make my bg go to 120 each time
and make my pancreas work five times?

#6 --> I am exercising aerobically 40 mins every day, weekends
included. Is that sufficient? What should I be doing with weights and how frequently? How useful is
yoga for diabetics?

Some opinions from a retired engineer.

#3. Insulin Resistance is a function of body fat, exercise level, muscle
mass and genetics. I have never read any theories which considered grains and starches as
controlling factors.

Insulin Resistance is so important to you that you might consider it a "disease" separate from your
diabetes. It leads to premature heart attack. It is a strong contributor to the steady death of beta
cells which has caused you to become diabetic.

You fight it by:

a. Minimizing fat lb
b. Maximizing muscle lb
c. Exercising vigorously each day
d. Taking the anti-Insulin Resistance meds metformin, and (Actos or Avandia)

#4 As a rule of thumb, splitting your daily carb into as many small meals
as feasible is healthier for a diabetic. A specific answer to your question:

e. A larger mass of carb at any given meal will spike your bG higher.
f. As your bG rises, your body becomes more Insulin Resistant
g. Therefore, you must produce more insulin per gram of carb to handle the metabolism.
h. This is bad because higher levels of circulating insulin cause damage to arteries
i. This is bad because forcing your body to make more insulin results in more damage to
your beta cells which leads to a quicker deterioration in your "diabetes".

Think of your beta cells as something akin to flashlight batteries. The more you use them, the
faster they wear out, the sooner you will be totally dependant on "external power", or in this case,
multiple daily insulin injections.

#6. Your aerobic routine is wonderful, fantastic, life-extending,
diabetes-fighting,. . .ah. . . er. . .sorry, I ran out of superlatives.

j. Daily exercise reduces Insulin Resistance.
k. This makes your beta cells last longer ii. This protects your arteries
and thus makes your diabetic heart last longer

l. Daily exercise removes glucose from your blood without the need for insulin. It triggers
the AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) system. This is wonderful for diabetics. There is
reason to believe that, not even considering other benefits of exercise, boosting your
AMPK system (whatever on earth that is) reduces your heart attack risk.

Is your 40-minute routine sufficient? I have three answers:

m. Ask your genes (A snippy answer but unfortunately very accurate)

n. Take a look at your triglycerides to HDL ratio. If measured in mg/dL, a ratio of 3
represents a boundary between "too much" and "perhaps not too much" Insulin Resistance
(obviously a difficult subject to study). The lower the ratio, the lower your Insulin
Resistance.

o. Take an Insulin Resistance test. If you can score below 20 in the HOMA test, you are
"winning" . Professors T. Wiesner, M. Blüher and R. Paschke III of the Medical Department,
University of Leipzig, Germany assert that your target is 14.

easd.org213.htmlOpen ↗

medforum.nlvascular dysfunction precedes .htmOpen ↗

Increased muscle mass is extraordinarily useful for all diabetics. If you can add resistance weight
training to your routine, you will be doing yourself a big favor. Muscles act like a giant "glucose
sink" which helps you normalize your blood sugars. That means lower bG spikes, and less
microvascular damage from high bG.

All in all, you are doing a superior job of attacking this disease. If you are really feeling
aggressive, consider a daily insulin shot as a beta cell protector as suggested by Professor Heyden
of the Medical School at the University of Missouri.

". . .If treatment were started at an earlier stage in the natural history of T2DM (Stage III:
impaired glucose tolerance or "prediabetes"😉 in a manner to control elevated glucose levels without
elevating endogenous insulin or the monomeric substrate amylin then it may be possible to halt the
progressive nature of T2DM. . . ."

joplink.net02.htmlOpen ↗

Regards
Old Al

On 21 Feb 2004 02:02:56 -0800, [email hidden] (carterjp) wrote:

Hi Carter. I'll try to answer as best I can; but I strongly suggest you go and have a look at the
advice to "Newly Diagnosed" at alt-support-diabetes.orgNewly%20Diagnosed.htmOpen ↗. I can only
answer from my own experience. I am not a doctor.

Quoted message said:

#1 --> What should I try and keep my maximum bg at? And how long can
it safely stay at that level? With my current diet it can spike to 150, but is almost always below
135-140 at 1 hour and 110-120 at 2 hours.

I try to keep it as low as possible. For most T2s those numbers are not bad. I presume you are T2?

Quoted message said:

#2 --> I find myself repeatedly gravitating to a high-protein diet
(usual max bg with these 120 at 1 hour and 100 at 2 hours). Are just lots of (non-starchy, non-
root) veggies sufficient or do I have to include breads and grains in my meals? What grains do you
recommend and where can I buy them? What about starches?

