Road pedals

Jobst Brandt said:

Jim Higson said:

...
Another cool thing I discovered (I was the guy who started the
thread about using SPD on the road) - Shimano sell clip-in platforms
that go on top of their clipless pedals. I wouldn't do a long ride
on them, but I like these for short trips where I'm going to be
spending most of the time off the bike. The "walkable" SPD shoes
are good, but for more than a few miles walking I'd rather have
normal shoes.

That's the hard way of mixed use if you do that often. Try:

http://tinyurl.com/uaeyh

Or
<http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/component.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441763012&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302033078&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181202&CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673243998&bmUID=1164482875094>
for full URL people.

The Shimano PD-M324 pedals Jobst links to tend to hang slightly beyond
vertical with the SPuD side facing rearwards as seen in this picture
[1], which make use of the platform easier on uprights and use of the
SPuD side easier on recumbents.

[1] <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df7.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Post Free or Die!

Johnny Sunset said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> jj1075 wrote:
> I've been "suffering" with SPDs since 1991. IMO, for a recreational
> cyclist, the two-sided pedals and walkable shoes of SPDs makes them the
> obvious choice.
>
> Unless you wanna walk like a duck and wear your cleats down. ;-)

Which spud pedals, ATB or road, have adjustable release tension?

*Every* one I have ever seen? Which ones *do not* have adjustable
release tension?

Quoted message said:

Wearing cleats down is a viable criticism.

Gee thanks for agreeing. It means the world to me.

Quoted message said:

Walking like a duck is a "who cares", IMHO <g>.

It goes beyond "walking like a duck" and extends into unsure footing.
Years ago, a friend's GF, an experienced rider, came upon a stop sign
at the top of a fairly steep rise. When she put a foot down, her big
exposed cleat slipped on the pavement, she went down and got a pretty
nasty knee laceration. Walkable shoes with a recessed cleat and a
reasonable sole probably wouldn't have slid on the pavement. Pro racers
don't come upon stop signs, do they?

This is especially important in urban riding in the rain, where oil and
grease from the motor vehicles will be lifted from the voids in the
pavement by the water, making the surface (especially the area between
the two motor vehicle tire tracks) slippery. A sole soft enough to
provide traction by conforming to the irregularities of the pavement is
very helpful in this situation.

Agreed. Alot of folks don't understand the thought behind "horses for
courses". Real racers clip in and ride. They unclip at the end, unless
they have a flat, etc. No stop signs, red lights, dangerous
intersections, pit stops, no need to walk. All the things that a
recreational rider deals with.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been pretty happy with my Ultegra 6610's, a good chunk of that
because the "pontoon" cleats are more secure to walk in.

I've used spuds in Spin class. OK, a little too easy to pop out of for
me personally, at least on those pedals (brand unknown).

The "fred" thing? Somebody might be trying to tell you something...

Huh? Tom Sherman mentioned that not me.

Well, a certain class of roadies is rather disdainful of anyone not
riding the "right" equipment with the "right" style - real life
Fabrizio Mazzoleni's,

Oh, I understand. I was just wondering why MacDusty was directing the
comment at me. I never mentioned the Fred thing.

Ozark Bicycle said:

I've been "suffering" with SPDs since 1991. IMO, for a recreational
cyclist, the two-sided pedals and walkable shoes of SPDs makes them the
obvious choice.

Unless you wanna walk like a duck and wear your cleats down. ;-)

How much walking do you guys do when you're on a ride that you have to
worry about wearing down your cleats? I have two pairs of shoes I use
for riding: one is an old set of Rivat slotted-cleat shoes from the late
70s; the other is a set of Nike shoes with Look cleats from the late
80s. I've never worn out the cleats on either of these.

--

John ([email hidden])

John Thompson said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

I've been "suffering" with SPDs since 1991. IMO, for a recreational
cyclist, the two-sided pedals and walkable shoes of SPDs makes them the
obvious choice.

Unless you wanna walk like a duck and wear your cleats down. ;-)

How much walking do you guys do when you're on a ride that you have to
worry about wearing down your cleats? I have two pairs of shoes I use
for riding: one is an old set of Rivat slotted-cleat shoes from the late
70s; the other is a set of Nike shoes with Look cleats from the late
80s. I've never worn out the cleats on either of these.

