Safety Cam Initiative

Bob, Your plan is great but it will be nearly impossible to
do here in FL. I'm over in the Tampa Bay area. I am not an
attorney (if I were I wouldn't admit
it) but I've had to deal with this [censored] personally and with
friends. If you can prove that a driver of a vehicle
intentionally killed someone with that vehicle it would
not be any crime by the use of a deadly weapon, rather
vehicular homicide. What you're describing is vehicular
assault, and is very hard to prove. Why? Because the law
is screwed up. The laws that govern motor vehicles are
totally different than the ones that govern other
violent crimes. First, a picture or video of a vehicle,
even with the tag, won't cut
iu. The registered owner may not be driving it at the time
and if you can't prove who was actually driving it your
case is dead. The registered owner can be held
financially responsible but that's a whole different
civil matter. That's the easy part. The real fun starts
when you try to prove intent. The driver can say they
were distracted or lost control and the most they might
be charged is wreckless driving. That's not even a
felony. A fine and they might lose their license,
temporarily. It's totally screwed up! I'm not defending
these drivers. I agree with you where if you kill
someone with a vehicle it should be the same as if you
used a gun, knife, lead pipe, or any other weapon. But
it's not. The "old-school" mentallity of when people
were killed in automobile related accidents it was
considered an "act of God" or "they were just in the
wrong place at the wrong time" [censored] still haunts us
today. Driving, by most drivers, is taken for granted. A
lot of them believe it's their right. One thing that
should be done is to make registered owners of a vehicle
responsible for it at all times, with the exception of
theft. Here's a big problem. In Florida, insurance
companies insure drivers, not cars. Example - a girl
lets her boyfriend, who has no license or insurance due
to a DUI, drive her car and he hits you, reguardless of
intent. The girl's insurance refuses to pay because she
wasn't driving the car. The case ends up in court,
possibly for years. Now all you, the victim, has to deal
with is recovering from your injuries, lost wages,
medical bills, legal costs, and the psycological impact.
The driver, boyfriend in this case, gets fined for
driving on a suspended license. I'll put money on he
does no jail time. I have a close friend who's dealing
with almost this exact scenario.

Anyway, I wish you the best in your camera quest. Don't let
my obsessive ranting discourage you. If you can pull it off
I'll support you all the way. Peace -

Robert Haston <[email hidden]> wrote in message new-
s:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop
camera to catch drivers harassing them. After just having
a car full of teenagers swerve

at

Quoted message said:

me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver
couldn't merge

down

Quoted message said:

the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the
driver charged if I had video. Better yet, when I catch up
with these people, they often open their mouth and
basically admit what they just did, by at least saying
something like: "you should be on the sidewalk"
(establishing motive).

Good video would obviously meant the difference between
this jerk laughing it up with his friends and having his
license revoked and facing assault with a deadly weapon.

So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of
their memory cards already). I figure aside from making
some money, imagine the effect of

just

Quoted message said:

a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them
rolling the tape

on

Quoted message said:

TV.

I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could
contact the camera makers for such cameras. I'm emailing
them, too. If you think you would like such a product (it
would also work as a conventional digital camera) let them
know too.

MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus 400,
and have two Xd memory chips I would like to put to
further use. Aside from a new market for your products, a
"safety cam" that recorded a constant video and sound loop
until you stopped it would be great public relations work.

"Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal
maneuvers and

endanger

Quoted message said:

other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or
handlebar mounted

camera

Quoted message said:

that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when we
selected, this would be a powerful tool for road safety.
With well publicized use of these, aggressive drivers
would have to consider that their behavior might be
recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would be a
powerful disincentive. Cyclists in particular would love
this. "Road Ragers" harass cyclists

by

Quoted message said:

swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or
parked cars, throwing things at them, yelling or honking
loudly just as they pass, etc. Some have deliberately
rammed cyclists. These drivers (who are probably the same
self-righteous lot that make driving so aggravating)
think it is fun, but the cyclist who sees a rear view
mirror full of grill doesn't know whether the guy will
hit them, accidentally or not. By the definition of the
law, this is assault with a deadly weapon (though not
with intent to kill).

