Revive owners

Well I have to admit, Ian must be "edycated";-) I suddenly realized by reading his post where our
opinions are crossed! He is right...I mistakenly assumed that the distance you found to travel per
revolution in the DX's first gear IS NOT the same as ratios measured in gear inches. Also I had made
the mistake of counting the revolutions of the crank everytime one of the cranks was up instead of
full revolutions. Duhhhh!!! I stuck my foot in my mouth. Sorry Offsite!!!

After reading Ian's post, I went outside the house into the dark and got the Revive and did a
rollout in first gear in "1". I used my flashlight to mark the starting point and stopped as soon as
the crank made a complete 360 degree turn. I then measured using my shoe and walked from the
starting point to where the front wheel had stopped. Yes I know it's far from accurate but the
distance traveled is not quite 9 feet.

Again apologies for my goof up!

I think you should try a standard Revive and make the comparison yourself;-)

Cheers Edward Wong Orlando, FL

"Offsite" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Ed,

Would you be willing to help me understand why simple rules of mechanics

don't

Quoted message said:

seem to apply to your model of the wonderful, innovative (in my opinion,

anyway)

Quoted message said:

Revive bike... <grin>

If your front (chain ring) sprocket has 48 teeth, and your rear (cassette) sprocket has 26 teeth,
and you rotate the chain ring one full revolution,

the

Quoted message said:

rear sprocket will rotate almost two times (48/26 = 1.85).

And since the rear wheel is directly attached to the rear sprocket it must

also

Quoted message said:

rotate almost two times for each chain ring (crank) revolution.

So if your tire is nominally 20" in diameter, the bike should roll almost

63"

Quoted message said:

for every single revolution of the tire... and for almost two revolutions

of the

Quoted message said:

tire, the bike should roll almost 10 ft! ( 9.67 ft. to be exact)... just

like

Quoted message said:

the DX we measured in Dave's shop yesterday.

So how is it that your bike only rolls 34" for every rotation of the chain

ring

Quoted message said:

(crank)... did you *actually* try this experiment? <grin>

[14 friends and neighbors are on line and eagerly awaiting the answer to

this

Quoted message said:

mystery]... 🙂)

PS: when Dave (shop owner here) called Giant tech services to ask about

the

Quoted message said:

smaller chain ring, the person he reached said there were none available

since

Quoted message said:

the chain ring was riveted to the crank assembly??... and since we

*really* want

Quoted message said:

to buy and enjoy these two DXs, we are hoping somebody here at a/r/b/r has

a

Quoted message said:

better connection to Giant engineering and can assure us a fix is in the

works

Quoted message said:

for this otherwise splendid machine.

Edward Wong said:

Quoted message said:

Also, I think I see where Dave's calcs led him astray last night...I found the web site Dave
mentioned, and if you correctly plug in his sprocket ratios at the low end you get 116" of
bike travel for each revolution of the crank (48 tooth front, 26" tooth rear)... but if you
invert that ratio by mistake in the calc you end up with 34" (which is what Dave initially
stated as his bike travel for one crank rev)...

Hi Offsite,

I have to agree with Derek in that the important thing is to ride a bike that is comfortable and
fun to ride. The technical stuff can move by

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wayside;-)

Well I see that you did correct my name in your post from "Dave" to "Ed"

in.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However I'm still under the impression that you feel my gear ratio calculations are "off". Am I
correct? I went to the website with the

gear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

calculator and I plugged in the following values:

Wheel Size 20 X 1.75/44-406 BMX Crank Length 170mm Gear units Gear inches Chainrings 48 Stock
Cassette 8-speed "V" 13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26

And here is the result I got back:

Gear chart using Gear Inches For 20 X 1.75 / 44-406 / BMX tire with 170 mm cranks With 8-speed
"V" 13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26 Cassette 48 13 69.0
7.7 % 14 64.0
7.1 % 15 59.8
13.3 % 17 52.7
11.8 % 19 47.2
10.5 % 21 42.7
9.5 % 23 39.0
13. % 26 34.5

So in gear "1" on my shifter I am in the 26 tooth size cog and it will

yield

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a forward movement of 34.5 inches for each revolution of the crank.

That's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

well under 1 meter...in fact under 1 yard (3 feet) even. On the other

end

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in 8th gear, the bike will use the 13 tooth cog and move forward 69

inches

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for each revolution of the crank which I had humourously mentioned in my other post is
equivilent to my height. These are real numbers.

Now on to your real concern. The first Revive I test rode was a DX. I

did

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

casually mention to the bike shop employee that I thought first gear may

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a little on the high side even though that really doesn't matter here in Orlando which is
relatively flat. He told me that fitting a smaller chainring is not an issue. The DX uses a 48
tooth chainring just like

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

standard Revive. Maybe a 40 or 42 tooth chainring would be better.

If there are no other issues with the DX, I firmly believe the both of

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will love this bike. Like Derek mentioned, it is fun and very

comfortable

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to ride and stylist to boot;-)

Happy trails, Edward Wong Orlando, FL

Well said Ed!

Thanks, Ed, for helping a newbie (me) understand Ian's reply... sounds like the concept of gear
inches is one best left to those who know the correct terminology (not me)... 🙂

But back to the original question... does anyone here have contact with Giant engineering to
determine if the US version of the DX will soon have a lower gear ratio retrofit available?