Those numbers are better. It depends on your definition of "high protein". Unless the protein is
excessively high or causing other problems, I don't see a difficulty. I minimise bread and grains,
but I still average a couple of slices of wholemeal bread and a 1/2 cup of mixed-grain muesli daily.
I try to eliminate the white starches completely.

Quoted message said:

#3 --> If I skimp on grains and starches, will I make myself even more
insulin resistant? In other words, will my bg spike even more than if I were regularly
consuming them?

Not qualified to answer that.

Quoted message said:

#4 --> How much unsaturated oils should I eat, in what form and when?

I minimise most fats; those I do eat are usually olive, peanut or canola (rapeseed) oil in
cooking. I occasionally take linseed (flaxseed) capsules for their omega 3 and 6. I don't
deliberately add oils except in salad dressings or a little in casseroles. Minimise saturated
fats, don't eat trans fats.

Quoted message said:

#5 --> What's better - eating three meals that make my bg go to 140
(at 1 hour) and force my pancreas to work thrice or five meals that make my bg go to 120 each time
and make my pancreas work five times?

I eat five smallish meals a day, the evening meal is slightly larger than the others. My last meal
is the muesli for supper before bed.

Quoted message said:

#6 --> I am exercising aerobically 40 mins every day, weekends
included. Is that sufficient? What should I be doing with weights and how frequently? How useful is
yoga for diabetics?

40 mins sounds great, but then I'm lazy. It's more than I do, with fifteen minutes of swmming a day.
Others here are keen on exercise; I suspect they are right, but, as I said, I'm lazy. HTH JMO

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=>5.9, wt 117kg=>90kg, No diabetes meds.Diet and
not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers
carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

On 21 Feb 2004 02:02:56 -0800, [email hidden]

(carterjp) said:

#1 --> What should I try and keep my maximum bg at?

As low as you can safely manage.

Quoted message said:

And how long can it safely stay at that level?

Depends upon the level. I try not to be over 135 2 hrs + following a meal. And not below 3.5 at any
other time.

Quoted message said:

With my current diet it can spike to 150, but is almost always below 135-140 at 1 hour and 110-120
at 2 hours.

That aint so bad IMO but you might consider discovering what spikes you and in what volume. Then you
can avoid going OTT by adjusting type of food and volume. The only way to do so is to test test
test. I cannot tollerate any more than a segment of an orange or a potato as a part of a meal unless
it is as small as a Golf ball and Baked in the Skin. But we are all different so don't take it as
read that it will be the same for you.

Quoted message said:

#2 --> I find myself repeatedly gravitating to a high-protein diet
(usual max bg with these 120 at 1 hour and 100 at 2 hours).

Why? The question is particularly relevent. Is it because you always feel hungry or is it for some
other reason? You might like to be able to answer that. Using protein as a sunstitute for volume is
in effect introducing an imbalance. Too much od anything is a bad thing, in general terms. There are
those who have suffered complications because of excesses in one type of food predominantly.

Quoted message said:

Are just lots of (non-starchy, non-root) veggies sufficient

Sufficient for what? To stave of your hunger? if so then the answer is yes. Or were you thinking
along another line there.

Quoted message said:

or do I have to include breads and grains in my meals?

You do not HAVE to include anything. A balanced diet encompassing all types is the reccomended
choice however, as an individual you will have to temper that with personal likes/dislikes and other
needs - such as complications - and of course bearing in mind what you can personaly tollerate
without adverse reaction.

IME - it has taken me nearly a year to achieve a level of control where I can litterally eat
anything I like provided that I observe caution in terms of volume/type and overal meal contents and
also taking into consideration my anticipated physical activity. Previously, I had to maintain a
rigid diet to maintain BG levels and achieve weight loss with the only non - variable being the
medication. I managed to find a balance between the medication level [+ exercise level] and food
type/volume input. It's a balancing act.

Quoted message said:

What grains do you recommend and where can I buy them?

In my case I only use Seeded Batch Bread which is the lowest Carb content available to me where I
live. I do not go out of my way to purchase 'grains' as such.

Quoted message said:

What about starches?

I avoid except for a few fries/potatoes once in a while and porridge fro brekkie occasionaly.
Starches build to a peak and last for some time providing a background release in excess of say -
veg. So if I consume starch then I reduce carb intake elsewhere and I never ever eat red meat with
potatoes/fries.

Quoted message said:

#3 --> If I skimp on grains and starches, will I make myself even more
insulin resistant? In other words, will my bg spike even more than if I were regularly
consuming them?

No. Well in my experiences, I cut out starches and grains almost completely for quite a few months
and my BG levels reduced. however, I was loosing weight as well.

Quoted message said:

#4 --> How much unsaturated oils should I eat, in what form and when?

I have never bothered considering this subject at all. Nor will I in the future - for specific
reasons which are not relevent here.

Quoted message said:

#5 --> What's better - eating three meals that make my bg go to 140
(at 1 hour) and force my pancreas to work thrice or five meals that make my bg go to 120 each time
and make my pancreas work five times?

It do not work like that. That is it is not a case of flicking a switch on and off. Your pancreas
responds to chemical signals and enzymes produced as a result of stimulation from eating. This takes
time - probably 20 mins I believe. If you say needed an intake of ????? calories per day then to
achieve that in just three meals will necessitate the total to be consumed spread over three
portions. Spread over say five portions the same ammount will a] be less in volume per meal and b]
require less work by the pancreas. What you do not want is a bulk of grub in one or two go's. As a
rule of thumb, most find it better for control to spread the total input over four or five meals a
day. Little - often.

Quoted message said:

#6 --> I am exercising aerobically 40 mins every day, weekends
included. Is that sufficient?

The blood system on average has about 20 minutes of readily useable energy source after which the
depleted levels are replenished from other sources. Exercise beyond that point stimulates reserves
to be used and there will be a resultant BG reduction. Exercising the large muscles of the body
repetetively usually produces the best results. Such as the thighs and shoulder muscles. Swimming
and walking over rough terrain at a steady pace constantly can achieve good results
- assuming you are physically able. Building muscle tissue and maintaining it requires significant
resources and because of this the results are usually quite good. Some medications work
specifically by helping muscle tissue to uptake nutrition more easily. Reducing body fat and
increasing muscle tissue is recommended.

Quoted message said:

What should I be doing with weights and how frequently?

Personal choice. Whatever make it for you I'd say.

Quoted message said:

How useful is yoga for diabetics?

Never done it so dunno but my guess is that Yoga is all about concentration, relaxation and de
stressing as well as utilising non-volatile muscle control. I believe it is not easy to do well. But
my thoughts are that it could be of significant value to you for destressing and relaxation as well
as providing a varied way of increasing exercise. And if you like it - then that is a good thing eh?

"It's not necessarily what you do but the way you do it that is important".

HTH

JMO FWIW

Pete

Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin + Gliclazide
+ Asprin 210lbs at Dx to BMI 166lbs achieved. But now, 4Lbs Fatter!!! To mail: aspen at freeuk.com

"carterjp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

#1 --> What should I try and keep my maximum bg at? And how long can
it safely stay at that level? With my current diet it can spike to 150, but is almost always below
135-140 at 1 hour and 110-120 at 2 hours.

That depends on what time it is in relation to eating. Most of us aim for <110 fasting, <140 at one
hour after eating and <120 at two hours after eating. I generally do not test at one hour after
eating, but I know that my 2 hour is usually the highest number. So I aim for <140 then, although I
am usually <120.

Quoted message said:

#2 --> I find myself repeatedly gravitating to a high-protein diet
(usual max bg with these 120 at 1 hour and 100 at 2 hours). Are just lots of (non-starchy, non-
root) veggies sufficient or do I have to include breads and grains in my meals? What grains do you
recommend and where can I buy them? What about starches?

For this, you should see a dietician. Obviously the best diet for you is one that you can stick to
and one that keeps your BG in line, but it should be nutritionally sound as well. Grains do contain
some important vitamins, minerals and fiber, so for that reason, I would not avoid them. I do not
eat anything special. I generally don't eat rice unless it is a small amount in soup. I eat barley
sometimes and have whole grain bread or Ryvita crackers for breakfast. I often have popcorn as my
snack before bed. I also eat whole wheat pasta. Not sure exactly what you mean by "starches". I eat
potatoes and dried beans. Both contain a lot of potassium. I sometimes eat corn and peas, but
usually mixed in something like a casserole.

Quoted message said:

#3 --> If I skimp on grains and starches, will I make myself even more
insulin resistant? In other words, will my bg spike even more than if I were regularly
consuming them?

I don't think so. I think the main concern would be mal-nutrition, but really it all depends on what
other specific things you *are* eating.

Quoted message said:

#4 --> How much unsaturated oils should I eat, in what form and when?

Depends on how many calories you are eating. My main sources of fats are olive oil, cheese, nuts
and olives.

Quoted message said:

#5 --> What's better - eating three meals that make my bg go to 140
(at 1 hour) and force my pancreas to work thrice or five meals that make my bg go to 120 each time
and make my pancreas work five times?

No difference really. Do what suits you.

Quoted message said:

#6 --> I am exercising aerobically 40 mins every day, weekends
included. Is that sufficient? What should I be doing with weights and how frequently? How useful
is yoga for diabetics?

I don't think you need the aerobics every day. I would alternate that with weights. I do a variety
of exercises with dumbbells, but you could use machines if you wanted to. Try to work out every part
of your body, concentrating on problem areas if need be. I think Yoga is useful for most everyone,
but not specifically diabetics.

--
Type 2 users.bestweb.net~jboveOpen ↗