Saiz, doping.

gym.gravity said:

Quoted message said:

I've been away (mentally) for a bit. I haven't heard anything about
doping in a while. I thought maybe the sport was clean again. Then I
saw that Saiz was arrested on doping charges. Is this something to do
with Heras or is this something new?

Robert Chung said:

Doping? I always thought his riders did well because of the way he shouted
"venga venga venga venga".

BALCO are working on a new drug called Venga(tm).

Quoted message said:

It's well known on RBR[*] that excessive bleach jobs
are an attempt to hide doping, by throwing off hair tests.

That's so late 90's.

Quoted message said:

[*] Disclaimer: facts well known on RBR are not to be
used for factual purposes outside of RBR, remain
the property of RBR, and may be recalled at any time.
Cash redemption value 1/20 of one cent.

So therefore $1 rbr = 1/20 c US
Perhaps the rbr currency should be renamed the dumas.

rbr minister of finance

trg said:

BTW, I'm sure that now that they got Saiz, the sport is clean again. He was
the last rotten one left.

Please crosspost to rec.bicycles.irony

Donald Munro said:

Robert Chung said:

Doping? I always thought his riders did well because of the way he
shouted "venga venga venga venga".

BALCO are working on a new drug called Venga(tm).

And sure enough there's a Benelux connection:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000JBCC/103-0167279-0302252#R2ECDMYKXGSEOX

--
E. Dronkert

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, bob sullivan

(') said:

Quoted message said:

The police are also looking at alleged links between Fuentes -- who is
now practising as a gynaecologist -- and Tour of Italy leader Ivan
Basso, who rides for the CSC team.

You know, I was just thinking to myself a couple of days ago, "With
Basso riding so much better than everyone else in the Giro, I wonder
how long it'll be before someone accuses him of doping..."

So was I. Damn. I do very much hope not.

He's a top pro.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, bob sullivan

(') said:

> The police are also looking at alleged links between Fuentes -- who is
> now practising as a gynaecologist -- and Tour of Italy leader Ivan
> Basso, who rides for the CSC team.

You know, I was just thinking to myself a couple of days ago, "With
Basso riding so much better than everyone else in the Giro, I wonder
how long it'll be before someone accuses him of doping..."

So was I. Damn. I do very much hope not.

He's a top pro.

And your point is?

"Allez1" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, bob
sullivan ([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

>> The police are also looking at alleged links between Fuentes --
>> who is now practising as a gynaecologist -- and Tour of Italy
>> leader Ivan Basso, who rides for the CSC team.
>
> You know, I was just thinking to myself a couple of days ago, "With
> Basso riding so much better than everyone else in the Giro, I
> wonder how long it'll be before someone accuses him of doping..."

So was I. Damn. I do very much hope not.

He's a top pro.

And your point is?

My point would be this: I think that Basso, like other top riders, at a
certain point in his career had the choice between riding clean and going
for the next level in terms of results. He may have been given this choice
at CSC, it may have influenced his switch from Fassa, or perhaps he started
using the moment he became a pro. My suspicions wouldn't be different if he
currently was in 5th place.

I don't believe all top riders dope. Perhaps Cunego's clean: apparently he
has rare natural blood values that might make a certain amount of blood
doping unnecessary. McGee has always been very vocal against doping and
he's one of those riders who seem to be full of talent but never quite
deliver. Perhaps the 2004 giro top ten was relatively clean, I don't know.
Honchar is not above suspicion, having been refused tour entry because of
suspicious blood values.

Whatever the case, Basso has certainly increased his capabilities
dramatically and he deserves a huge amount of respect for that. His TT
training is likely the best of the field and I think Riis is is the best
DS.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Allez1" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 24 May 2006 08:37:31 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>in message <[email hidden]>, bob
>sullivan ([email hidden]'😉 wrote:
>
>>> The police are also looking at alleged links between Fuentes --
>>> who is now practising as a gynaecologist -- and Tour of Italy
>>> leader Ivan Basso, who rides for the CSC team.
>>
>> You know, I was just thinking to myself a couple of days ago, "With
>> Basso riding so much better than everyone else in the Giro, I
>> wonder how long it'll be before someone accuses him of doping..."
>
>So was I. Damn. I do very much hope not.

