Shimano Components Question

hello mate

i run DA10 speed and i got one of the very first shipments in aust in mid oct last year.

now i havent had any trouble with mine besides the gears like i mean the gears have to be set rite cause if they are just out a little they play up realy bad.

but if you have the gears set right it has been great.

what sorta trouble have you been having??.
i run a bike shop and i would like to hear your feed back.

one thing i can say is that my DA10 speed works alot better when i put teflon cables in and teflon coat gear casing as well.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
I assume that by "baseless generalisation", you're talking about my post where I say that Dura-Ace is sometimes said to be less durable than Ultegra. First, it has to be a generalisation because no-one can speak for every individual groupset, I am just talking about Ultegra and DA groupsets in general.

Durability is just a stinky fish that people can't resist generalizing about in general. Show me the data!.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
Durability is just a stinky fish that people can't resist generalizing about in general. Show me the data!.

Well I don't have any data, I haven't done statistical studies or anything, I'm just a guy who is interested in cycling and has read around a bit and spoken to people about it and am passing on something that I heard, in the hope it might be helpful. That's what people do on forums!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
Well I don't have any data, I haven't done statistical studies or anything, I'm just a guy who is interested in cycling and has read around a bit and spoken to people about it and am passing on something that I heard, in the hope it might be helpful. That's what people do on forums!

OK,but what if it's hooey?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
OK,but what if it's hooey?

Well, like I said, the original poster can do what they want with it, they can ignore it if they like, or they can do a little research and check it out for themselves. If it turns out to be hooey, no harm's been done. But if it turns out to be true, maybe I've helped them avoid an expensive mistake. That's fair isn't it?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
Well, like I said, the original poster can do what they want with it, they can ignore it if they like, or they can do a little research and check it out for themselves. If it turns out to be hooey, no harm's been done. But if it turns out to be true, maybe I've helped them avoid an expensive mistake. That's fair isn't it?

Well, what if it's hooey and they just buy it?? Otherwise,alot of needless effort involved in sorting wheat from chaff.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
Well, what if it's hooey and they just buy it?? Otherwise,alot of needless effort involved in sorting wheat from chaff.

C'mon, credit people with enough intelligence not to just blindly believe anything they read, especially a post in which I admitted that it wasn't proven hard fact. And what you describe as "sorting wheat from chaff" is just the research that anyone who's going to spend their money ought to be doing.

Sorting wheat from chaff? You've used that line before, boudreaux, but usually to the opposite end. You usually use it in defense of your tendency to pepper your posts with ridicule (ie, sure i'm a jerk, but sort wheat from chaff -- i'm being helpful).

Byrne made a casual reference to something he's heard, and that's how he described it. If you've got a contrary opinion, quit the nonsense and just explain what your thoughts regarding Ultegra and Dura Ace are. Less chaff, in other words.

6.47, thanks for asking. My DA10 shifting has gotten pretty foul in the rear, roughly how you'd expect a case of cable stretch to muddle things -- we're simply having a devil of a time dialing the tension properly. The usual balance point between properly high and low tension is, at the moment, completely elusive.

H and L screws are spot on. Any magic tricks to help speed my toubleshooting along?

lokstah, ta for the support in your last msg. About your DA 10 kit, I'm sure anything I can think of you've already thought of, but FWIW, here's what I picked up from fiddling with my 10-speed Centaur kit:

-How does the exposed bit of cable attached to the derailleur look? If it's bendy/kinked/anchored at a wierd angle, that might cause issues.
-Is the cable guide plate under the bottom bracket shell well lubed? Could be friction in there that might mess stuff up.
-Is the little screw at the point where the derailleur attaches to the hanger set right? (I think it's called the B-screw or something like that). If it's too loose it can make upshifts a bit clunky.

Hope you get enjoy the Dura-Ace sweetness soon...

Thanks for the suggestions, Byrne. Unfortunately, the cable looks pristine and well-installed. I haven't closely inspected the plastic cable guide under the BB, so that's worth a look, but I'm willing to bet it's in good shape. The B-Screw is the little nob that sets the derailleur body and cage position, if I'm not mistaken. Seems to be set right.

All in all, though, this is the right track. I mean, when this happens, you only have one option: walk back through the setup checking all your bases as you go. I still suspect I've just developed a particularly tricky stretch-problem, but only a thorough checklist review is going to leave me satisfied.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by lokstah
Thanks for the suggestions, Byrne. Unfortunately, the cable looks pristine and well-installed. I haven't closely inspected the plastic cable guide under the BB, so that's worth a look, but I'm willing to bet it's in good shape. The B-Screw is the little nob that sets the derailleur body and cage position, if I'm not mistaken. Seems to be set right.

All in all, though, this is the right track. I mean, when this happens, you only have one option: walk back through the setup checking all your bases as you go. I still suspect I've just developed a particularly tricky stretch-problem, but only a thorough checklist review is going to leave me satisfied.

Is this on your new rolling artwork masterpiece? If so I was just wondering if it could have anything to do with the cable housings "settling" into place at the exit/entry points of the internal routing on the Klein frame?

Sadly, flatteringly, yes... this is the fancy-pants frame we're talking about. Rode like it was built with superior alien technology for about a week and a half, at which point the usual settling and stretching quirks materialized in an unusually severe fashion.

I can't rule out that the frame's intricate routing isn't part of the problem, but I'll replace the entire drivetrain with Tiagra before I give up on the frame.

As this seems to have morphed into a 'fettling' thread I thought I'd ask has anyone experienced a disparity between indexing when the bike is on a stand and when being ridden and under load? Given new components (cables, chain, cassette) why should miss-shifts occur when indexing was perfect on the stand?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by GuyStevens
As this seems to have morphed into a 'fettling' thread I thought I'd ask has anyone experienced a disparity between indexing when the bike is on a stand and when being ridden and under load? Given new components (cables, chain, cassette) why should miss-shifts occur when indexing was perfect on the stand?

Good point. Currently, my rig performs much more poorly under load, and deceptively ok in a workstand. Not good, but ok, at least. Less than 60 miles on the whole shebang.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by GuyStevens
As this seems to have morphed into a 'fettling' thread I thought I'd ask has anyone experienced a disparity between indexing when the bike is on a stand and when being ridden and under load? Given new components (cables, chain, cassette) why should miss-shifts occur when indexing was perfect on the stand?

Yeah, I've noticed this a lot too. I reckon it's because the drivetrain's under virtually no load in a stand as compared to when being ridden (even if you relax the pressure on the pedals when you shift, you're probably pushing them a lot harder than you do on a stand). Also, bikes can flex when they're being sat on, and I guess this might throw alignment off.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by lokstah
Sadly, flatteringly, yes... this is the fancy-pants frame we're talking about. Rode like it was built with superior alien technology for about a week and a half, at which point the usual settling and stretching quirks materialized in an unusually severe fashion.

lokstah - when you were breaking in the new components did you happen to get caught in any rain or wet conditions? Only asking because generally in the case of bad shifting with new components all around, it can be resolved by changing cables and housing (even if they are brand new). Perhaps the housing and cables are contaminated with dirt or sand, a kink in the cable when you installed them originally can also cause havoc. A new set of cables is an inexpensive way of trying to resolve shifting problems.

KGnagey, thanks for the input. Unfortunately, no, I've been treating the bike like it's made of glass. It's been on a handful of shorter trips, ranging from a few miles to just under 30, all in good weather, and over relatively clean paved roads.

The cables and housings all look sparkly and new.

Is it possible that some of the cable housings were cut less than perfectly, causing left-over housing to squish up inside the bosses on the frame? That would probably mess the indexing up pretty well.

Figured it out; got her back in form. All the above suggestions weren't far off the mark.

The Jagwire downtube inlet/adjustor had gone a bit awry; it needed to be sort of re-seated and dialed back some before the rear barrel could be used to fine-tune.

It sure was ugly -- a truly awful rattling, skipping, bumpy mess. Rode it home tonight; felt great. Nice to be back on it.

A big thanks to all who offered suggestions and encouragement!

All right!!! I was just going to suggest shortening your chain by one link because that solved the problem for me once but glad you got it figured out in time for PRIMAVERA NEXT WEEK!

Can't wait to see the Lokstahcycle in person.