Should Cyclists Pack Guns?

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:23:37 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

donquijote1954 said:

Hey, we get screamed at, doored at, spitted upon, pushed around and
even killed, isn't it time we enjoy the same benefits as other
Americans? When is a cyclist going into a rage and mow down all those
careless SUV drivers who make us feel worthless?

I think you'll find your feelings of worthlessness
are rooted within. having a gun won't fix that, any
more than will driving a motor vehicle, getting drunk,
or any combination of the above.

Quoted message said:

Imagine this scenario: You get hit and as you roll down the pavement
you draw and...

1) drop the gun, causing it to uncontrolledly discharge

You're thinking of yourself last Saturday night. Guns dont'
work that way.

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Bill H. said:

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com said:

On 19 Apr 2007 08:34:20 -0700, donquijote1954

Quoted message said:

Excellent ! He supports the Constitution and fundamental
rights...

Just not civil liberties.

Question: Do you support the right for women to vote? The founding
fathers didn't. But we changed THAT to our liking, didn't we?

I don't recall the Constitution saying we couldn't. And of
course that includes the C in the fullest sense, which means the Bill
of Rights is considered 'part and parcel' of it, which means the 17th
( or was it the 27th ? I forget ) Amendment is 'part of the
Constitution, along with all other Amendments '.

IOW - there is a Constitutional way to get rid of the 2nd
Amendment - it's called ANOTHER Amendment, and the process for that is
clearly laid out including state ratifications, etc etc. Unless and
until THAT happens, the RTKABA is Constitutionaly protected.

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We have a few bicycle rallys in the countryside each year that causes the
entire road to be closed for the day. People, mostly ranchers, cannot
leave
or enter their property until the bicycle event is over. One said he was
going to release 200 head of cattle on the road just to make the event
"more
eventful(less)."

Of he could let the cows hang out on the road overnight the
night before ....

I think that's what he meant by "more eventful(less)."

He did say the motorcyclists bother them (i.e ranchers and farmers) less
since they all go by in 15 minutes and it doesn't require them to stay off
the road all day so the bicyclists can ride 3-4 abreast all over the roadway
like they normally do around here.

They don't like riding in their "exclusive lanes" because of stickers, so
they ride in the car track areas of the main roadway.

No wonder some get run over.

Mack

Polarhound said:

donquijote1954 said:

On Apr 19, 3:48 pm, [email hidden] (Matthew T. Russotto)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Just A User <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Okay so that is one, but they are a lot less common than here in the U.S.
> Here in the gun happy U.S. we have at least a couple of mass shootings
> per year.
A lie, of course.

We are not the only one, but we are #1in gun violence... It's "as easy
to buy weapons as a loaf of bread," says this article that gauges
world opinion...

"The U.S. is not the only country in which random acts of gun violence
have erupted in seemingly everyday circumstances to destroy lives,
families and communities," said Britain's Guardian newspaper. "But the
U.S. is one of the few countries that seems collectively unwilling and
politically incapable of doing anything serious to stop such things
happening again."The slayings Monday at Virginia Tech reinforced a
perception that in the U.S., it is "as easy to buy weapons as a loaf
of bread," in the words of one Russian woman on a Moscow street. "Any
madman can get hold of a gun," said Natalya Ivanova, a 22-year-old
secretary.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704181378apr19,1,3882685.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

I find it rather ironic that the newspaper publishing this drivel also
happens to be based in a city where handguns are ALREADY banned, yet it
has one of the HIGHEST crime rates in the nation.

Ah, but consistenly in second place to Washington DC, where
they are even MORE banned :-)

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Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
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..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com said:

On 19 Apr 2007 13:33:35 -0700, donquijote1954

Quoted message said:

U.S. is one of the few countries that seems collectively unwilling and
politically incapable of doing anything serious to stop such things
happening again."The slayings Monday at Virginia Tech reinforced a
perception that in the U.S., it is "as easy to buy weapons as a loaf
of bread," in the words of one Russian woman on a Moscow street. "Any

Well, THAT settles it ! If some random [censored] walking the
street in Moscow says 'It's like such and such in America', it must be
true !

Besides, anyone else remember the stories of how difficult it was to buy
a loaf of bread in the old Soviet Union? 🙂

--
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..p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com said:

Ah, but consistenly in second place to Washington DC, where
they are even MORE banned :-)

Thankfully, that is now in the process of changing:

WASHINGTON (AP) - A federal appeals court overturned the District of
Columbia's long- standing handgun ban Friday, rejecting the city's
argument that the Second Amendment right to bear arms applied only to
militias.

In a 2-1 decision, the judges held that the activities protected by the
Second Amendment "are not limited to militia service, nor is an
individual's enjoyment of the right contingent" on enrollment in a militia.

The ban on owning handguns went into effect in 1976.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit also
threw out the district's requirement that registered firearms be kept
unloaded, disassembled and under trigger lock.

Quoted message said:

"The U.S. is not the only country in which random acts of gun violence
have erupted in seemingly everyday circumstances to destroy lives,
families and communities," said Britain's Guardian newspaper. "But the
U.S. is one of the few countries that seems collectively unwilling and
politically incapable of doing anything serious to stop such things
happening again."The slayings Monday at Virginia Tech reinforced a
perception that in the U.S., it is "as easy to buy weapons as a loaf
of bread," in the words of one Russian woman on a Moscow street. "Any
madman can get hold of a gun," said Natalya Ivanova, a 22-year-old
secretary.

The murder rate outside of the inner cities in the US is very close to
the murder rate in Britain, and the inner cities are usually the areas
with the most constrictive gun laws.

M. MacDonald wrote:

think that's what he meant by "more eventful(less)."

Quoted message said:

He did say the motorcyclists bother them (i.e ranchers and farmers) less
since they all go by in 15 minutes and it doesn't require them to stay off
the road all day so the bicyclists can ride 3-4 abreast all over the roadway
like they normally do around here.

They don't like riding in their "exclusive lanes" because of stickers, so
they ride in the car track areas of the main roadway.

No wonder some get run over.

Mack

In response to a previous post of yours, bicyclists don't pay
registration fees or need licenses because they do little damage to
other people, the roads, or the environment. And quit complaining. If
you don't like paying, just ride a bicycle. It's free for anyone.

Many bicyclists don't want "exclusive lanes." We're usually OK with
generously sharing a part of OUR standard lane with faster motorists.
Yes, the vehicle operator in front, including bicycle drivers, can claim
it's their lane.

Bicycle lanes reduce bicyclists' space, get filled with debris, and are
first a benefit to motorists for easier passing, and secondly a benefit
to some bicyclists who are fearful of overtaking traffic.

I don't have difficulty dealing with bicyclists when I drive my car or
motorcycle. But apparently inept drivers do. Are you inept?

Wayne

donquijote1954 said:

Still Bush defends the right to bear arms

EVEN as President George Bush told the nation he was praying for the
victims, and that the killings in a place of learning would affect
"every American classroom and community", a White House official said
Mr Bush continued to believe in the "right to bear arms".

Naaaa, guns are fun. Everybody should have one.

Regular people should be allowed to carry firearms if they want
to--*nothing* ruins a criminal's day faster than an armed victim.

-----------

Here's a fun question (totally off-topic for this newsgroup)--narcotics
are already illegal in the USA and criminals don't have any problem
getting them; what makes you think that declaring guns illegal will get
rid of guns?

Anti-gun activists are (a few) liars and (the rest) fools.
Anyone telling you that they're going to *take* *away* some of your
rights to *protect* you is a liar--and if you believe it, you're a fool.

Two of the classic high-crime areas in the US are NYC and Washington
DC--and both of those places have handgun bans in effect.....

Come to think of it, narcotics is illegal in NYC and DC too, and guess
what? 😉
~

Outback Jon said:

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com said:

On 19 Apr 2007 13:33:35 -0700, donquijote1954

Quoted message said:

U.S. is one of the few countries that seems collectively unwilling and
politically incapable of doing anything serious to stop such things
happening again."The slayings Monday at Virginia Tech reinforced a
perception that in the U.S., it is "as easy to buy weapons as a loaf
of bread," in the words of one Russian woman on a Moscow street. "Any

Well, THAT settles it ! If some random [censored] walking the
street in Moscow says 'It's like such and such in America', it must be
true !

Besides, anyone else remember the stories of how difficult it was to buy
a loaf of bread in the old Soviet Union? 🙂

I heard it was pretty easy, as long as you didn't mind
standing in line for 4 days for 1/4 loaf of week old bread, and your
sister was sleeping with the local Commisar :-)

--
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http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

In article <[email hidden]>,

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com said:

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:23:37 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

donquijote1954 said:

Hey, we get screamed at, doored at, spitted upon, pushed around and
even killed, isn't it time we enjoy the same benefits as other
Americans? When is a cyclist going into a rage and mow down all those
careless SUV drivers who make us feel worthless?

I think you'll find your feelings of worthlessness
are rooted within. having a gun won't fix that, any
more than will driving a motor vehicle, getting drunk,
or any combination of the above.

Quoted message said:

Imagine this scenario: You get hit and as you roll down the pavement
you draw and...

1) drop the gun, causing it to uncontrolledly discharge

You're thinking of yourself last Saturday night.

Last Saturday night I was riding my bicycle around (unarmed),
to destinations where I became engaged in more creative
and sociable forms of debauchery.

I wasn't in anybody's way -- drivers could easily pass me --
but just because I was there on a bicycle, I wouldn't be
surprised if I was cussed-out by some drivers for "being in
the way."

The thought of shooting anybody didn't enter my mind,
as per usual. I don't wanna hurt anybody. That's why
I ride a bike instead of driving a car.

Quoted message said:

Guns dont'
work that way.

It's an old, inherited, single-action revolver, with
the hammer stupidly sitting on a loaded chamber.

Squirt-gun "wars" on bikes can be kinda fun. Especially
on hot summer days. Actually, on hot summer days I'm not
above requesting people washing their cars on the curbside
to give me a squirt from their garden hoses as I ride by,
and they often gladly oblige. It's quite refreshing.
Especially after a bunch of urban hill climbing, like
escaping from New Westminster BC.

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Above address is just a spam midden.
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Just A User said:

Curtis L. Russell said:

Just A User said:

Upon mentioning VA Tech, I have to put in my two cents, Cho was a
wack job, but personally I think the right to bear arm part of the
constitution needs to be re thought. In countries, such as the U.K.
where gun control laws are very strict, they don't have incidents
like those at the campus on Monday.

Well, actually they do, but not in the quantity that the U.S. has, and
they seem to be somewhat less successful, even if the intent was
there. There have been incidents in Germany and Scotland and several
in Canada.

Starting this thread - often initiated by those who like to tell
everyone what they will do to this driver or another - is pretty much
stupid. Doing it today is what makes it tasteless to boot.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

I agree it's pretty tasteless, as I pointed out, until all guns are
banned and destroyed, these types of events will happen, but until that
time comes, control is the key.

Ken

Curious, how would one go about "banning" guns? They are very easy to
manufacture. One might be able to stop the legitimate production, but
one will never stop criminal production by the enactment of any laws.
So, we're back to only law-abiding people complying and the criminal
elements still armed. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Brent P said:

In article said:

Upon mentioning VA Tech, I have to put in my two cents, Cho was a wack
job, but personally I think the right to bear arm part of the
constitution needs to be re thought. In countries, such as the U.K.
where gun control laws are very strict, they don't have incidents like
those at the campus on Monday.

1) They do.
2) Crime is up, as citizens cannot defend themselves. The criminals if
they don't have guns just use other weapons.
3) The UK government is becoming more controling. Recent legislative
activity in the UK includes having government employees busting into
people's homes to take items equal in value to any fines (such as parking
tickets) owed to the government.

Gun bans increase crime by making working conditions safe for criminals.
Allowing people to carry guns decreases crime by making working
conditions unsafe for criminals.

In the same part of the country there was another school shooting prior
to this one, except in that case students went and got their guns from
their cars and ended it at 3 dead. Relying on the police to do something
hours later is folly and bans will never keep the guns out of the hands
of someone bent on doing something.

I suppose one could make the case that if only a couple of the students
in those classrooms were packing heat (legally registered to carry a
concealed weapon), the outcome would likely have been quite different.
The fight would certainly have been more fair!

On 19 Apr 2007 16:45:34 -0700, Larry Bud <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"The U.S. is not the only country in which random acts of gun violence
have erupted in seemingly everyday circumstances to destroy lives,
families and communities," said Britain's Guardian newspaper. "But the
U.S. is one of the few countries that seems collectively unwilling and
politically incapable of doing anything serious to stop such things
happening again."The slayings Monday at Virginia Tech reinforced a
perception that in the U.S., it is "as easy to buy weapons as a loaf
of bread," in the words of one Russian woman on a Moscow street. "Any
madman can get hold of a gun," said Natalya Ivanova, a 22-year-old
secretary.

The murder rate outside of the inner cities in the US is very close to
the murder rate in Britain, and the inner cities are usually the areas
with the most constrictive gun laws.

Gee, would this relate to the statistics that "black men are
more at risk of being shot than any other group" ? To which the media
always fail to add the reality ".... shot by other black men,
typically over 'turf', drugs, gangs, and money".