He's a top pro.

And your point is?

My point would be this: I think that Basso, like other top riders, at a
certain point in his career had the choice between riding clean and going
for the next level in terms of results. He may have been given this choice
at CSC, it may have influenced his switch from Fassa, or perhaps he
started
using the moment he became a pro. My suspicions wouldn't be different if
he
currently was in 5th place.

I don't believe all top riders dope. Perhaps Cunego's clean: apparently he
has rare natural blood values that might make a certain amount of blood
doping unnecessary. McGee has always been very vocal against doping and
he's one of those riders who seem to be full of talent but never quite
deliver.

Hamilton was also vocal about not doping, particularly after getting caught
out.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps the 2004 giro top ten was relatively clean, I don't know.
Honchar is not above suspicion, having been refused tour entry because of
suspicious blood values.

Whatever the case, Basso has certainly increased his capabilities
dramatically and he deserves a huge amount of respect for that. His TT
training is likely the best of the field and I think Riis is is the best
DS.

At the risk of mis-stating your position, it seems that the cycling culture
has created a situation where it is impossible to really know what is real
and what is drug assisted leaving every dominant performance in doubt as to
drug usage.

"Allez1" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Allez1" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 24 May 2006 08:37:31 +0100, Simon Brooke
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>in message <[email hidden]>, bob
>>sullivan ([email hidden]'😉 wrote:
>>
>>>> The police are also looking at alleged links between Fuentes --
>>>> who is now practising as a gynaecologist -- and Tour of Italy
>>>> leader Ivan Basso, who rides for the CSC team.
>>>
>>> You know, I was just thinking to myself a couple of days ago,
>>> "With Basso riding so much better than everyone else in the Giro,
>>> I wonder how long it'll be before someone accuses him of
>>> doping..."
>>
>>So was I. Damn. I do very much hope not.
>
> He's a top pro.

And your point is?

My point would be this: I think that Basso, like other top riders, at
a certain point in his career had the choice between riding clean and
going for the next level in terms of results. He may have been given
this choice at CSC, it may have influenced his switch from Fassa, or
perhaps he started
using the moment he became a pro. My suspicions wouldn't be different
if he
currently was in 5th place.

I don't believe all top riders dope. Perhaps Cunego's clean:
apparently he has rare natural blood values that might make a certain
amount of blood doping unnecessary. McGee has always been very vocal
against doping and he's one of those riders who seem to be full of
talent but never quite deliver.

Hamilton was also vocal about not doping, particularly after getting
caught out.

Yes, that's true. As I said: what do I really know. I recall however
that some riders claimed McGee had a specifically 'clean' reputation
among his colleagues. The opposite of Dave Bruylandts, who was known as
'Dr. Dave'.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps the 2004 giro top ten was relatively clean, I don't know.
Honchar is not above suspicion, having been refused tour entry
because of suspicious blood values.

Whatever the case, Basso has certainly increased his capabilities
dramatically and he deserves a huge amount of respect for that. His
TT training is likely the best of the field and I think Riis is is
the best DS.

At the risk of mis-stating your position, it seems that the cycling
culture has created a situation where it is impossible to really know
what is real and what is drug assisted leaving every dominant
performance in doubt as to drug usage.

No I would agree with that, although I really question if any GT victory
from the last decades has been without some help of doping. It doesn't
seem like a fifty-fifty yes-or-no question.

quality post.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Sweet how it says

C of BB to C of seat tube: N/A
C of BB to T of seat tube: N/A
C of BB to T of seat: N/A
Top tube length (C-C): N/A
Tip of saddle nose to C of bars: N/A
C of front wheel to top of bars: N/A

I think those are the bikes where everyone on the team has to ride the
same size frame. So it fits everyone!

I dunno. Doesn't that model have an integral seat tube/post that has to
be cut to measure? That could create problems if you need to raise the
saddle...So almost everyone.

in message <[email hidden]>, Allez1

(') said:

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Allez1" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 24 May 2006 08:37:31 +0100, Simon Brooke
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>
>>> You know, I was just thinking to myself a couple of days ago,
>>> "With Basso riding so much better than everyone else in the Giro,
>>> I wonder how long it'll be before someone accuses him of
>>> doping..."
>>
>>So was I. Damn. I do very much hope not.
>
> He's a top pro.

And your point is?

I don't believe all top riders dope. Perhaps Cunego's clean:
apparently he has rare natural blood values that might make a certain
amount of blood doping unnecessary. McGee has always been very vocal
against doping and he's one of those riders who seem to be full of
talent but never quite deliver.

Hamilton was also vocal about not doping, particularly after getting
caught out.

And Millar. Being vocal against proves nothing, it seems.

I want to believe our sport is cleaning up it's act. I want to believe
that CSC, and Basso, are clean. I think he almost certainly is, but it's
hard not to have a corrosive suspicion.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whatever the case, Basso has certainly increased his capabilities
dramatically and he deserves a huge amount of respect for that. His TT
training is likely the best of the field and I think Riis is is the
best DS.

At the risk of mis-stating your position, it seems that the cycling
culture has created a situation where it is impossible to really know
what is real and what is drug assisted leaving every dominant
performance in doubt as to drug usage.

Unfortunately that pretty much is the case.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other
;; languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their
;; pockets for new vocabulary -- James D. Nicoll

Simon Brooke said:

I want to believe our sport is cleaning up it's act. I want to believe
that CSC, and Basso, are clean.

You should watch the X-Files. Sometimes the aliens even deliver blue
cooler boxes to hotels.

"Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

I want to believe our sport is cleaning up it's act. I want to believe
that CSC, and Basso, are clean.

You should watch the X-Files. Sometimes the aliens even deliver blue
cooler boxes to hotels.

From AFP:

El Pais newspaper reported that more than 200 blood bags destined for
transfusions were also seized in the raids.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060524/sp_wl_afp/cyclingespsaizdoping_060524133540;_ylt=ArnKfyLBBcNnUC.k54OcUzPFOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Allez1

Quoted message said:

I want to believe our sport is cleaning up it's act. I want to believe
that CSC, and Basso, are clean. I think he almost certainly is, but it's
hard not to have a corrosive suspicion.

How can anyone suspect Basso and the CSC team? After all, it's trained by
dr. Luigi Cecchini, the doctor/trainer of Casagrande, Riis and Hamilton...

Benjo

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

How can anyone suspect Basso and the CSC team? After all, it's trained
by dr. Luigi Cecchini, the doctor/trainer of Casagrande, Riis and
Hamilton...

Benjo

But it was, oh, months and months ago that he had anything to do with
Basso!

Doesn't he also work with Cunego?

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

How can anyone suspect Basso and the CSC team? After all, it's trained
by dr. Luigi Cecchini, the doctor/trainer of Casagrande, Riis and
Hamilton...

Benjo

But it was, oh, months and months ago that he had anything to do with
Basso!

Doesn't he also work with Cunego?

The wall of silence goes up quickly in the Dolomites.

Fuentes is reported to be close to Italian training consultant Luigi
Cecchini, who has worked with Basso. Basso said of Cecchini: "He is my
compatriot and he's a great guy. But I can't say any more about him."
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=2132

Stu Fleming <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The cops are just trying to cook up an excuse to
"interview" Basso's sister as a witness.

Who else are they going to finger as a suspect?

nicely done! Makes me want to apply for a police job.

NS

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

..., although I really question if any GT victory
from the last decades has been without some help of doping.

Good question.

I would like to know...

l.a.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nev Shea said:

Stu Fleming <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The cops are just trying to cook up an excuse to
"interview" Basso's sister as a witness.

Who else are they going to finger as a suspect?

nicely done! Makes me want to apply for a police job.

NS

In the meantime you'll have to get by with a bit of "roughing up the suspect."

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?