We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with a
handlebar mount and a video loop mode. It would stop
recording when we stop it, or an accident tips the
bike and knocks it loose. The mount should also
pivot,

so

Quoted message said:

as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such
as the driver or passenger looking back to see the effects
of their behavior (an obvious giveaway compared to the
careless driver who just misjudged the cyclist's speed.
For example, last week a teenager swerved at me while his
three passengers gawked. He was so busy swerving to the
right of the road; he wound up not merging down the road.
This would have easily been recorded. Right now, instead
of laughing it up with his friends, he would be facing
certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing the
Prosecutor had video of his driving. Believe it or not, it
is typically easy to get these people to admit it when you
catch up with them. For example (if I even get a word in
before they start) I ask: "What was that all about"
Instead of an apology or ignorance, they say: "You
shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on

the

Quoted message said:

sidewalk". Now imagine how such people would behave once
news stories of them endangering motorists, cyclists, or
even pedestrians (complete with

footage)

Quoted message said:

got out? You would be doing a great service if you
modified one of your small, inexpensive digital cameras
for this. I would also like to have a

cheaper,

Quoted message said:

1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would
also be good just

to

Quoted message said:

have running if you saw something interesting.

Thank you

--
Robert Haston Satellite Beach, FL

El Calaverada said:

In Florida, insurance companies insure drivers, not cars.
Example - a girl lets her boyfriend, who has no license or
insurance due to a DUI, drive her car and he hits you,
reguardless of intent. The girl's insurance refuses to pay
because she wasn't driving the car.

Are you sure she was able to buy a one-driver policy and
not one that covered any non-commercial use by a
licensed driver?

A friend who teaches high school once loaned his car to a
reporter for the school newspaper. That kid turned around
and loaned it to another kid who didn't have a license and
crashed it. It was a big mess that the insurance company
wanted no part of, as they weren't in the habit of insuring
the acts of unlicensed drivers. Mitch.

Every counter argument you said wouldn't have been the
case in my last two events. I could have got his face,
and certainly his girlfriend's as she turned right around
to see me.

On two other occasions, I confronted the perps and asked
them what was that about? Instead of saying they didn't see
me or something, they said I should get off the road. That
would be hard evidence to get past.

While I certainly don't expect to get a fair shake, having a
guy threatened with vehicular assault, and certainly getting
a big fine (the one before the last, a guy yelled and
swerved at me in a 25 MPH school zone, no less) is threat
enough to get them to straighten up.

I just figure the big camera manufacturers might do it
solely for PR purposes, since it is so easy anyway.

How hard is it to email your camera's manufacturer?

"El Calaverada" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob, Your plan is great but it will be nearly impossible
to do here in FL. I'm over in the Tampa Bay area. I am not
an attorney (if I were I wouldn't

admit

Quoted message said:

it) but I've had to deal with this [censored] personally and
with friends. If

you

Quoted message said:

can prove that a driver of a vehicle intentionally killed
someone with

that

Quoted message said:

vehicle it would not be any crime by the use of a deadly
weapon, rather vehicular homicide. What you're describing
is vehicular assault, and is

very

Quoted message said:

hard to prove. Why? Because the law is screwed up. The
laws that govern motor vehicles are totally different than
the ones that govern other

violent

Quoted message said:

crimes. First, a picture or video of a vehicle, even with
the tag, won't

cut

Quoted message said:

it. The registered owner may not be driving it at the time
and if you

can't

Quoted message said:

prove who was actually driving it your case is dead.
The registered owner can be held financially
responsible but that's a whole different civil matter.
That's the easy part. The real fun starts when you try
to prove intent. The driver can say they were
distracted or lost control and the

most

Quoted message said:

they might be charged is wreckless driving. That's not
even a felony. A

fine

Quoted message said:

and they might lose their license, temporarily. It's
totally screwed up!

