Riding in the drops: How much benefit?

[jjjtttggg]

I know it probably varies wildly with the size of the rider, design of the bike, speed, wind, whether its Tuesday or Wednesday, etc., but in general, does anybody have any somewhat quantitative insight into the benefit of riding in the drops? I'm specifically thinking about when riding solo on a flat at about 22mph or so. I know it decreases drag significantly and thereby increases speed, so as one who tends to get dropped on the way up and has to catch up on the flat on the other side, I know I need to do it, but I don't find it particularly comfortable at all. I think it would help if I could constantly remind myself how much faster I'm likely to be riding if I stay down. I suppose I could do some tests of my own, but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or knows of any data on the topic?

Thanks
J

 

[d_paul1]

I know it probably varies wildly with the size of the rider, design of the bike, speed, wind, whether its Tuesday or Wednesday, etc., but in general, does anybody have any somewhat quantitative insight into the benefit of riding in the drops? I'm specifically thinking about when riding solo on a flat at about 22mph or so. I know it decreases drag significantly and thereby increases speed, so as one who tends to get dropped on the way up and has to catch up on the flat on the other side, I know I need to do it, but I don't find it particularly comfortable at all. I think it would help if I could constantly remind myself how much faster I'm likely to be riding if I stay down. I suppose I could do some tests of my own, but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or knows of any data on the topic?

Thanks
J

Try here: http://w3.iac.net/~curta/bp/velocity/velocity.html
You may also ask this question in the Power Training Forum.

 

[squidwranglr]

I know it probably varies wildly with the size of the rider, design of the bike, speed, wind, whether its Tuesday or Wednesday, etc., but in general, does anybody have any somewhat quantitative insight into the benefit of riding in the drops?

Head on over to:

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

enter some parameters you think are relevant (i.e. your height and weight, slope, speed, etc.) and have it calculate the power for you. Then clear out the speed box (this will be the hint to the calculator to use the power value to compute the speed) and toggle your choice between "hands on the tops" and "hands on the drops" to get an analytical model idea of how much of a speed difference you may expect at a given power output (effort).

For example, for me (5'6", 147 lbs), riding a 0.5% grade (i.e. flat) with 220 W power yields 18.4 mph on the hoods and 20.5 mph on the drops.

Berend

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I know it probably varies wildly with the size of the rider, design of the bike, speed, wind, whether its Tuesday or Wednesday, etc., but in general, does anybody have any somewhat quantitative insight into the benefit of riding in the drops? I'm specifically thinking about when riding solo on a flat at about 22mph or so. I know it decreases drag significantly and thereby increases speed, so as one who tends to get dropped on the way up and has to catch up on the flat on the other side, I know I need to do it, but I don't find it particularly comfortable at all. I think it would help if I could constantly remind myself how much faster I'm likely to be riding if I stay down. I suppose I could do some tests of my own, but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or knows of any data on the topic?

Thanks
J

You could also try analyticcycling.com as well as the other sites.

More importantly though, if you don't find the position on your drops comfortable it may well be an idea to think about seeing someone who can help fit you on the bike, into a possibly more comfortable position.

Alternatively, it may be that you just don't ride on the drops sufficiently and therefore the change of position is always new and a strain. Perhaps training more in the drops may alleviate this

ric

 

[buzznet]

I don't have all the facts and figures but I can't believe you posted this thread Ric, I just spent the last week on the drops as much as possible because I had a break thru and realized that the "drops" are my thing.

I am a LOT more comfortable on the drops as well as stronger and of course more aero. Plus mentally, at least to me, it's a more "aggressive" approach.

I normally push Way out on the front of the saddle and put my head down ( off and on as far as my nose touching the stem ) so i am really compact and tight.

I feel the strongest and most comfortable like this of any riding postion I have ever tried.

The problem I have is pulling my head up to look far enough up the road. It REALLY takes a huge amount of effort because it messes with my compact state. So i find myself doing it in a rhythm with my cadence.

I'm a small rider but I have been working on staying in this same compact form out of the saddle on the flats as I can go a LOT harder thru the flats on the drops.

In a nutshell, get a little more crazy with your riding positions, push out on the saddle, I mean way out so the end is poking your ass and put your head over the bars so you are eating your stem. Then maybe back off from there to find your spot. Most of all, simply make an effort to work the drops more on your rides.

Just wanted to give my 2 cents since i am currently going through drops ecstasy

 

[Doctor Morbius]

See pic for the ultimate aero position. Too bad it's no longer allowed. I thought it was pretty innovative.

 

[Hypnospin]

you might be more aero on the hoods with the arms bent from the elbows so as to have the forearms horizontal, if you are positioned to get the torso relatively low enough.

in a race situation, or one that calls for maximum manueverability and braking force, the drops are the way to go.

but be aware of what is appropriate for you, as to how much of a crouch you can handle, and are adapted to handle, without pushing your thighs into your ab region and affecting your comfort level with breathing restriction and low back inefficiency.

as power varies with many dynamic factors, the switching of position from tops to hoods may increase power due to alternating the mucle groups involved and reducing fatigue, inducing recovery while varying leverage and tracking factors.
you could get the cold lowdown with a ~$3000 srm unit to read the watts...

but when it comes down to it,

what sprint winner above a certain level comes across on the tops or hoods?

or on the track?

I know it probably varies wildly with the size of the rider, design of the bike, speed, wind, whether its Tuesday or Wednesday, etc., but in general, does anybody have any somewhat quantitative insight into the benefit of riding in the drops? I'm specifically thinking about when riding solo on a flat at about 22mph or so. I know it decreases drag significantly and thereby increases speed, so as one who tends to get dropped on the way up and has to catch up on the flat on the other side, I know I need to do it, but I don't find it particularly comfortable at all. I think it would help if I could constantly remind myself how much faster I'm likely to be riding if I stay down. I suppose I could do some tests of my own, but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or knows of any data on the topic?

Thanks
J

 

[dhk]

In addition to just getting low, believe it's also very important to have the elbows and knees tucked in. I like riding in the drops, but a good aero alternate for me is to put the hands on either side of the stem, elbows right in, and curl the shoulders forward.

At the Td Georgia TT this spring, noticed a big variation in back angle or lowness. Some of the pros had the classic flat back, with their chins almost on the stem. Other fast guys, like Lance, sat more upright with a curved back. What appeared consistent for all the pros was having the elbows and knees, tucked in, as well as the head down.

 

[Doctor Morbius]

...At the Td Georgia TT this spring, noticed a big variation in back angle or lowness. Some of the pros had the classic flat back, with their chins almost on the stem. Other fast guys, like Lance, sat more upright with a curved back. What appeared consistent for all the pros was having the elbows and knees, tucked in, as well as the head down.

Armstrong has a lower back condition called Spondylolisthesis which prevents him from having a flat back like other riders. He has very low flexibility in his low back. I know this because I have the same condition. Our similarity on a bike ends there though!

 

[stormer94]

I know it probably varies wildly with the size of the rider, design of the bike, speed, wind, whether its Tuesday or Wednesday, etc., but in general, does anybody have any somewhat quantitative insight into the benefit of riding in the drops? I'm specifically thinking about when riding solo on a flat at about 22mph or so. I know it decreases drag significantly and thereby increases speed, so as one who tends to get dropped on the way up and has to catch up on the flat on the other side, I know I need to do it, but I don't find it particularly comfortable at all. I think it would help if I could constantly remind myself how much faster I'm likely to be riding if I stay down. I suppose I could do some tests of my own, but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or knows of any data on the topic?

Thanks
J

I don't know about quantitative, but I fool with the positions out of curiousity and boredom on the road. Here are some general, and I mean "GENERAL" things I've noticed abnout me. I haven't really put a pencil to it, because I know which one is faster for me. On the hoods is the slowest. Concentrating on being "low" and in the drops gets me about a mph or so, and in a good "aero" position with "aero" bars, I can pull another 15-20% mph over being on the hoods. It may be more than that, but I've just noticed things like, riding at 20mph, get "aero" and go 22-24 with the same effort. I don't notice as much difference between the hoods and the drops, as compared to the aero bars. But it is faster for me than the hoods, I just tend not to do the drops (although now that I think about it, I tend to ride the drops on fast downhills). For a while I was trying to be aero without aero bars by resting my fore arms on the handle bars. The fore arms get sore, but in a pinch, you can gain some speed when you can't run a bar. Arguably not a very safe way to ride and something you should avoid in traffic.

I will say the times that I "SEROIUSLY" concentrate on peddling technique are worth more than being in the drops. It would appear I have a low attention span and am quite happy to simply mash on the peddles most of the time.


You know, thinking about it a bit more, I feel I'm faster in the drops, but less comfortable, kind of cramped for space. When I'm aero, I'm more stretched out, and when I'm climbing or on the hoods, I'm wider, taller, and able to get air more easily. I wonder if that little advantage I see in the drops is offset by slighlty less comfort? Don't know.

 

[stormer94]

Armstrong .. <snippage>.. Our similarity on a bike ends there though!

I don't know man, considering we have to tote around one additional testicle, I think we are right there....

Just having some fun with a grim situation, don't bag on me.

Can't wait for July, it's "TOUR TIME". Gotta get my TIVO programmed, and sit around the TV in my Discovery channel jersey.

 

[Don Shipp]

I know it probably varies wildly with the size of the rider, design of the bike, speed, wind, whether its Tuesday or Wednesday, etc., but in general, does anybody have any somewhat quantitative insight into the benefit of riding in the drops? I'm specifically thinking about when riding solo on a flat at about 22mph or so. I know it decreases drag significantly and thereby increases speed, so as one who tends to get dropped on the way up and has to catch up on the flat on the other side, I know I need to do it, but I don't find it particularly comfortable at all. I think it would help if I could constantly remind myself how much faster I'm likely to be riding if I stay down. I suppose I could do some tests of my own, but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or knows of any data on the topic?

Thanks
J

I ride on the drops all the time and I find any other position uncomfortable. If I sit more upright, I am immediately aware of increased air resistance, even when riding uphill or just slowly.
If you find riding on the drops uncomfortable, there are three most likely reasons.
1. The bike has not been set up correctly for this type of riding.
2. You may have some lack of flexibility or some other physical problem that is aggravated by this position.
3. You just aren't used to it, need to do more.
Obviously, don't consider (3) until you have ruled out or sorted out (1) and (2).

 

[jjjtttggg]

...

Thanks for all the info. Very helpful.

Best regards,
J