For some folks, the bike is transportation. The ride is just the part
of the trip that is spent on wheels, and there's an intermediate
section that might be spent shopping, or walking, or working, or doing
any number of other non-cycling things.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Jim Higson said:

The 520s have more rotational friction than expensive pedals (although still
a small amount as a proportion of the whole system), weigh about 160g more,
and are probably slightly less aero. Neither of these things bother me, and
they seem to be very durable - how else would you say they are worse?

Road pedals have a much wider contact area with the cleat, and hence feel
much more stable to push against, particularly when you're sprinting or
standing. I used to have SPD on my road bike, too, and while they work
ok, the difference is substantial.

I've never accidentally pulled out of my road pedals, either, which did
happen a few times with SPDs, even with the tension at maximum.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

"Johnny Sunset" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt said:

Jim Higson said:

...
Another cool thing I discovered (I was the guy who started the
thread about using SPD on the road) - Shimano sell clip-in
platforms that go on top of their clipless pedals. I wouldn't do a
long ride on them, but I like these for short trips where I'm going
to be spending most of the time off the bike. The "walkable" SPD
shoes are good, but for more than a few miles walking I'd rather
have normal shoes.

That's the hard way of mixed use if you do that often. Try:

http://tinyurl.com/uaeyh

Or
<http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/component.jsp?PRODUCT%3
C%3Eprd_id=845524441763012&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302033078&ASSOR
TMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181202&CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=1013419867324399
8&bmUID=1164482875094> for full URL people.

The Shimano PD-M324 pedals Jobst links to tend to hang slightly beyond
vertical with the SPuD side facing rearwards as seen in this picture
[1], which make use of the platform easier on uprights and use of the
SPuD side easier on recumbents.

[1] <http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df7.jpg>.

The PD-A520s do the same with a more 'aerodynamic' styling, but single
side configuration. And, according to Shimano they're Official Road
Pedals!

Gee, what a coincidence the pedals tend to hang the right way?

Werehatrack said:

John Thompson said:

How much walking do you guys do when you're on a ride that you have to
worry about wearing down your cleats? I have two pairs of shoes I use
for riding: one is an old set of Rivat slotted-cleat shoes from the late
70s; the other is a set of Nike shoes with Look cleats from the late
80s. I've never worn out the cleats on either of these.

Quoted message said:

For some folks, the bike is transportation. The ride is just the part
of the trip that is spent on wheels, and there's an intermediate
section that might be spent shopping, or walking, or working, or doing
any number of other non-cycling things.

Sure. I keep a pair of street shoes in my locker at work, and it's no
trouble to stick a pair of cheap (~US$5) cotton tai-chi shoes in a
jersey pocket or strapped under the seat for recreational riding. If I'm
running errands, I'll just use street shoes with toeclip pedals.

--

John ([email hidden])

Michael Warner said:

Jim Higson said:

The 520s have more rotational friction than expensive pedals (although still
a small amount as a proportion of the whole system), weigh about 160g more,
and are probably slightly less aero. Neither of these things bother me, and
they seem to be very durable - how else would you say they are worse?

Road pedals have a much wider contact area with the cleat, and hence feel
much more stable to push against, particularly when you're sprinting or
standing. I used to have SPD on my road bike, too, and while they work
ok, the difference is substantial.

I always find it amusing when roadies claim that their riding is much
more demanding of pedals than off road riding.

Quoted message said:

I've never accidentally pulled out of my road pedals, either, which did
happen a few times with SPDs, even with the tension at maximum.

I've seen lots of guys pull out of Looks.

John Thompson said:

Werehatrack said:

John Thompson said:

How much walking do you guys do when you're on a ride that you have to
worry about wearing down your cleats? I have two pairs of shoes I use
for riding: one is an old set of Rivat slotted-cleat shoes from the late
70s; the other is a set of Nike shoes with Look cleats from the late
80s. I've never worn out the cleats on either of these.

Quoted message said:

For some folks, the bike is transportation. The ride is just the part
of the trip that is spent on wheels, and there's an intermediate
section that might be spent shopping, or walking, or working, or doing
any number of other non-cycling things.

Sure. I keep a pair of street shoes in my locker at work, and it's no
trouble to stick a pair of cheap (~US$5) cotton tai-chi shoes in a
jersey pocket or strapped under the seat for recreational riding.

Having to change shoes on a recreational ride has always struck me as
just plain silly. What advantages do these non walkable cleat/pedal
systems offer a recreationall rider to make such a hassle worthwhile?

Quoted message said:

If I'm
running errands, I'll just use street shoes with toeclip pedals.

Or SPDs with Winwood InSteps. ;-)

"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Michael Warner said:

Jim Higson said:

The 520s have more rotational friction than expensive pedals (although

still

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a small amount as a proportion of the whole system), weigh about 160g

more,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and are probably slightly less aero. Neither of these things bother me,

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they seem to be very durable - how else would you say they are worse?

Road pedals have a much wider contact area with the cleat, and hence

feel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much more stable to push against, particularly when you're sprinting or
standing. I used to have SPD on my road bike, too, and while they work
ok, the difference is substantial.

I always find it amusing when roadies claim that their riding is much
more demanding of pedals than off road riding.

Quoted message said:

I've never accidentally pulled out of my road pedals, either, which did
happen a few times with SPDs, even with the tension at maximum.

I've seen lots of guys pull out of Looks.

Happened to me with a new pair that I neglected to set the rear jaw
tension... Made a mess when I flew forward, never make that mistake again!

Bruce

Get the special black ones and your bike will look like it has campy
superleggara road pedals on it - at roughly the same weight --

http://cgi.ebay.com/MKS-SYLVAN-Road-Bike-Pedals-Toe-Clips-Straps-BR_W0QQitemZ170050769817QQihZ007QQcategoryZ36138QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

Michael Warner said:

Jim Higson said:

The 520s have more rotational friction than expensive pedals (although
still a small amount as a proportion of the whole system), weigh about
160g more, and are probably slightly less aero. Neither of these things
bother me, and they seem to be very durable - how else would you say they
are worse?

Road pedals have a much wider contact area with the cleat, and hence feel
much more stable to push against, particularly when you're sprinting or
standing. I used to have SPD on my road bike, too, and while they work
ok, the difference is substantial.

Don't mountain bikers stand quite a lot too to get over technical and steep
sections? Looking at the low seats (a bit like a BMX) that seem to be the
MTB fashion these days, I'd say a lot of MTBers should stand more often
than I do.

Quoted message said:

I've never accidentally pulled out of my road pedals, either, which did
happen a few times with SPDs, even with the tension at maximum.

Either they've changed the design since then, or you just pedal a lot harder
than I do. I tend to keep the tension pretty low.

I can barely even clip in at max tension. Then again, I only weigh about
65kg so that might explain it.

--
Jim

Ozark Bicycle said:

John Thompson said:

Sure. I keep a pair of street shoes in my locker at work, and it's no
trouble to stick a pair of cheap (~US$5) cotton tai-chi shoes in a
jersey pocket or strapped under the seat for recreational riding.

Having to change shoes on a recreational ride has always struck me as
just plain silly. What advantages do these non walkable cleat/pedal
systems offer a recreationall rider to make such a hassle worthwhile?

Because that's what you have. My commuter/tourer is out of action so
its the race bike or nothing. So I commute in race shoes and manage.

I'll be taking both sets of pedals to Adelaide (TDU & Vets series) but
I really need to work out the required difference in seat height so I
don't stuff my legs.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jim Higson said:

Michael Warner said:

Jim Higson said:

The 520s have more rotational friction than expensive pedals (although
still a small amount as a proportion of the whole system), weigh about
160g more, and are probably slightly less aero. Neither of these things
bother me, and they seem to be very durable - how else would you say they
are worse?

Road pedals have a much wider contact area with the cleat, and hence feel
much more stable to push against, particularly when you're sprinting or
standing. I used to have SPD on my road bike, too, and while they work
ok, the difference is substantial.

Some people claim that, but I have not found it true in my experience.
My experience is that I spent a couple of years racing quite happily
(Cat 4) in SPDs, followed by a year racing quite happily with a set of
Look pedals. Before the introduction of the Quattro, there were
sponsored pro teams racing on Egg Beaters, which are pretty much the
smallest platform of all. They didn't seem to be cheating on their
sponsorship, either.

My suspicion is that the stiffness of the shoe matters a lot more with a
small cleat than it does with a big one, but if it's stiff enough, it's
stiff enough. Note that there are a lot of fairly flexy-soled
SPD-compatible shoes out there, most aimed at recreational riders
serious enough to want clipless, but casual enough to want near-perfect
walkability. I have walked in very stiff-soled SPDs, and it works, but
you wouldn't want to stroll around all day in them.

Quoted message said:

Don't mountain bikers stand quite a lot too to get over technical and steep
sections? Looking at the low seats (a bit like a BMX) that seem to be the
MTB fashion these days, I'd say a lot of MTBers should stand more often
than I do.

MTBers stand lots, though the mountain bikers using clipless do not
overlap much with the mountain bikers using low seats. It's a
freeride/cross-country thing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've never accidentally pulled out of my road pedals, either, which did
happen a few times with SPDs, even with the tension at maximum.

Either they've changed the design since then, or you just pedal a lot harder
than I do. I tend to keep the tension pretty low.

Some people do, some people don't. It's also the difference between
racing and riding. I kept my tension pretty high when I raced in SPDs,
except for cyclocross and MTB, but even there I used more tension than I
use on my commuter.

Quoted message said:

I can barely even clip in at max tension. Then again, I only weigh about
65kg so that might explain it.

There might be some merit in something like the Egg Beater design for
you: it relies on the mechanical design of the cleat to retain you in
the pedal, releasing only if you move your foot more than the release
angle (selectable at 15 or 20 degrees, depending on which side you put
each cleat).

For non-racers, I would not recommend non-walkable cleats. There's not
much benefit for a lot of annoyance.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ozark Bicycle said:

Having to change shoes on a recreational ride has always struck me as
just plain silly. What advantages do these non walkable cleat/pedal
systems offer a recreationall rider to make such a hassle worthwhile?

I don't have to buy new pedals for all my bikes. :-)

--

John ([email hidden])

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

I've never accidentally pulled out of my road pedals, either, which did
happen a few times with SPDs, even with the tension at maximum.

Quoted message said:

I've seen lots of guys pull out of Looks.

It's true. That's why the track rides use toeclips and double straps.

--

John ([email hidden])

John Thompson said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

I've never accidentally pulled out of my road pedals, either, which did
happen a few times with SPDs, even with the tension at maximum.

Quoted message said:

I've seen lots of guys pull out of Looks.

It's true. That's why the track rides use toeclips and double straps.

Also, track riders are a conservative lot. You can still see some steel
bars on the track occasionally, and even after 1970 some people I rode
with used block chain. I have also seen trackies pull out with toeclips,
double straps, and cleats.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I believe that the motion picture is destined to revolutionize
_`\(,_ | our educational system and that in a few years it will supplant
(_)/ (_) | largely, if not entirely, the use of textbooks -- Thomas
Edison, 1922

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
(I asked):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Which spud pedals, ATB or road, have adjustable release tension?

(OB replied):

Quoted message said:

*Every* one I have ever seen? Which ones *do not* have adjustable
release tension?

The ones I've used in Spin class. I started looking through the Shimano
offerings; sorry, I didn't feel like staying around. Even though I'm a
booster of the Ultegra 6610's. Maybe they'll stay with this design?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Wearing cleats down is a viable criticism.

Gee thanks for agreeing. It means the world to me.

Glad you care? Lighten up.

(me):

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Walking like a duck is a "who cares", IMHO <g>.

(him):

Quoted message said:

It goes beyond "walking like a duck" and extends into unsure footing.
Years ago, a friend's GF, an experienced rider, came upon a stop sign
at the top of a fairly steep rise. When she put a foot down, her big
exposed cleat slipped on the pavement, she went down and got a pretty
nasty knee laceration. Walkable shoes with a recessed cleat and a
reasonable sole probably wouldn't have slid on the pavement. Pro racers
don't come upon stop signs, do they?

Bad things happen to good people. I try for a heel strike or at least a
heel plant; but then I came up on the old white plastic Sidi Titanium
cleats. I also mentioned the favorable observations heard when someone
attended our "racer" ride wearing ATB shoes. Fine with all; but unknown
territory for most of us who have found "roadie" shoes/pedals that work
for our uses.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The "fred" thing? Somebody might be trying to tell you something...

Huh? Tom Sherman mentioned that not me.

Apologies. A simple error of attribution which I think you understood.

(snip)

Quoted message said:

WTF are you going on about?

I think you understood that, too. --D-y

Jim Higson said:

Don't mountain bikers stand quite a lot too to get over technical and steep
sections?

Sure, but presumably the benefit that road pedals would offer in these
sections is minimal, because the sections are short and rough, and
outweighed by the benefits of SPD for mountain biking - being able to
walk, ride unclipped, and tolerate a lot of dirt.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Peter Cole said:

I always find it amusing when roadies claim that their riding is much
more demanding of pedals than off road riding.

I didn't claim any such thing - as I mentioned elsewhere, the benefits of
SPD for mounting biking surely outweigh the extra stability.

Your chip is showing.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw