Road Tires

Correction:

The Wheels arrived today and the front one is slightly out of true😠 but I will take it to the shop and get it fixed😄 .

THe TIres only go to about 9 BAR (130-140 PSI)

Cyclist14 said:

Correction:

The Wheels arrived today and the front one is slightly out of true😠 but I will take it to the shop and get it fixed😄 .

THe TIres only go to about 9 BAR (130-140 PSI)

Be aware that the rims have a max psi that they can handle too. Check with the manufacturer before you go over 120 or so. The pressure clinchers put on a rim is outwards, and therefore the max pressure can have an effect on the rim--a bad effect if you find out too late. Hope you enjoy the new wheels!!

Just a thought guys, you aren't really all comparing like for like in some instances.

The veloflex that is mentioned is a super premium clincher and, for example, the Vittoria Rubino is pretty much bottom end.

For me, the optimium balance comes with tyres that retail at about £40 - £45 per pair including tubes.

At www.bicyclerubber.com we do Michelin Pro Race2, Conti GP3000 and Vittoria Open KX / KS / CX all at about that price point and I think you are choosing between them just on personal preference - they are pretty much matched for performance.

Cheers

domaindomain said:

Just a thought guys, you aren't really all comparing like for like in some instances.

The veloflex that is mentioned is a super premium clincher and, for example, the Vittoria Rubino is pretty much bottom end.

For me, the optimium balance comes with tyres that retail at about £40 - £45 per pair including tubes.

At www.bicyclerubber.com we do Michelin Pro Race2, Conti GP3000 and Vittoria Open KX / KS / CX all at about that price point and I think you are choosing between them just on personal preference - they are pretty much matched for performance.

Cheers

Exactly correct. Many times it comes down to very small differences, aesthetics, brand reputation. But tires should be compared to others in the same price range, not one that's twice the difference in MSRP.

[quote="Wurm"]I don't buy the "heavier goes downhill quicker" theory. As you may know, several hundred years ago Galileo did a similar experiment at the Leaning Tower of Pisa, only to find that a heavier object fell at the same speed as a lighter object, both being made of the same material and basic shape.
QUOTE]

Thats not right. In a vacuum you would have that happen but as there is the parasitic drag from the air things dont fall to the ground the same speed.

What slows you on the hill? Aero drag and bearing drag plus the rolling resistance from the tyres. What moves you is the component of gravity that acts in the forward direction (if you dont pedal). True the load from the bearings and tyres increases in proportion to this force but the aero drag is independent. At low speeds (cycling speeds) it will work out that this is an advantage to you, a heavy person.

Unless they lied to me during my degree I am pretty sure I am correct here.

[quote="MichaelB"]

Wurm said:

I don't buy the "heavier goes downhill quicker" theory. As you may know, several hundred years ago Galileo did a similar experiment at the Leaning Tower of Pisa, only to find that a heavier object fell at the same speed as a lighter object, both being made of the same material and basic shape.
QUOTE]

Thats not right. In a vacuum you would have that happen but as there is the parasitic drag from the air things dont fall to the ground the same speed.

What slows you on the hill? Aero drag and bearing drag plus the rolling resistance from the tyres. What moves you is the component of gravity that acts in the forward direction (if you dont pedal). True the load from the bearings and tyres increases in proportion to this force but the aero drag is independent. At low speeds (cycling speeds) it will work out that this is an advantage to you, a heavy person.

Unless they lied to me during my degree I am pretty sure I am correct here.

MichaelB said:

Thats not right. In a vacuum you would have that happen but as there is the parasitic drag from the air things dont fall to the ground the same speed.

I'm well aware of that, but my Galileo example was a general statement. Notice "same basic shape" which would tend to give similar aero drags components.

I disagree with martin, if not empirically at least anecdotally. As I've said, one of my regular riding partners that is heavier than me by at least 30 lbs. does not make it down the descents as fast as I do.

There goes the "heavier is faster" argument for me.

GPT said:

Armadillos last a while but what are your favorite tires for speed? 700x23 or there abouts. I've tried Rubino & Bontrager and think the Bontragers are more comfortable but not a zippy. Thoughts?

I have tried quite a few brands and my favorite tires are Hutchinson Fusion Comps. The roll very well and I love how the corner.

Wurm said:

I'm well aware of that, but my Galileo example was a general statement. Notice "same basic shape" which would tend to give similar aero drags components.

I disagree with martin, if not empirically at least anecdotally. As I've said, one of my regular riding partners that is heavier than me by at least 30 lbs. does not make it down the descents as fast as I do.

There goes the "heavier is faster" argument for me.

Ok someone had to try and act smart let it be me

add rolling force down a hill in newtons, this is equal to the sin of the angle of that hill times your weight(in kg) times 9.81(gravity)

add whatever force you are peddling

minus wind resistance ( obviously more for a big heavy FAT dude)

minus rolling resistance ( tyres, hubs etc...)

if these add to zero you are at a steady pace
if a positive no. you are accelerating
if a negative no. your slowing down.

in that first equation its not hard to see the heavier you are the more force acting down the hill. :eek:

a dash of abandon too perhaps?

for me, i have been on some waay cheep maxxis detonators, they are great tires.
comfy, lasting well, sticky and fast.
this took me by surprise, as i have been on gommitalias, vitt setas,
mich pro light, hutchinson cottons, panaracer, conti gp, clement, tufo, any 'n all you name it. but not dugast...

or veloflex. that looks to be next.

Wurm said:

beaten me yet on the descents?

Maybe it's simply a fortunate combination of things with my tires, weight, aerodynamics, bearing friction, etc.

😕

Hypnospin said:

a dash of abandon too perhaps?

for me, i have been on some waay cheep maxxis detonators, they are great tires.
comfy, lasting well, sticky and fast.
this took me by surprise, as i have been on gommitalias, vitt setas,
mich pro light, hutchinson cottons, panaracer, conti gp, clement, tufo, any 'n all you name it. but not dugast...

or veloflex. that looks to be next.

Yes, you can throw abandon in there, aka "insanity". 😉

That's one of the fun/interesting parts of cycling for me - trying out different tires, parts, etc. I've done most of the models you've mentioned, except the Maxxis' and Tufo's. BTW - have you tried Vred's yet?

Hypnospin said:

a dash of abandon too perhaps?

for me, i have been on some waay cheep maxxis detonators, they are great tires.
comfy, lasting well, sticky and fast.
this took me by surprise, as i have been on gommitalias, vitt setas,
mich pro light, hutchinson cottons, panaracer, conti gp, clement, tufo, any 'n all you name it. but not dugast...

or veloflex. that looks to be next.

Veloflex pave, Veloflex was formed by vittoria employees after vittoria moved production to Taiwan. IMO veloflex makes the finest handmade race worthy tires your money can buy at $37.
http://www.veloflextires.com/

As for road tyres on an mtb, then the Conti Grand Prix MTB version is hard to beat

Just 190g and beautiful to ride...

On ebay here for those that might want to get themselves a pair!

cheers

Wurm said:

I don't buy the "heavier goes downhill quicker" theory. As you may know, several hundred years ago Galileo did a similar experiment at the Leaning Tower of Pisa, only to find that a heavier object fell at the same speed as a lighter object, both being made of the same material and basic shape.

But since you ask, I weigh about 196 lbs. and am 6' tall, so I do present somewhat of a larger "air brake" to the wind than many of the smaller members. I regularly ride with one guy that weighs maybe 8-10 lbs. less than me, and another that weighs about 25-30 lbs. more. Others in the group I would say are less than 180.

The wheelsets are all pretty close, with some being more aero I'm sure, and some less. I use Campy Zondas with 30mm. rims, which is no taller a rim than some others have, or of no fewer spokes. But really the aerodynamics don't come into play much at speeds under about 15 mph, where I still roll faster/easier than all of my mates. Then on the fast DH's, the rolling resistance seems to make an even greater difference.

All unscientific and anecdotal of course, but this has been my observation.

Heavier beats lighter downhill while coasting.

While riding with my wife I have a hard time NOT hitting the brakes while coasting downhill on IDENTICAL wheelsize. I almost weight twice as much as her.

huhenio said:

Heavier beats lighter downhill while coasting.

As I stated anecdotally above: not always.

Regardless of the weight issue, the Vredestein's with latex tubes are really fast IMHO.

If I rode blindfolded I could not tell any loss of speed or ride quality compared to a Vittoria Corsa CX tubular. They really impress me.

Giant's OCR range has been sold with a certain type of Michelin as standard fitment. Can't recall which Michelin...because as soon as the tyre wore down near the canvas I threw it in the bin in disgust.

There is no tread surface at all, the tyre is simply sidewall all the way around. Punctures far too easily. And unlike a good racing Hutchy, which IS fast, the Mich feels heavy and sluggish, with very poor feel in cornering; it is the most horrible tyre I have ever had. Almost as bad as the Kevlar Continentals I used to buy just for their low price and Kevlar belts.
I now have a Specialized Armadillo (I think!) as well as one of the Vittorias. Both feel beautiful and fast, and handling response is razor-sharp compared to the French rubbish (Mich).

I really enjoy the Michelin Pros. I've ridden several and these are by far my favorite. On the downhill speed issue.....all I know is that I don't descend as fast as I used to when I was 35lbs heavier.

Wurm said:

As I stated anecdotally above: not always.

nothing is "always". but the point is, heavier guys go down hills faster. and light guys go up hills faster. this isn't even contentious...

seed

Hypnospin said:

for me, i have been on some waay cheep maxxis detonators, they are great tires.

I'll take you at your word about those, Hypno. But really - "Detonator"?? 😕 A poor choice of name for a cycling tire!