9 bikes likely will be ordered next week at just this one shop if the answer turns out to be
something like "yes, the kit will be available right after interbike"... cause a lot of people that
see these DXs find them to be just the right concept for a bike they would actually ride... as Derek
so wisely discussed earlier.

Edward Wong said:

Well I have to admit, Ian must be "edycated";-) I suddenly realized by reading his post where our
opinions are crossed! He is right...I mistakenly assumed that the distance you found to travel per
revolution in the DX's first gear IS NOT the same as ratios measured in gear inches. Also I had
made the mistake of counting the revolutions of the crank everytime one of the cranks was up
instead of full revolutions. Duhhhh!!! I stuck my foot in my mouth. Sorry Offsite!!!

After reading Ian's post, I went outside the house into the dark and got the Revive and did a
rollout in first gear in "1". I used my flashlight to mark the starting point and stopped as soon
as the crank made a complete 360 degree turn. I then measured using my shoe and walked from the
starting point to where the front wheel had stopped. Yes I know it's far from accurate but the
distance traveled is not quite 9 feet.

Again apologies for my goof up!

I think you should try a standard Revive and make the comparison yourself;-)

Cheers Edward Wong Orlando, FL

"Offsite" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Ed,

Would you be willing to help me understand why simple rules of mechanics

don't

Quoted message said:

seem to apply to your model of the wonderful, innovative (in my opinion,

anyway)

Quoted message said:

Revive bike... <grin>

If your front (chain ring) sprocket has 48 teeth, and your rear (cassette) sprocket has 26
teeth, and you rotate the chain ring one full revolution,

the

Quoted message said:

rear sprocket will rotate almost two times (48/26 = 1.85).

And since the rear wheel is directly attached to the rear sprocket it must

also

Quoted message said:

rotate almost two times for each chain ring (crank) revolution.

So if your tire is nominally 20" in diameter, the bike should roll almost

63"

Quoted message said:

for every single revolution of the tire... and for almost two revolutions

of the

Quoted message said:

tire, the bike should roll almost 10 ft! ( 9.67 ft. to be exact)... just

like

Quoted message said:

the DX we measured in Dave's shop yesterday.

So how is it that your bike only rolls 34" for every rotation of the chain

ring

Quoted message said:

(crank)... did you *actually* try this experiment? <grin>

[14 friends and neighbors are on line and eagerly awaiting the answer to

this

Quoted message said:

mystery]... 🙂)

PS: when Dave (shop owner here) called Giant tech services to ask about

the

Quoted message said:

smaller chain ring, the person he reached said there were none available

since

Quoted message said:

the chain ring was riveted to the crank assembly??... and since we

*really* want

Quoted message said:

to buy and enjoy these two DXs, we are hoping somebody here at a/r/b/r has

a

Quoted message said:

better connection to Giant engineering and can assure us a fix is in the

works

Quoted message said:

for this otherwise splendid machine.

Edward Wong said:

> Also, I think I see where Dave's calcs led him astray last night...I found the web site Dave
> mentioned, and if you correctly plug in his sprocket ratios at the low end you get 116" of
> bike travel for each revolution of the crank (48 tooth front, 26" tooth rear)... but if you
> invert that ratio by mistake in the calc you end up with 34" (which is what Dave initially
> stated as his bike travel for one crank rev)...

Hi Offsite,

I have to agree with Derek in that the important thing is to ride a bike that is comfortable
and fun to ride. The technical stuff can move by

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wayside;-)

Well I see that you did correct my name in your post from "Dave" to "Ed"

in.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However I'm still under the impression that you feel my gear ratio calculations are "off". Am
I correct? I went to the website with the

gear

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

calculator and I plugged in the following values:

Wheel Size 20 X 1.75/44-406 BMX Crank Length 170mm Gear units Gear inches Chainrings 48 Stock
Cassette 8-speed "V" 13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26

And here is the result I got back:

Gear chart using Gear Inches For 20 X 1.75 / 44-406 / BMX tire with 170 mm cranks With 8-speed
"V" 13-14-15-17-19-21-23-26 Cassette 48 13 69.0
7.7 % 14 64.0
7.1 % 15 59.8
13.3 % 17 52.7
11.8 % 19 47.2
10.5 % 21 42.7
9.5 % 23 39.0
13. % 26 34.5

So in gear "1" on my shifter I am in the 26 tooth size cog and it will

yield

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a forward movement of 34.5 inches for each revolution of the crank.

That's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

well under 1 meter...in fact under 1 yard (3 feet) even. On the other

end

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in 8th gear, the bike will use the 13 tooth cog and move forward 69

inches

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for each revolution of the crank which I had humourously mentioned in my other post is
equivilent to my height. These are real numbers.

Now on to your real concern. The first Revive I test rode was a DX. I

did

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

casually mention to the bike shop employee that I thought first gear may

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a little on the high side even though that really doesn't matter here in Orlando which is
relatively flat. He told me that fitting a smaller chainring is not an issue. The DX uses a 48
tooth chainring just like

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

standard Revive. Maybe a 40 or 42 tooth chainring would be better.

If there are no other issues with the DX, I firmly believe the both of

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will love this bike. Like Derek mentioned, it is fun and very

comfortable

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to ride and stylist to boot;-)

Happy trails, Edward Wong Orlando, FL

Tell you what...tomorrow Sunday I will go to the bike shop I got my Revive from (they're literally
within walking distance but I'll ride "my favorite bike;-) and see if the owner is there and find
out for me. His chain of bike shops is highly regarded by the Giant distributor. His business has
one of the Revive prototypes in their posession if that means anything.

I am still at a lost as to why Giant chose to rivet the chainring to the crankset. It doesn't make
any sense as even cheap bikes have the capability to have chainrings changed out. If this is true, I
will find out from the bike shop mechanics just how involved it would be to change out the crankset
with another size chainring.

That's amazing that so many people you know are potential Revive owners. Looks like you can start a
club once you get your bikes;-)

Happy trails, Edward Wong Orlando, FL

"Offsite" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, Ed, for helping a newbie (me) understand Ian's reply... sounds

like the

Quoted message said:

concept of gear inches is one best left to those who know the correct terminology (not me)... 🙂

But back to the original question... does anyone here have contact with

Giant

Quoted message said:

engineering to determine if the US version of the DX will soon have a

lower gear

Quoted message said:

ratio retrofit available?

9 bikes likely will be ordered next week at just this one shop if the

answer

Quoted message said:

turns out to be something like "yes, the kit will be available right after interbike"... cause a
lot of people that see these DXs find them to be

just the

Quoted message said:

right concept for a bike they would actually ride... as Derek so wisely discussed earlier.

Bob,

It seems several people agree that the DX may be a tad overgeared for climbing good sized hills. I
guess this is where your opinion and feedback to Giant would come in handy.

A smaller chainring would be a an easy and cheap fix but I think that another option for the DX
could be the new 8 speed Nexus hub with it's 307% spread vs 244% for the current 7 speed model. This
would give it a wider gear range with a lower low and a higher high.

I am exited by the impending introduction of the electric version of the Revive but would definitely
be most interested in the 21 speed Revive DD which I believe would be a great seller as well.

Happy trails, Edward Wong Orlando, FL

"DrRecumbnt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

We've got nearly 30 miles on our dx. I've ridden it up hills in and around

Port

Quoted message said:

Townsend. I have to pick and choose my routes like I did when I reviewed

the

Quoted message said:

Giant HalfWay or any other 1, 3,4, 6, 7, 8 or 9 speed bike. The gearing could be a tad lower.

Giant has done an excellent job with this bike. It's very refined and

should be

Quoted message said:

very popular. The 21 speed DualDrive and LaFree electric versions will be

the

Quoted message said:

icing on the cake. Giant took a big chance and should be congratulated.

This

Quoted message said:

bike gets a lot of attention. We had it out and about town today at the

Kinetic

Quoted message said:

Race and it got as much, if not more attention than our BiGHA test bike.

Bob Bryant recumbentcyclistnews.comrecumbentcyclistnews.comOpen ↗

Edward Wong must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

You have the first part of the equation right by dividing the size of the sprocket (chainring) by
the rear cog. The second part is multiplying that result by the diameter, not the circunference of
the tire. Also, the 406 20 inch tire is not nominally 20 inches exact. It is more like 18.7-18.8
inches. So using the result from the first part of the mathmatical operation which is 1.85 and
multiplying by 18.7 (the true diameter) will give you 34.59 gear inches. Very close to the 34.5
from the online calculator. Remember there is another variable and that's crank length. This is
just a "rough" way to quickly find out an approximate gear ratio given specific values such as
chainring, cog and tire size.

Remember that I did observe how much I rolled ahead with each crank revolution last night on my
Revive and it seemed like 3 feet or so...less than the length of the bike. A ratio of 2 meters
developed or so is quite high for a first gear though some of those single speed beach cruisers
are close. Maybe the DX is geared that way, I don't know. I can tell you how my bike is geared;-)
I do believe that there is an explanation of gain ratios, gear inches, etc. on Sheldon's site.

I didn't know that the chainring is riveted to the crank assembly. Tomorrow morning I am going to
take a close look at mine.

If you multiply the gear inches by PI then you will have the distance in inches per revolution on
the crank.

--
Ian

catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.ukOpen ↗

I multiplied 34.5 gear inches by 3.14 and got 108.33 inches traveled per revolution in my lowest
gear (1). When I divided by 12 to get the equivalent in feet I got 9.0275 which is just over 9 feet.
Am I correct?

On this webpage (sheldonbrown.comgain.htmlOpen ↗) Sheldon suggests briefly explains the
different systems to quantify bicycle gearing and he favors the one called "gain ratios".

Thanks for your input Ian. Now hopefully we can put all this technical "mumbo jumbo" to rest (for
awhile;-) and talk about having fun riding our bikes;-)

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

"Ian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Wong must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

You have the first part of the equation right by dividing the size of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sprocket (chainring) by the rear cog. The second part is multiplying

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

result by the diameter, not the circunference of the tire. Also, the

406 20

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

inch tire is not nominally 20 inches exact. It is more like 18.7-18.8 inches. So using the
result from the first part of the mathmatical operation which is 1.85 and multiplying by 18.7
(the true diameter) will give you 34.59 gear inches. Very close to the 34.5 from the online
calculator. Remember there is another variable and that's crank length. This is just a "rough"
way to quickly find out an approximate gear ratio given specific values such as chainring, cog
and tire size.

Remember that I did observe how much I rolled ahead with each crank revolution last night on my
Revive and it seemed like 3 feet or

so...less

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than the length of the bike. A ratio of 2 meters developed or so is

quite

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

high for a first gear though some of those single speed beach cruisers

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

close. Maybe the DX is geared that way, I don't know. I can tell you

how

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my bike is geared;-) I do believe that there is an explanation of gain ratios, gear inches, etc.
on Sheldon's site.

I didn't know that the chainring is riveted to the crank assembly.

Tomorrow

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

morning I am going to take a close look at mine.

If you multiply the gear inches by PI then you will have the distance in inches per revolution on
the crank.

--
Ian

catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.ukOpen ↗

Edward Wong must be edykated coz e writed:

Quoted message said:

I multiplied 34.5 gear inches by 3.14 and got 108.33 inches traveled per revolution in my lowest
gear (1). When I divided by 12 to get the equivalent in feet I got 9.0275 which is just over 9
feet. Am I correct?

On this webpage (sheldonbrown.comgain.htmlOpen ↗) Sheldon suggests briefly explains the
different systems to quantify bicycle gearing and he favors the one called "gain ratios".

Thanks for your input Ian. Now hopefully we can put all this technical "mumbo jumbo" to rest (for
awhile;-) and talk about having fun riding our bikes;-)

Sounds right to me, the only reason I am up on this is because of the development I am putting into
the Catrike for the EU market, most days I find myself thinking about gear development at some
point. (Sad eh?)

--
Ian

catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.ukOpen ↗

--------------E6D43B247185D310993BB980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Edward Wong said:

Tell you what...tomorrow Sunday I will go to the bike shop I got my Revive from (they're literally
within walking distance but I'll ride "my favorite bike;-) and see if the owner is there and find
out for me. His chain of bike shops is highly regarded by the Giant distributor. His business has
one of the Revive prototypes in their posession if that means anything.

Cool, Ed! he sounds like exactly the right person to get the answers... we are very grateful for
your willingness to resolve this.

Quoted message said:

I am still at a lost as to why Giant chose to rivet the chainring to the crankset. It doesn't make
any sense as even cheap bikes have the capability to have chainrings changed out. If this is true,
I will find out from the bike shop mechanics just how involved it would be to change out the
crankset with another size chainring.

Got a call last night about 7:30 from our shop guy here (who seems to be aspiring to the role of
king of customer service)... he had been experimenting with installing a different crank assembly
with a 24 tooth front sprocket... but since it was part of a three sprocket assembly, he needed to
remove the spider (sp?) or something like that so the remaining single sprocket would fit in the
DX's chain ring enclosure.

I asked why so low a ratio (from the original DX 48 tooth sprocket) and he said something about
compatibility of existing sprockets limiting his choices.

My guess is we'd all be better off with a *factory* fix...

Quoted message said:

That's amazing that so many people you know are potential Revive owners. Looks like you can start
a club once you get your bikes;-)

We chalk that up to the population density here, Ed... seems like 20 people per ft-sq sometimes...
but mostly it's due (in my opinion) to the brilliant design the engineers at Giant came up with...
(for the particular market segment that includes my wife and myself, of course ... since I'm
guessing there is a whole world of 'bent purists out there who would find a 45lb 7speed semi
recumbent bike more of an amusement than something they would ever be caught dead
riding..<chuckle> ).

Just test riding the bikes in the area around the shop, my wife and I were repeatedly stopped by
peds wanting to know about the bike... and our associates who are waiting to buy them have been in
the drooling phase for about 2 weeks now... hence all the intensity to find out about *factory* mods
that will fix the gearing issue for us.

PS: Ed, thanks for your patience with newbie bikers (us) asking questions that probably seem dumb to
the regulars here... and thanks for the link to Sheldon Brown's site... his concept of gain
ratio seems to have two things going for it:

(1) it is a true end-to-end assessment, and

(2) it can be determined empirically (for cases where you can't see the gearing structures, such as
inside the DX hub) simply by measuring the distance the bike rolls in one crank revolution and
dividing that distance by the crank length x
2.1.

Elegant simplicity from Sheldon Brown... Bravo!

Best regards, -Erik and Elke-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Happy trails, Edward Wong Orlando, FL

"Offsite" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, Ed, for helping a newbie (me) understand Ian's reply... sounds

like the

Quoted message said:

concept of gear inches is one best left to those who know the correct terminology (not me)... 🙂

But back to the original question... does anyone here have contact with

Giant

Quoted message said:

engineering to determine if the US version of the DX will soon have a

lower gear

Quoted message said:

ratio retrofit available?

9 bikes likely will be ordered next week at just this one shop if the

answer

Quoted message said:

turns out to be something like "yes, the kit will be available right after interbike"... cause a
lot of people that see these DXs find them to be

just the

Quoted message said:

right concept for a bike they would actually ride... as Derek so wisely discussed earlier.

--------------E6D43B247185D310993BB980 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>
<p>Edward Wong wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Tell you what...tomorrow Sunday I will go to the bike
shop I got my Revive <br>from (they're literally within walking distance but I'll ride "my
favorite <br>bike;-) and see if the owner is there and find out for me. His chain of
<br>bike shops is highly regarded by the Giant distributor. His business has <br>one of the
Revive prototypes in their posession if that means anything.</blockquote>
<q>Cool, Ed! he sounds like exactly the right person to get the answers... we are very
grateful for your willingness to resolve this.</i> <br><i></i> <blockquote TYPE=CITE>I am
still at a lost as to why Giant chose to rivet the chainring to the <br>crankset. It
doesn't make any sense as even cheap bikes have the capability <br>to have chainrings changed
out. If this is true, I will find out from the <br>bike shop mechanics just how involved it
would be to change out the crankset <br>with another size chainring. <br> </blockquote>
<r>Got a call last night about 7:30 from our shop guy here (who seems to be aspiring to the role of
king of customer service)... he had been experimenting with installing a different crank assembly
with a 24 tooth front sprocket... but since it was part of a three sprocket assembly, he needed
to remove the spider (sp?) or something like that so the remaining single sprocket would fit in
the DX's chain ring enclosure.</i><i></i>
<r><a>I asked why so low a ratio (from the original DX 48 tooth sprocket) and he said something
about compatibility of existing sprockets limiting his choices.</i><i></i>
<r><b>My guess is we'd all be better off with a *factory* fix...</i> <blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>That's amazing that so many people you know are potential Revive owners. <br>Looks like
you can start a club once you get your bikes;-)</blockquote>
<s>We chalk that up to the population density here, Ed... seems like 20 people per ft-sq
sometimes... but mostly it's due (in my opinion) to the brilliant design the engineers at Giant
came up with... (for the particular market segment that includes my wife and myself, of course
... since I'm guessing there is a whole world of 'bent purists out there who would find a 45lb
7speed semi recumbent bike more of an amusement than something they would ever be caught dead
riding..<chuckle> ).</i><i></i>
<s><a>Just test riding the bikes in the area around the shop, my wife and I were repeatedly stopped
by peds wanting to know about the bike... and our associates who are waiting to buy them have
been in the drooling phase for about 2 weeks now... hence all the intensity to find out about
*factory* mods that will fix the gearing issue for us.</i>
<s><b>PS: Ed, thanks for your patience with newbie bikers (us) asking questions that probably seem
dumb to the regulars here... and thanks for the link to Sheldon Brown's site... his concept of
gain ratio seems to have two things going for it:</i><i></i>
<s><b>(1) it is a true end-to-end assessment, and</i><i></i>
<s><b>(2) it can be determined empirically (for cases where you can't see the gearing structures,
such as inside the DX hub) simply by measuring the distance the bike rolls in one crank
revolution and dividing that distance by the crank length x 6.28.</i><i></i>
<s><c>Elegant simplicity from Sheldon Brown... Bravo!</i><i></i>
<s><d>Best regards,</i> <br><i>-Erik and Elke-</i> <blockquote TYPE=CITE> </blockquote>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE> <br>Happy trails, <br>Edward Wong <br>Orlando, FL
<t>"Offsite" <[email hidden]> wrote in message <br><a
href=""]news:[email hidden]">"]news:[email hidden]</a>... <br>> Thanks,
Ed, for helping a newbie (me) understand Ian's reply... sounds <br>like the <br>> concept of gear
inches is one best left to those who know the correct <br>> terminology (not
me)... 🙂 <br>> <br>> But back to the original question... does anyone here
have contact with <br>Giant <br>> engineering to determine if the US version of the DX will soon
have a <br>lower gear <br>> ratio retrofit available? <br>> <br>> 9 bikes likely will be ordered
next week at just this one shop if the <br>answer <br>> turns out to be something like "yes, the
kit will be available right after <br>> interbike"... cause a lot of people that see these
DXs find them to be <br>just the <br>> right concept for a bike they would actually ride... as
Derek so wisely <br>> discussed earlier.</blockquote> </html>

--------------E6D43B247185D310993BB980--

And in unrelated news. Theres a pretty Rebike on E-bay. Also a Rans Response. Seems like a nice
place for "antique" bents.

A follow up ... the Dutch site of Giant now has info and pictures of the other models that are not
as yet (I believe) offered in the US.

Click on the drop down box under Revive and see the different models. The info is in Dutch, but you
can probably figure most of the stuff out.

Hey, folks! The gear ratio discussion went over this ole' boy's head, but let me throw in a comment regarding the Revive's hill climbing problems. The Revive, indeed, doesn't have the best gear set for pounding up hills. Here in the Ozarks we've got lots of little steep hills and some long drawn out hills that cry out for three chainrings...

But as the season continued, I noticed that my muscle set became stronger to the point where the hills weren't a problem.
As I trained, the legs became used to the Revive's geometry and I learned how to push efficiently against the back rest for additional torque. Conditioning plays a role in the Revive's hill climbing ability as well as gear sets and the overall weight of the bike.

Those are just my thoughts. I think the Revive has the capability to be an really nice touring bike with additional gears and larger rear wheel. I've logged over 700 of the most scenic and comfortable miles ever this summer due the Revive's comfort concept. The hills were hard at first, but now they're not much of problem...

In fact, I think a bigger problem is the high drag one suffers due to the Revive's upright riding position! Seriously, on a two-day tour last month the Ozark hills were not nearly as bad as the Kansas wind blowing against my chest! I felt like a parachute!

Take care all,

DR

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Drrecumbnt
I've ridden it up hills in and around Port Townsend. I have to
pick and choose my routes like I did when I reviewed the Giant HalfWay or any other 1, 3,4, 6, 7, 8
or 9 speed bike. The gearing could be a tad lower.

Giant has done an excellent job with this bike. It's very refined and should be very popular.
Bob Bryant recumbentcyclistnews.comrecumbentcyclistnews.comOpen ↗

DR, Shimano is coming out with an 8-speed hub that has a range of 303%. The stock one is
something like 247% so you can have an extra low gear. If you really, really want to go for it, a
Rohloff 14-speed rear hub has a range of 525%. Should run a cool grand to get one built up but it
would be great!

John H N TX

The 7 speed is 244% and the 8 speed will have a 307% range. Reviverider's bike is like mine in that
it uses a traditional derailleur setup. Though mine is the newer model, I believe both have the same
13-26 cluster in the rear and a 48 tooth chainring in the front.

One of the mechanics at Bike Works, the shop where I got mine, fantasizes constantly about getting a
Revive and adding a Rohloff in addition to a lighter wheelset, narrower fast rolling tires, high
performance bottom bracket, high end front hub, etc. I think by the time he adds all the cost of
these upgrades he snaps out of it;-)

I have to agree with Reviverider in that after a while your muscle memory and strength adjust to the
riding position on the Revive and thus you become more efficient but the aerodynamics still leave a
lot to be desired. However one needs to give up something to gain something and I'll admit that the
geometry on my Revive is truely comfortable and a complete bliss;-)

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

"BentHeadSWB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DR, Shimano is coming out with an 8-speed hub that has a range of 303%.

The

Quoted message said:

stock one is something like 247% so you can have an extra low gear. If you really, really want to
go for it, a Rohloff 14-speed rear hub

has a

Quoted message said:

range of 525%. Should run a cool grand to get one built up but it would

be

Quoted message said:

great!

John H N TX

David,

Quoted message said:

But as the season continued, I noticed that my muscle set became stronger to the point where the
hills weren't a problem. As I trained, the legs became used to the Revive's geometry and I learned
how to push efficiently against the back rest for additional torque. Conditioning plays a role in
the Revive's hill climbing ability as well as gear sets and the overall weight of the bike.

That's great! Remember me mentioning that you would get stronger? I think that spinning classes and
a specialized weight training program would improve performance a lot more. Two months of this would
"supercharge" the 'ol engine for sure;-)

Quoted message said:

Those are just my thoughts. I think the Revive has the capability to be an really nice touring
bike with additional gears and larger rear wheel.

Well I don't think we'll see a "big wheel" Revive but they do sell a 21 speed Dual Drive version in
Europe and some of us are speculating wether or not Giant will introduce it here. In my humble
opinion, that model needs to be sold here as well. Most Americans seem to gravitate towards bikes
with lots of gears and after all, we DO HAVE hills AND mountains!

Quoted message said:

In fact, I think a bigger problem is the high drag one suffers due to the Revive's upright riding
position! Seriously, on a two-day tour last month the Ozark hills were not nearly as bad as the
Kansas wind blowing against my chest! I felt like a parachute!

I too have encountered headwinds and I find that I can simply hunch forward with my head almost
above the handlebar and that cuts down on the wind resistance quite a bit. This also "closes" the
hip angle and increases torque a little as well. Still many a times I just prefer to gear down and
ride comfortably in the natural geometry of the bike.

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

I just rec'd a call from my LBG re the delivery of my 21 speed Revive. It's been delayed one week. I
should have had it in two days, but it will arrive instead in nine days. I will be in Utrecht that
day for a Bike Motion bike fair. My wife and I are planning to spend a week or so in Paris with our
mobile home (we call them caravans here) starting that weekend and I will probably bring that new
bike along.

Hi Edward,

First of all, let me thank you for your very informative and detailed posts regarding Giant Revive.
I saw one recently at a bike shop near me (Mountain View, CA), had a test drive, and got hooked on
it immediately 🙂

I have a Bianchi road bike that I just don't feel like riding a lot lately, because most of the time
I just want to cruise around, not race or anything. So, I fugure that a bike like Giant Revive would
be IDEAL to this purpose, and could actually induce me to spend more time riding.

So, after looking at Revive at the shop, I hurried back home and started browsing the hell out
of the Internet for Revive reviews, model info, etc 🙂 I also called Giant USA a couple of
times, as well.

As a result, this is what I'm thinking, so far:

The best choice, by far, would be DualDrive model. Revive IS THE ULTIMATE COMFORT BIKE, after all,
so why would I want to cringe and sweat every time going uphill? Unfortunately, I confirmed with
Giant USA about a week ago that DualDrive model WILL NOT be offered in USA anytime soon (arrrgh! -
why do marketing people ALLWAYS have to screw it up? 🙂)

Since Revive DD is not available, and ordering one from France or UK does not seems like a
practical choice (but please, let me know if you think otherwise), I guess I'm just gonna have to
build my own 🙂

I am thinking about starting with basic Revive ($599), and equipping it with the following:

1. 8-speed DualDrive (about $220 in my area, plus labor), 9-speed DualDrives are also available for
about $60 more, but I do not think I need it, plus in this case I would have to replace chain,
crank, etc.
- why bother?

2. PanTour front hub - 12mm suspension travel. (about $150 + labor). Now, I do not know how much
it's needed, since most of the weight in distributed to the rear, but whatta heck - it's MY toy,
after all! 🙂

3. High-pressure tires instead of the "slime-filled" variety 🙂 Since I'm gonna have double
suspension on this baby, these tires would not degrade ride quality but will increase performance
somewhat. Any opinions on tire makes/models?

4. Accessories - rear bag (preferably Giant's own design - I am not planning on holding tons of
stuff in it, anyway), and front light. A question about front light, though - European models are
shown with very cool looking front light that mounts at the base of the "stem" (it's not quite a
"stem" in the traditional sense, is it?) - anyone knows where / how I could obtain one in US?

There is an extremely well regarded bicycle shop in San Francisco (Gaerlan - www.gaerlan.com), and I
am planning to contact them regarding this project. They seem to have DualDrives and PanTour hubs in
stock at prices I've specified.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Wesley

"Edward Wong" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David,

Quoted message said:

But as the season continued, I noticed that my muscle set became stronger to the point where
the hills weren't a problem. As I trained, the legs became used to the Revive's geometry and I
learned how to push efficiently against the back rest for additional torque. Conditioning
plays a role in the Revive's hill climbing ability as well as gear sets and the overall weight
of the bike.

That's great! Remember me mentioning that you would get stronger? I think that spinning classes
and a specialized weight training program would improve performance a lot more. Two months of this
would "supercharge" the 'ol engine for sure;-)

Quoted message said:

Those are just my thoughts. I think the Revive has the capability to be an really nice touring
bike with additional gears and larger rear wheel.

Well I don't think we'll see a "big wheel" Revive but they do sell a 21 speed Dual Drive version
in Europe and some of us are speculating wether or not Giant will introduce it here. In my humble
opinion, that model needs to be sold here as well. Most Americans seem to gravitate towards bikes
with lots of gears and after all, we DO HAVE hills AND mountains!

Quoted message said:

In fact, I think a bigger problem is the high drag one suffers due to the Revive's upright
riding position! Seriously, on a two-day tour last month the Ozark hills were not nearly as bad
as the Kansas wind blowing against my chest! I felt like a parachute!

I too have encountered headwinds and I find that I can simply hunch forward with my head almost
above the handlebar and that cuts down on the wind resistance quite a bit. This also "closes" the
hip angle and increases torque a little as well. Still many a times I just prefer to gear down and
ride comfortably in the natural geometry of the bike.

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

Hi Wesley!

I enjoy talking about the Revive as you have noticed. I think Giant has really found itself a
good niche in the comfort bike market with a great product so I am not surprised that you got
"hooked" on it;-)

It's unfortunate that Giant is not making the DD available here soon. Funny thing is that Europeans
generally ride bikes with low multi gear counts (3-9 speeds) and Americans like bikes with lots of
gears (21+ speeds) so I don't know the reason for this approach. I am an exception as I kind of like
bikes with with low gear count. My Scooterbike (German design) came with a Mega Range 7 speed and of
course my Revive has "only" 8 speeds and that's plenty for me but if I lived in the Rockies, well...

If you succeed in customizing your bike with those specifications then you would truly have a very
special Revive that would indeed be the Ultimate Comfort Bike. Maybe when you're done, you should
send some email pictures to Giant USA to show them "how it's done".

Two comments on your selected components/accessories. The lighting on the Euro/Asian Revive is a
dynamo powered system. Peter White Cycles (peterwhitecycles.comlightingsystems.htmOpen ↗)
sells a high quality "bottle" dynamo system and you can purchase a special mount for the headlight
that mounts over the fork. Maybe Gaerlan has a similiar product. As for tires Tioga Comp Pools are
known for their low rolling resistance, good traction and durability. Kenda Kwest HPs are also a
good choice.

Have fun with your project, I'm certain you'll wind up with a bike you're going to enjoy for
many miles.

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

"Wesley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Edward,

First of all, let me thank you for your very informative and detailed posts regarding Giant
Revive. I saw one recently at a bike shop near me (Mountain View, CA), had a test drive, and got
hooked on it immediately 🙂

I have a Bianchi road bike that I just don't feel like riding a lot lately, because most of the
time I just want to cruise around, not race or anything. So, I fugure that a bike like Giant
Revive would be IDEAL to this purpose, and could actually induce me to spend more time riding.

So, after looking at Revive at the shop, I hurried back home and started browsing the hell out
of the Internet for Revive reviews, model info, etc 🙂 I also called Giant USA a couple of
times, as well.

As a result, this is what I'm thinking, so far:

The best choice, by far, would be DualDrive model. Revive IS THE ULTIMATE COMFORT BIKE, after all,
so why would I want to cringe and sweat every time going uphill? Unfortunately, I confirmed with
Giant USA about a week ago that DualDrive model WILL NOT be offered in USA anytime soon (arrrgh! -
why do marketing people ALLWAYS have to screw it up? 🙂)

Since Revive DD is not available, and ordering one from France or UK does not seems like a
practical choice (but please, let me know if you think otherwise), I guess I'm just gonna have to
build my own 🙂

I am thinking about starting with basic Revive ($599), and equipping it with the following:

1. 8-speed DualDrive (about $220 in my area, plus labor), 9-speed DualDrives are also available
for about $60 more, but I do not think I need it, plus in this case I would have to replace
chain, crank, etc.
- why bother?

2. PanTour front hub - 12mm suspension travel. (about $150 + labor). Now, I do not know how much
it's needed, since most of the weight in distributed to the rear, but whatta heck - it's MY
toy, after all! 🙂

3. High-pressure tires instead of the "slime-filled" variety 🙂 Since I'm gonna have double
suspension on this baby, these tires would not degrade ride quality but will increase
performance somewhat. Any opinions on tire makes/models?

4. Accessories - rear bag (preferably Giant's own design - I am not planning on holding tons of
stuff in it, anyway), and front light. A question about front light, though - European models
are shown with very cool looking front light that mounts at the base of the "stem" (it's not
quite a "stem" in the traditional sense, is it?) - anyone knows where / how I could obtain one
in US?

There is an extremely well regarded bicycle shop in San Francisco (Gaerlan - www.gaerlan.com), and
I am planning to contact them regarding this project. They seem to have DualDrives and PanTour
hubs in stock at prices I've specified.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Wesley

"Edward Wong" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

David,

Quoted message said:

But as the season continued, I noticed that my muscle set became stronger to the point where
the hills weren't a problem. As I trained, the legs became used to the Revive's geometry and I
learned how to

push

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

efficiently against the back rest for additional torque. Conditioning plays a role in the
Revive's hill climbing ability as well as gear

sets

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and the overall weight of the bike.

That's great! Remember me mentioning that you would get stronger? I

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that spinning classes and a specialized weight training program would improve performance a lot
more. Two months of this would "supercharge"

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

'ol engine for sure;-)

Quoted message said:

Those are just my thoughts. I think the Revive has the capability to

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an really nice touring bike with additional gears and larger rear

wheel.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well I don't think we'll see a "big wheel" Revive but they do sell a 21 speed Dual Drive version
in Europe and some of us are speculating wether

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not Giant will introduce it here. In my humble opinion, that model

needs to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be sold here as well. Most Americans seem to gravitate towards bikes

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lots of gears and after all, we DO HAVE hills AND mountains!

Quoted message said:

In fact, I think a bigger problem is the high drag one suffers due to the Revive's upright
riding position! Seriously, on a two-day tour

last

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

month the Ozark hills were not nearly as bad as the Kansas wind

blowing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

against my chest! I felt like a parachute!

I too have encountered headwinds and I find that I can simply hunch

forward

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with my head almost above the handlebar and that cuts down on the wind resistance quite a bit.
This also "closes" the hip angle and increases torque a little as well. Still many a times I
just prefer to gear down

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ride comfortably in the natural geometry of the bike.

Edward Wong Orlando, FL

Hi DH,

A quick question:

I live in Mountain View, CA, USA. I posted to this thread a few hours ago about customizing
US-spec'd Giant Revive to accomodate DualDrive, among other things. But, as an option, I'd really
like to explore the possibility of getting Revive DD from Europe. Since you live there, can you
perhaps point me to a bicycle shop near you where they speak English (I don't speak neither German,
nor French, only English & Russian - sorry 🙂, and would be able to ship this bike to USA? If you
can provide me with a phone number of such shop, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks,

Wesley

"DH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I just rec'd a call from my LBG re the delivery of my 21 speed Revive. It's been delayed one week.
I should have had it in two days, but it will arrive instead in nine days. I will be in Utrecht
that day for a Bike Motion bike fair. My wife and I are planning to spend a week or so in Paris
with our mobile home (we call them caravans here) starting that weekend and I will probably bring
that new bike along.

Wesley, I've ordered my bike from my LBG who is not a Giant dealer. He can still order from
them however.

As to ordering from Holland, the price from _any_ dealer will be the list price for the DD (21
speed) ... 849 Euros or about $900 to begin with.

I will pass on the information, but the easiest way to accomplish all of this is to have a friend
who is coming over here take one back on the plane. Order one ahead of time and have him pick it up.
I always see people traveling with their bikes at the airport.

For starters, I'd call a Giant bike dealer in Amsterdam because they might have more experience with
shipping simply because they're closer to Schipol. Here's a link to the Amsterdam dealers in
Amsterdam. Be sure to highlight the entire link ...

giant-bicycle.com040.000.000.aspOpen ↗
amsterdam&sZipCode=

The country code here is 31 and you would leave out the 0 that appears as the first number in our
local 10 digit phone number. I don't know how to dial out of the US, but here we dial 00 and then
the country code. Remember we're 9 hours later than the US West coast for much of the year. For two
weeks or so that changes because we go on daylight saving at a different time.

If I can be of any more help just yell. I would start by sending a few dealers an e-mail and ask
them for the costs. If it's a real hassle they might not be interested. I really would have a friend
bring one back ... least amount of hassle and best price. You would just need the dealer to prep the
bike for the plane, right? Good luck, Dave Horne davehorne at home dot nl