Sheryl does good

Quoted message said:

On 16 Nov 2005 21:29:44 -0800, Mad Dog <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Honest, Cash had been getting no mainstream respect for years.

Just because you missed it doesn't mean it wasn't there. Go back and search out
the mainstream reviews of the 4 American Recordings discs. Is Rolling Stone
mainstream enough for you? Oh, or do you refer to the Nashville establishment
mainstream press? They never respected Johnny, so what's the big deal?

Curtis L. Russell says...

Quoted message said:

Mainstream isn't the same as it once was.

That's for certain. And it's kind of a joke talking about Cash and mainstream
because he helped destroy established Nashville mainstream!

Quoted message said:

So was Alison Krauss and Union Station mainstream before 'O Brother,
Where Art though'?

Within folk/blues/bluegrass? Hell yeah.

h squared says...

Quoted message said:

every day he would assess the quality of my
character based on what tape i had in my walkman that day (yeah,
portable cd players weren't that common back when my old ass was in
college).

Character quality assessment seems a bit extreme, but when I'm invited into
someone's home I like to look at the music, books, movies, artwork, etc. they
have - assuming they are in open view. It tells you something about them and
although it may not be straightforward to interpret, it's interesting. It's
also a great way to get introduced to stuff you've never seen, heard, read, etc.
I really like to see the kinds of music compilations people put together. That
can be pretty personal and revealing.

I was spending time with some friends that had recently married and they had
quite a few LPs sitting dormant. The dude asked me to guess which he'd brought
to the home and which she had. That was too easy! But I'd known him for years
so it wasn't a fair test (but I had not seen his LPs previously).

Mad Dog said:

Bill C says...

Quoted message said:

It amazes me to see them falling all over each other now to honor the
man when nobody gave a [censored] 10 years ago.

(MD replied):

Quoted message said:

You are so out of touch it's not even funny.

I think you misunderstood, Dog.

Merle Haggard played in Austin ("The Music Capital of the World"😉
awhile back. A few little newspaper ads, no "Hey Merle's coming" on the
Clear Channel "country" station, at least during my usual short listen
during the "kid commute".

It's that kind of "[censored]" (money talkin'😉. It's nothing new, either.
Many years ago I heard an interview with none other than Chet Atkins
(who owed a lot to Merle Travis to name one figure) where he talked
about expunging fiddles and banjos from the Nashville sound. "Pop goes
the Country".

("Heeere's Johnny!!!): http://www.johnnycash.com/billboard.htm

JC had Bob Dylan on his TV show. And played the heavy (super job IMHO)
in a Columbo episode. And had a hit with the following, during a
certain era of social unrest:

"What is Truth" Johnny Cash

The old man turned off the radio
Said, "Where did all of the old songs go
Kids sure play funny music these days
They play it in the strangest ways"
Said, "it looks to me like they've all gone wild
It was peaceful back when I was a child"
Well, man, could it be that the girls and boys
Are trying to be heard above your noise?
And the lonely voice of youth cries "What is truth?"

A little boy of three sittin' on the floor
Looks up and says, "Daddy, what is war?"
"son, that's when people fight and die"
The little boy of three says "Daddy, why?"
A young man of seventeen in Sunday school
Being taught the golden rule
And by the time another year has gone around
It may be his turn to lay his life down
Can you blame the voice of youth for asking
"What is truth?"

A young man sittin' on the witness stand
The man with the book says "Raise your hand"
"Repeat after me, I solemnly swear"
The man looked down at his long hair
And although the young man solemnly swore
Nobody seems to hear anymore
And it didn't really matter if the truth was there
It was the cut of his clothes and the length of his hair
And the lonely voice of youth cries
"What is truth?"

The young girl dancing to the latest beat
Has found new ways to move her feet
The young man speaking in the city square
Is trying to tell somebody that he cares
Yeah, the ones that you're calling wild
Are going to be the leaders in a little while
This old world's wakin' to a new born day
And I solemnly swear that it'll be their way
You better help the voice of youth find
"What is truth?"

Garth Brooks seems to be sniffing around again. Maybe he'll recut that
one (sarcasm off).

BTW, Cash's solo performance at Emo's (6th Street rock bar) during SXSW
1994 is legend in this town. The stool he sat on is nailed to the
ceiling. Not the same as Clear Channel airplay, maybe, but...

Thanks for the push on the Rubin-Cash material. Maybe I can pick up
that "God Bless Johnny Cash" bumper sticker on the same trip. --D-y

"Mad Dog" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Oh, or do you refer to the Nashville establishment
mainstream press? They never respected Johnny, so what's the big deal?

They respected him early, but not late in his career. Hence, the famous
full-page "finger" ad.

JF

Quoted message said:

JC had Bob Dylan on his TV show. And played the heavy (super job IMHO)
in a Columbo episode.

I seem to recall he did a song on a U2 album in the nineties (Zooropa
perhaps) as well.

h squared says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

every day he would assess the quality of my
character based on what tape i had in my walkman that day (yeah,
portable cd players weren't that common back when my old ass was in
college).

Mad Dog said:

Character quality assessment seems a bit extreme, but when I'm invited into
someone's home I like to look at the music, books, movies, artwork, etc. they
have - assuming they are in open view. It tells you something about them and
although it may not be straightforward to interpret, it's interesting.

Heather has the kama sutra everywhere and a the animals cd somewhere in
her cd case (apropos of which I wonder what happened to the house of the
rising sun when the hurricane hit).

Mad Dog said:

h squared says...

Quoted message said:

every day he would assess the quality of my
character based on what tape i had in my walkman that day (yeah,
portable cd players weren't that common back when my old ass was in
college).

Character quality assessment seems a bit extreme, but when I'm invited into
someone's home I like to look at the music, books, movies, artwork, etc. they
have - assuming they are in open view. It tells you something about them and
although it may not be straightforward to interpret, it's interesting. It's
also a great way to get introduced to stuff you've never seen, heard, read, etc.
I really like to see the kinds of music compilations people put together. That
can be pretty personal and revealing.

I was spending time with some friends that had recently married and they had
quite a few LPs sitting dormant. The dude asked me to guess which he'd brought
to the home and which she had. That was too easy! But I'd known him for years
so it wasn't a fair test (but I had not seen his LPs previously).

I have occasionally been shocked to see the music collections of people
I THOUGHT I'd known. But only occasionally.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Mad Dog said:

Bill C says...

Quoted message said:

It amazes me to see them falling all over each other now to honor the
man when nobody gave a [censored] 10 years ago.

You are so out of touch it's not even funny. If you'd said "12 years ago", you
would have been closer to the mark, but still out to lunch. In '94, Cash
released his first American Recordings set to critical acclaim followed by a
huge groundswell of new popularity. Back from the ashes for what, like the 5th
time? Many of the new Cash fans were young kids that knew nothing of his
legacy. If you don't own American Recordings 1, you ought to check it out. It
is a bit uneven in a few spots in my opinion but as I listen to it more and
more, my appreciation grows. The good stuff is full value, and the simple
production puts his voice right where it belongs out front. The audiophile mags
even went ga-ga.

Quoted message said:

"Hurt" brought him back, along with his courage to go with a whole
different style of production, and work with different people.

Hurt was on the 4th American Recordings disc, released not long before his
death. He'd been on a roll for a decade by the time Hurt made waves. Sorry you
missed it - he closed out his career with an incredible flourish that included 4
discs during the decade you declared to be empty space. Not bad for an old guy
that had endured more pain than many of us could survive. The first and second
American Recordins discs generated big sales, great reviews and sellout
audiences at his shows. All the attention was well-deserved. If you missed the
second American Recordings disc (Unchained) from '98, you owe it to yourself to
check it out. It is arguably the finest album of his entire career, covering
Beck's "Rowboat", Soundgarden's "Rusty Cage, Tom Petty's "Southern Accents, Don
Gibson's "Sea of Heartbreak plus some excellent tunes he wrote, including
"Country Boy", "Mean Eyed Cat" and "Meet Me In Heaven". His versions of "I've
Been Everywhere" and "I Never Picked Cotton" are definitive to say the least.
Only Johnny could cover such a range of material with creativity, soul and a
distinctive voice.

Quoted message said:

There's not anybody who's more popular that has talked for more
Americans than he did.

He still is the man and it's cool that you know something of him, but your "10
years ago" comment completely disrespects the turnaround he and Rick Rubin
pulled off a bit over 11 years ago. Their story is roots Americana at its best
and if you don't know it, search it out.

Quoted message said:

Nice to see Sheryl there, but I have no idea what the hell she has to
do with his legacy.

She gave an interview a while back about loving his stuff as a kid, meeting him
in his later years, etc. I like lots of her music but found her version of Ring
of Fire tonight to be limp. The show as a whole didn't hold a candle to the CMT
memorial shown not long after his death. But I'll still go see the movie.

Dude relax this isn't a course with a final.
The 10 years was a rough offhand guess at the time. seems like I was
pretty close with it. Yeah I did miss the beginning of his comeback,
not a whole lot of it was getting played on Armed Forces Radio in
Germany.
The point was that it's really cool to see the respect he's getting
now after the studios in Nashville basically dumped him as last years
news. I agree that the CMT tribute was a lot better, but hey this was
still cool.
I really don't listen to diddley-squat of the new Country stuff, just
doesn't do anything for me. I know that I've never listened to a whole
Sheryl Crow album and I'm not interested, but it was cool to see her
there. The closest thing to modern country that I still listen to would
be the "outlaws" stuff and Hank Jr., Haggard, etc. If I'm listening
to country at all it's them or real old stuff. Doing more Bluegrass and
Doc Watson kinda stuff if I'm listening to country related stuff.
[censored] I'm not stupid enough to pretend to be anything more than a
casual music fans around here. There are people here who really do know
their [censored] inside and out, and I'm not one of them. So if you want to
debate the fine points it's not going to be with me.
Bill C

Quoted message said:

Mad Dog said:

Bill C says...

Quoted message said:

It amazes me to see them falling all over each other now to honor the
man when nobody gave a [censored] 10 years ago.

(MD replied):

Quoted message said:

You are so out of touch it's not even funny.

I think you misunderstood, Dog.

Merle Haggard played in Austin ("The Music Capital of the World"😉
awhile back. A few little newspaper ads, no "Hey Merle's coming" on the
Clear Channel "country" station, at least during my usual short listen
during the "kid commute".

It's that kind of "[censored]" (money talkin'😉. It's nothing new, either.
Many years ago I heard an interview with none other than Chet Atkins
(who owed a lot to Merle Travis to name one figure) where he talked
about expunging fiddles and banjos from the Nashville sound. "Pop goes
the Country".

("Heeere's Johnny!!!): http://www.johnnycash.com/billboard.htm

JC had Bob Dylan on his TV show. And played the heavy (super job IMHO)
in a Columbo episode. And had a hit with the following, during a
certain era of social unrest:

"What is Truth" Johnny Cash

The old man turned off the radio
Said, "Where did all of the old songs go
Kids sure play funny music these days
They play it in the strangest ways"
Said, "it looks to me like they've all gone wild
It was peaceful back when I was a child"
Well, man, could it be that the girls and boys
Are trying to be heard above your noise?
And the lonely voice of youth cries "What is truth?"

A little boy of three sittin' on the floor
Looks up and says, "Daddy, what is war?"
"son, that's when people fight and die"
The little boy of three says "Daddy, why?"
A young man of seventeen in Sunday school
Being taught the golden rule
And by the time another year has gone around
It may be his turn to lay his life down
Can you blame the voice of youth for asking
"What is truth?"

A young man sittin' on the witness stand
The man with the book says "Raise your hand"
"Repeat after me, I solemnly swear"
The man looked down at his long hair
And although the young man solemnly swore
Nobody seems to hear anymore
And it didn't really matter if the truth was there
It was the cut of his clothes and the length of his hair
And the lonely voice of youth cries
"What is truth?"

The young girl dancing to the latest beat
Has found new ways to move her feet
The young man speaking in the city square
Is trying to tell somebody that he cares
Yeah, the ones that you're calling wild
Are going to be the leaders in a little while
This old world's wakin' to a new born day
And I solemnly swear that it'll be their way
You better help the voice of youth find
"What is truth?"

Garth Brooks seems to be sniffing around again. Maybe he'll recut that
one (sarcasm off).

BTW, Cash's solo performance at Emo's (6th Street rock bar) during SXSW
1994 is legend in this town. The stool he sat on is nailed to the
ceiling. Not the same as Clear Channel airplay, maybe, but...

Thanks for the push on the Rubin-Cash material. Maybe I can pick up
that "God Bless Johnny Cash" bumper sticker on the same trip. --D-y

Thanks
That was exactly my point. Charlie Pride, Tom T Hall, George Jones, all
the older artists are going through hell to get anything out there on
their own today. At least George got one Screw-U album out that did
pretty well a couple of years ago, but the studios just want the newest
"boy wonder band" for a couple of hype albums then on to the next quick
cash cow rather than working to build artists for long term steady
sales. It must really suck from the studio point of view when artists
actually start to think, and stand up for themselves. Gotta dump them
before that point.
Bill C

Jim Flom says...

Quoted message said:

Mad Dog wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, or do you refer to the Nashville establishment
mainstream press? They never respected Johnny, so what's the big deal?

Quoted message said:

They respected him early, but not late in his career.

That's debatable. Fairly early in his career, he helped to put an end to the
established practices in Nashville. You know - using the same studio musicians
on every record and that hyper-sweet Atkins production. Yecch - a little of
that syrup goes a long way. There were many in the press that didn't like
seeing Chet Atkin's system take it on the chin and they alternately ignored Cash
or tried to diss him more openly. He got kicked out of the Grand Ole Opry at a
pretty young age, so what kind of respect was that?

If young Cash got any respect from the mainstream Nashville press, it was
because the people spoke with their money. They loved his music and maybe even
more importantly, what he stood for. How can you be a critic and completely
ignore your constituency? Reminds me of the early days of Led Zeppelin, Frank
Zappa and others. Any of you actually read the real-time Rolling Stone reviews
of the early Zep LPs? They HATED them. Years later, after the public had
clearly spoken, "improved" reviews that glowed all over the legacy were
generated. Such is the fate of those that dare to do something different.
Remember, the "mainstream" press dissed Beethoven's late string quartets.
Ludwig got the last laugh on that one too.

Quoted message said:

Hence, the famous full-page "finger" ad.

That's a classic. I saw it as meaning: "You ain't rid of me yet!"

Mark & Steven Bornfeld says...

Quoted message said:

I have occasionally been shocked to see the music collections of people
I THOUGHT I'd known. But only occasionally.

And that's when the fun begins!

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I think you misunderstood, Dog.

I understand your perspective too. But he was always an outlaw. Always.

Quoted message said:

"What is truth?"

One of my favorites. Johnny transcended all boundaries because it was
impossible to stereotype him. He never seemed to get out of touch with the
youth.

Quoted message said:

Garth Brooks seems to be sniffing around again. Maybe he'll recut that
one (sarcasm off).

He better work on an apropriate dance/prance act before cutting that tune.

Quoted message said:

BTW, Cash's solo performance at Emo's (6th Street rock bar) during SXSW
1994 is legend in this town. The stool he sat on is nailed to the
ceiling. Not the same as Clear Channel airplay, maybe, but...

Right on.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the push on the Rubin-Cash material. Maybe I can pick up
that "God Bless Johnny Cash" bumper sticker on the same trip.

There is also a posthumous 5-CD box put out by Rubin. It has its moments but I
would not recommend it before the AR CDs released when he was alive. You can
occasionally snag the 5 CD box cheap on ebay. What I find gut wrenching is that
it's like you hear the life flowing out of the man over his last few years. He
seemed so impervious to every health problem, every bit of adversity for so
long, I kinda assumed he'd break Methusala's record. When June died, it was
like he just dotted a few "t's" and then went away. The CMT memorial had a
section where he talked about death and how he looked forward to it. It was
amazingly powerful - like real courage, no [censored].

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Folk, Bluegrass, traditional country, and Jazz are cool because they
chronicle the people.

Other forms of music also chronicle the people. The problem is that it takes
thought and talent to do it well. With pop music all the thought goes
into making money from what is at best mediocre music. Very fomulaic. When
you use the same formula, you get the same output which gets old quickly.
Occasionally someone does make a good pop song.

Quoted message said:

Sheryl seems to keep appearing on the right side of things, but I'm
just not sure about her.

I liked some of her music before she hooked up with Lance. To me she is just
another entertainer, nothing more.
---------------------
Alex

Bill C says...

Quoted message said:

Dude relax this isn't a course with a final.

This is rbr - in case you forgot. Any opinion is subject to scrutiny.

Quoted message said:

The point was that it's really cool to see the respect he's getting
now after the studios in Nashville basically dumped him as last years
news.

OK, you don't want to debate so I won't disect that. I agree that even belated
respect is better than none at all. But if you saw the sales figures of the
Rubin-produced stuff, I think it would raise both eyebrows. Respect comes in
many flavors.

Quoted message said:

I really don't listen to diddley-squat of the new Country stuff, just
doesn't do anything for me.

Agreed. It's like pablum with extra sugar and not even brown sugar.

Quoted message said:

If I'm listening
to country at all it's them or real old stuff. Doing more Bluegrass and
Doc Watson kinda stuff if I'm listening to country related stuff.

Doc is really cool. Really old country, when folk, blues and fiddle tunes
mingled, that's great stuff. It fits in with anything musically: metal,
hip-hop, industrial, classical, you name it.

Bill C says...

I thought you didn't want to talk about this any more?

Quoted message said:

That was exactly my point.

Actually, that's exactly MY point...

Cash wasn't going to ever be stopped by a machine. George Jones might be
strapped to Nashville for eternity, but Johnny was gonna do his thing. Who
woulda thought that Rick Rubin would have told Johnny to bring his guitar, (and
nothing/nobody else) come into his living room and play music? Get back to what
it was all about. Who? Me, for one. I wasn't surprised by it. Some people
just can't be stopped. It had to come out.

Quoted message said:

It must really suck from the studio point of view when artists
actually start to think, and stand up for themselves. Gotta dump them
before that point.

For sure. But it's a machine and too many musicians resolve themselves to being
another cog because that's the way that's perceived to be the easiest and most
likely to yield money, blow jobs and good drugs. Who needs art?

h squared says...

Quoted message said:

i was just listening to the brave combo song "burn slow" (i offered you
my soul like a humble sacrifice - you put it under a glass then you put
it on ice - on ice, on ice, on ice, on ice, on ice, on ice, on ice, on
ice)

Is that off of an LP?

Quoted message said:

http://www.brave.com/bo/sounds/stairway_to_heaven.mp3

I've heard that before. Why is it disturbing to you?

Mad Dog said:

The CMT memorial had a
section where he talked about death and how he looked forward to it. It was
amazingly powerful - like real courage, no [censored].

Well, the last album was pretty much an old man embracing death. Great
album, great selections, even if the voice was definitely giving way
at times. Great album to give to someone suicidal that you really
don't care for.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Mad Dog said:

Quoted message said:

If I'm listening
to country at all it's them or real old stuff. Doing more Bluegrass and
Doc Watson kinda stuff if I'm listening to country related stuff.

Doc is really cool. Really old country, when folk, blues and fiddle tunes
mingled, that's great stuff. It fits in with anything musically: metal,
hip-hop, industrial, classical, you name it.

From 'Old Joe Clark' to 'Summertime' on Doc and Dawg to 'Knights in
White Satin' on 'Round the Table Again, and still playing concerts.
About the only problem is some of the same jokes show up over and
over. That and he stopped playing banjo for the most part a long time
ago. At least he stopped telling about the skinned cat about then as
well...

Interestingly, some of his early recorded stuff wasn't far off
Tennessee Ernie Ford before Ford becaome a TV star. More blues and
country boogie than people would guess, and Ford had a really good
backup band into his TV days.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell says...

Quoted message said:

Great album to give to someone suicidal that you really
don't care for.

No wonder so many "friends" made sure I had a copy. Anybody need a copy?