I'm

Quoted message said:

not defending these drivers. I agree with you where if you
kill someone

with

Quoted message said:

a vehicle it should be the same as if you used a gun,
knife, lead pipe, or any other weapon. But it's not. The
"old-school" mentallity of when people were killed in
automobile related accidents it was considered an "act of
God" or "they were just in the wrong place at the wrong
time" [censored]

still

Quoted message said:

haunts us today. Driving, by most drivers, is taken for
granted. A lot of them believe it's their right. One thing
that should be done is to make registered owners of a
vehicle responsible for it at all times, with the
exception of theft. Here's a big problem. In Florida,
insurance companies insure drivers, not cars. Example - a
girl lets her boyfriend, who has no license or insurance
due to a DUI, drive her car and he hits you, reguardless
of intent. The girl's insurance refuses to pay because she
wasn't driving the car. The case ends up in court,
possibly for years. Now all you, the victim, has to deal
with is recovering from your injuries,

lost

Quoted message said:

wages, medical bills, legal costs, and the psycological
impact. The

driver,

Quoted message said:

boyfriend in this case, gets fined for driving on a
suspended license.

I'll

Quoted message said:

put money on he does no jail time. I have a close friend
who's dealing

with

Quoted message said:

almost this exact scenario.

Anyway, I wish you the best in your camera quest. Don't
let my obsessive ranting discourage you. If you can pull
it off I'll support you all the

way.

Quoted message said:

Peace -

Robert Haston <[email hidden]> wrote in message
-"]news:[email hidden]-
k.net...

Quoted message said:

I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop
camera to catch drivers harassing them. After just
having a car full of teenagers

swerve

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver
couldn't merge

down

Quoted message said:

the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the
driver charged if

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had video. Better yet, when I catch up with these
people, they often

open

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

their mouth and basically admit what they just did, by
at least saying something like: "you should be on the
sidewalk" (establishing motive).

Good video would obviously meant the difference between
this jerk

laughing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it up with his friends and having his license revoked
and facing assault with a deadly weapon.

So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of
their memory cards already). I figure aside from making
some money, imagine the effect of

just

Quoted message said:

a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them
rolling the tape

on

Quoted message said:

TV.

I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could
contact the camera makers for such cameras. I'm emailing
them, too. If you think you

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like such a product (it would also work as a
conventional digital

camera)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

let them know too.

MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus
400, and have two

Xd

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

memory chips I would like to put to further use. Aside
from a new

market

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for your products, a "safety cam" that recorded a
constant video and

sound

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

loop until you stopped it would be great public
relations work.

"Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal
maneuvers and

endanger

Quoted message said:

other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or
handlebar mounted

camera

Quoted message said:

that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when
we selected, this would be a powerful tool for road
safety. With well publicized use of these, aggressive
drivers would have to consider that their behavior

might

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would
be a powerful disincentive. Cyclists in particular would
love this. "Road Ragers" harass

cyclists

Quoted message said:

by

Quoted message said:

swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or
parked cars,
throwing things at them, yelling or honking loudly just
as they pass,

etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some have deliberately rammed cyclists. These drivers
(who are probably the same self-righteous lot that make
driving so aggravating) think it is fun, but the cyclist
who sees a rear view mirror full of grill doesn't know
whether the guy will hit them, accidentally or not. By
the definition of the law, this is assault with

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

deadly weapon (though not with intent to kill).

We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with
a handlebar

mount

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and a video loop mode. It would stop recording when we
stop it, or an accident tips the bike and knocks it
loose. The mount should also

pivot,

Quoted message said:

so

Quoted message said:

as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such
as the driver

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

passenger looking back to see the effects of their
behavior (an obvious giveaway compared to the careless
driver who just misjudged the

cyclist's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

speed. For example, last week a teenager swerved at me
while his three passengers gawked. He was so busy
swerving to the right of the road; he wound up not
merging down the road. This would have easily been

recorded.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right now, instead of laughing it up with his friends,
he would be

facing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing
the Prosecutor

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

video of his driving. Believe it or not, it is typically
easy to get these people to admit

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when you catch up with them. For example (if I even get
a word in before they start) I ask: "What was that all
about" Instead of an apology or ignorance, they say:
"You shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on

the

Quoted message said:

sidewalk". Now imagine how such people would behave once
news stories of them endangering motorists, cyclists, or
even pedestrians (complete with

footage)

Quoted message said:

got out? You would be doing a great service if you
modified one of your small, inexpensive digital cameras
for this. I would also like to have a

cheaper,

Quoted message said:

1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would
also be good

just

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

have running if you saw something interesting.

Thank you

--
Robert Haston Satellite Beach, FL