--
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Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Olebiker said:

On Apr 19, 12:52 pm, [email hidden] (Brent P)

Quoted message said:

1) They do.
2) Crime is up, as citizens cannot defend themselves. The criminals if
they don't have guns just use other weapons.
3) The UK government is becoming more controling. Recent legislative
activity in the UK includes having government employees busting into
people's homes to take items equal in value to any fines (such as parking
tickets) owed to the government.

I rather appreciate a comment often attributed to Benjamin Franklin:
"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves
neither liberty nor security"

Are you sure it was Ben Franklin? It was definitely one of the framers,
but I thought it was someone else that made this statement.

I would not "pack" unless there was a real threat against me. I've
felt road rage as a driver and a cyclist and I don't like it. A gun
would only make things worse.

"donquijote1954" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

"should cyclists pack guns"

This one does when the situation to need one might exist, and I do it
legally. But I'm not crazy and obsessed like Donquijote and would never
think about opening fire on a big bad evil SUV.

Larry Bud said:

Quoted message said:

"The U.S. is not the only country in which random acts of gun violence
have erupted in seemingly everyday circumstances to destroy lives,
families and communities," said Britain's Guardian newspaper. "But the
U.S. is one of the few countries that seems collectively unwilling and
politically incapable of doing anything serious to stop such things
happening again."The slayings Monday at Virginia Tech reinforced a
perception that in the U.S., it is "as easy to buy weapons as a loaf
of bread," in the words of one Russian woman on a Moscow street. "Any
madman can get hold of a gun," said Natalya Ivanova, a 22-year-old
secretary.

The murder rate outside of the inner cities in the US is very close to
the murder rate in Britain, and the inner cities are usually the areas
with the most constrictive gun laws.

^ restrictive ?

Good. Quarantine the inner cities , have custom checks and body
searches on everyone entering or leaving the inner cities and get back
to us. The arguement is idiotic. If I can buy a gun in Virginia or
Maryland and take the Metro back to DC. then the law is useless.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com said:

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:18:19 -0400, Just A User

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell said:

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:51:02 -0400, Just A User
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Upon mentioning VA Tech, I have to put in my two cents, Cho was a wack
> job, but personally I think the right to bear arm part of the
> constitution needs to be re thought. In countries, such as the U.K.
> where gun control laws are very strict, they don't have incidents like
> those at the campus on Monday.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, actually they do, but not in the quantity that the U.S. has, and
they seem to be somewhat less successful, even if the intent was
there. There have been incidents in Germany and Scotland and several
in Canada.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Starting this thread - often initiated by those who like to tell
everyone what they will do to this driver or another - is pretty much
stupid. Doing it today is what makes it tasteless to boot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

I agree it's pretty tasteless, as I pointed out, until all guns are
banned and destroyed, these types of events will happen, but until that
time comes, control is the key.

Quoted message said:

Ken

Yeh, right. Let's only let the Government have them.

Where did you get that one, Mein Kampf ?

Don't you know any history? The Nazi introduced gun control about 5-6
years after attaining power. They were not particularally worried
about a few burgers with guns.

Quoted message said:

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Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available onlinehttp://pmilligan.net/palm/

jcr said:

Brent P said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Just A User wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Upon mentioning VA Tech, I have to put in my two cents, Cho was a wack
job, but personally I think the right to bear arm part of the
constitution needs to be re thought. In countries, such as the U.K.
where gun control laws are very strict, they don't have incidents like
those at the campus on Monday.

Quoted message said:

1) They do.
2) Crime is up, as citizens cannot defend themselves. The criminals if
they don't have guns just use other weapons.
3) The UK government is becoming more controling. Recent legislative
activity in the UK includes having government employees busting into
people's homes to take items equal in value to any fines (such as parking
tickets) owed to the government.

Quoted message said:

Gun bans increase crime by making working conditions safe for criminals.
Allowing people to carry guns decreases crime by making working
conditions unsafe for criminals.

Quoted message said:

In the same part of the country there was another school shooting prior
to this one, except in that case students went and got their guns from
their cars and ended it at 3 dead. Relying on the police to do something
hours later is folly and bans will never keep the guns out of the hands
of someone bent on doing something.

I suppose one could make the case that if only a couple of the students
in those classrooms were packing heat (legally registered to carry a
concealed weapon), the outcome would likely have been quite different.
The fight would certainly have been more fair!

Certainly would have been. On the other hand do you really want a
bunch of 19 year old students, whooping it up in the local univ bars
and carrying all sorts of heavy weaponry when the males get into a
strutting contest? Hell, you'd probably lose more people on a normal
Saturday night.

Check the odds. Mad psyco vs. [censored] adolescent.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada