Safety Cam Initiative

Bob,
Your plan is great but it will be nearly impossible to do here in FL. I'm
over in the Tampa Bay area. I am not an attorney (if I were I wouldn't admit
it) but I've had to deal with this [censored] personally and with friends. If you
can prove that a driver of a vehicle intentionally killed someone with that
vehicle it would not be any crime by the use of a deadly weapon, rather
vehicular homicide. What you're describing is vehicular assault, and is very
hard to prove. Why? Because the law is screwed up. The laws that govern
motor vehicles are totally different than the ones that govern other violent
crimes. First, a picture or video of a vehicle, even with the tag, won't cut
it. The registered owner may not be driving it at the time and if you can't
prove who was actually driving it your case is dead. The registered owner
can be held financially responsible but that's a whole different civil
matter. That's the easy part. The real fun starts when you try to prove
intent. The driver can say they were distracted or lost control and the most
they might be charged is wreckless driving. That's not even a felony. A fine
and they might lose their license, temporarily. It's totally screwed up! I'm
not defending these drivers. I agree with you where if you kill someone with
a vehicle it should be the same as if you used a gun, knife, lead pipe, or
any other weapon. But it's not. The "old-school" mentallity of when people
were killed in automobile related accidents it was considered an "act of
God" or "they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time" [censored] still
haunts us today. Driving, by most drivers, is taken for granted. A lot of
them believe it's their right. One thing that should be done is to make
registered owners of a vehicle responsible for it at all times, with the
exception of theft. Here's a big problem. In Florida, insurance companies
insure drivers, not cars. Example - a girl lets her boyfriend, who has no
license or insurance due to a DUI, drive her car and he hits you,
reguardless of intent. The girl's insurance refuses to pay because she
wasn't driving the car. The case ends up in court, possibly for years. Now
all you, the victim, has to deal with is recovering from your injuries, lost
wages, medical bills, legal costs, and the psycological impact. The driver,
boyfriend in this case, gets fined for driving on a suspended license. I'll
put money on he does no jail time. I have a close friend who's dealing with
almost this exact scenario.

Anyway, I wish you the best in your camera quest. Don't let my obsessive
ranting discourage you. If you can pull it off I'll support you all the way.
Peace -

Robert Haston <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop camera to catch
drivers harassing them. After just having a car full of teenagers swerve

at

Quoted message said:

me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver couldn't merge

down

Quoted message said:

the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the driver charged if I
had video. Better yet, when I catch up with these people, they often open
their mouth and basically admit what they just did, by at least saying
something like: "you should be on the sidewalk" (establishing motive).

Good video would obviously meant the difference between this jerk laughing
it up with his friends and having his license revoked and facing assault
with a deadly weapon.

So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of their memory cards
already). I figure aside from making some money, imagine the effect of

just

Quoted message said:

a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them rolling the tape

on

Quoted message said:

TV.

I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could contact the camera
makers for such cameras. I'm emailing them, too. If you think you would
like such a product (it would also work as a conventional digital camera)
let them know too.

MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus 400, and have two Xd
memory chips I would like to put to further use. Aside from a new market
for your products, a "safety cam" that recorded a constant video and sound
loop until you stopped it would be great public relations work.

"Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal maneuvers and

endanger

Quoted message said:

other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or handlebar mounted

camera

Quoted message said:

that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when we selected, this
would be a powerful tool for road safety. With well publicized use of
these, aggressive drivers would have to consider that their behavior might
be recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would be a powerful
disincentive.
Cyclists in particular would love this. "Road Ragers" harass cyclists

by

Quoted message said:

swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or parked cars,
throwing things at them, yelling or honking loudly just as they pass, etc.
Some have deliberately rammed cyclists.
These drivers (who are probably the same self-righteous lot that make
driving so aggravating) think it is fun, but the cyclist who sees a rear
view mirror full of grill doesn't know whether the guy will hit them,
accidentally or not. By the definition of the law, this is assault with a
deadly weapon (though not with intent to kill).

We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with a handlebar mount
and a video loop mode. It would stop recording when we stop it, or an
accident tips the bike and knocks it loose. The mount should also pivot,

so

Quoted message said:

as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such as the driver or
passenger looking back to see the effects of their behavior (an obvious
giveaway compared to the careless driver who just misjudged the cyclist's
speed.
For example, last week a teenager swerved at me while his three
passengers gawked. He was so busy swerving to the right of the road; he
wound up not merging down the road. This would have easily been recorded.
Right now, instead of laughing it up with his friends, he would be facing
certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing the Prosecutor had
video of his driving.
Believe it or not, it is typically easy to get these people to admit it
when you catch up with them. For example (if I even get a word in before
they start) I ask: "What was that all about" Instead of an apology or
ignorance, they say: "You shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on

the

Quoted message said:

sidewalk".
Now imagine how such people would behave once news stories of them
endangering motorists, cyclists, or even pedestrians (complete with

footage)

Quoted message said:

got out?
You would be doing a great service if you modified one of your small,
inexpensive digital cameras for this. I would also like to have a

cheaper,

Quoted message said:

1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would also be good just

to

Quoted message said:

have running if you saw something interesting.

Thank you

--
Robert Haston
Satellite Beach, FL

El Calaverada said:

In Florida, insurance companies insure drivers, not cars.
Example - a girl lets her boyfriend, who has no license or
insurance due to a DUI, drive her car and he hits you,
reguardless of intent. The girl's insurance refuses to pay
because she wasn't driving the car.

Are you sure she was able to buy a one-driver policy and not
one that covered any non-commercial use by a licensed driver?

A friend who teaches high school once loaned his car to a
reporter for the school newspaper. That kid turned around
and loaned it to another kid who didn't have a license and
crashed it. It was a big mess that the insurance company
wanted no part of, as they weren't in the habit of insuring
the acts of unlicensed drivers.
Mitch.

Every counter argument you said wouldn't have been the case in my last two
events. I could have got his face, and certainly his girlfriend's as she
turned right around to see me.

On two other occasions, I confronted the perps and asked them what was that
about? Instead of saying they didn't see me or something, they said I
should get off the road. That would be hard evidence to get past.

While I certainly don't expect to get a fair shake, having a guy threatened
with vehicular assault, and certainly getting a big fine (the one before the
last, a guy yelled and swerved at me in a 25 MPH school zone, no less) is
threat enough to get them to straighten up.

I just figure the big camera manufacturers might do it solely for PR
purposes, since it is so easy anyway.

How hard is it to email your camera's manufacturer?

"El Calaverada" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob,
Your plan is great but it will be nearly impossible to do here in FL. I'm
over in the Tampa Bay area. I am not an attorney (if I were I wouldn't

admit

Quoted message said:

it) but I've had to deal with this [censored] personally and with friends. If

you

Quoted message said:

can prove that a driver of a vehicle intentionally killed someone with

that

Quoted message said:

vehicle it would not be any crime by the use of a deadly weapon, rather
vehicular homicide. What you're describing is vehicular assault, and is

very

Quoted message said:

hard to prove. Why? Because the law is screwed up. The laws that govern
motor vehicles are totally different than the ones that govern other

violent

Quoted message said:

crimes. First, a picture or video of a vehicle, even with the tag, won't

cut

Quoted message said:

it. The registered owner may not be driving it at the time and if you

can't

Quoted message said:

prove who was actually driving it your case is dead. The registered owner
can be held financially responsible but that's a whole different civil
matter. That's the easy part. The real fun starts when you try to prove
intent. The driver can say they were distracted or lost control and the

most

Quoted message said:

they might be charged is wreckless driving. That's not even a felony. A

fine

Quoted message said:

and they might lose their license, temporarily. It's totally screwed up!

I'm

Quoted message said:

not defending these drivers. I agree with you where if you kill someone

with

Quoted message said:

a vehicle it should be the same as if you used a gun, knife, lead pipe, or
any other weapon. But it's not. The "old-school" mentallity of when people
were killed in automobile related accidents it was considered an "act of
God" or "they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time" [censored]

still

Quoted message said:

haunts us today. Driving, by most drivers, is taken for granted. A lot of
them believe it's their right. One thing that should be done is to make
registered owners of a vehicle responsible for it at all times, with the
exception of theft. Here's a big problem. In Florida, insurance companies
insure drivers, not cars. Example - a girl lets her boyfriend, who has no
license or insurance due to a DUI, drive her car and he hits you,
reguardless of intent. The girl's insurance refuses to pay because she
wasn't driving the car. The case ends up in court, possibly for years. Now
all you, the victim, has to deal with is recovering from your injuries,

lost

Quoted message said:

wages, medical bills, legal costs, and the psycological impact. The

driver,

Quoted message said:

boyfriend in this case, gets fined for driving on a suspended license.

I'll

Quoted message said:

put money on he does no jail time. I have a close friend who's dealing

with

Quoted message said:

almost this exact scenario.

Anyway, I wish you the best in your camera quest. Don't let my obsessive
ranting discourage you. If you can pull it off I'll support you all the

way.

Quoted message said:

Peace -

Robert Haston <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have often heard cyclists say they want a video loop camera to catch
drivers harassing them. After just having a car full of teenagers

swerve

Quoted message said:

at

Quoted message said:

me (while the passengers gawked) so obviously the driver couldn't merge

down

Quoted message said:

the road, I thought how easily I could have gotten the driver charged if

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had video. Better yet, when I catch up with these people, they often

open

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

their mouth and basically admit what they just did, by at least saying
something like: "you should be on the sidewalk" (establishing motive).

Good video would obviously meant the difference between this jerk

laughing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it up with his friends and having his license revoked and facing assault
with a deadly weapon.

So I mailed the following to Olympus (I've got two of their memory cards
already). I figure aside from making some money, imagine the effect of

just

Quoted message said:

a few stories of road ragers getting convicted and them rolling the tape

on

Quoted message said:

TV.

I'm not currently in the LAB, but I figure they could contact the camera
makers for such cameras. I'm emailing them, too. If you think you

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

like such a product (it would also work as a conventional digital

camera)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

let them know too.

MOTORISTS AND CYCLISTS WANT DIGITAL SAFETY CAMS

I am requesting your help here because I own a Stylus 400, and have two

Xd

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

memory chips I would like to put to further use. Aside from a new

market

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for your products, a "safety cam" that recorded a constant video and

sound

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

loop until you stopped it would be great public relations work.

"Road Raging" motorists regularly perform illegal maneuvers and

endanger

Quoted message said:

other motorists and cyclists. If we had a dash or handlebar mounted

camera

Quoted message said:

that recorded a video loop, and stopped recording when we selected, this
would be a powerful tool for road safety. With well publicized use of
these, aggressive drivers would have to consider that their behavior

might

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be recorded. Given the severe fines for this, this would be a powerful
disincentive.
Cyclists in particular would love this. "Road Ragers" harass

cyclists

Quoted message said:

by

Quoted message said:

swerving at them, squeezing them against the shoulder or parked cars,
throwing things at them, yelling or honking loudly just as they pass,

etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some have deliberately rammed cyclists.
These drivers (who are probably the same self-righteous lot that make
driving so aggravating) think it is fun, but the cyclist who sees a rear
view mirror full of grill doesn't know whether the guy will hit them,
accidentally or not. By the definition of the law, this is assault with

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

deadly weapon (though not with intent to kill).

We cyclists have long wanted a digital camera with a handlebar

mount

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and a video loop mode. It would stop recording when we stop it, or an
accident tips the bike and knocks it loose. The mount should also

pivot,

Quoted message said:

so

Quoted message said:

as the driver passes, the cyclist can record things such as the driver

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

passenger looking back to see the effects of their behavior (an obvious
giveaway compared to the careless driver who just misjudged the

cyclist's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

speed.
For example, last week a teenager swerved at me while his three
passengers gawked. He was so busy swerving to the right of the road; he
wound up not merging down the road. This would have easily been

recorded.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Right now, instead of laughing it up with his friends, he would be

facing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

certain license suspension, and criminal court knowing the Prosecutor

had

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

video of his driving.
Believe it or not, it is typically easy to get these people to admit

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

when you catch up with them. For example (if I even get a word in before
they start) I ask: "What was that all about" Instead of an apology or
ignorance, they say: "You shouldn't be on the road" or "You should be on

the

Quoted message said:

sidewalk".
Now imagine how such people would behave once news stories of them
endangering motorists, cyclists, or even pedestrians (complete with

footage)

Quoted message said:

got out?
You would be doing a great service if you modified one of your small,
inexpensive digital cameras for this. I would also like to have a

cheaper,

Quoted message said:

1 Meg camera for web photos and such, anyway. It would also be good

just

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

have running if you saw something interesting.

Thank you

--
Robert Haston
Satellite Beach, FL