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Re: "Social rider" beef

Started by Mike Jacoubowsky · · Last activity · 4 posts · 377 views

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Road Cycling
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30 May 2005
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Mike Jacoubowsky
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  1. Quoted message said:

    Yesterday I did about my bazillionth century ride. I'm 49 years old and
    I've done lots of centuries in my day.

    My local club put on this ride ... against my protestations because they
    scheduled it head-to-head with a very well-established century that's been
    going on not too many miles away. I thought it was rather rude to do
    that.

    The guy who volunteered to put on the ride...

    Whoa, hold it right there. An "organized" century that you only identify one
    person who's putting it on?

    Quoted message said:

    Well, I should qualify that. He got the fast riders lost. He personally
    rode out in front of the slow groups and stood at each turn to make sure
    those riders didn't miss anything. But I was in the front group and we'd
    blown by and missed his ridiculously inadequate markings long before he
    got out to try to direct traffic.

    Was this actually a legit century, or just an opportunity for people to do a
    100 mile club ride?

    Quoted message said:

    So then he says, "if you'd asked at the rest stops, they'd have told you
    which way to go." So then I explained, "I don't stop at rest stops except
    maybe once in a 100 mile ride. Our entire lead group only made one stop.
    And, how do we stop at a rest stop if we're already off the course after
    12 miles?" Again, I got the, "if you weren't racing you'd have been able
    to see the marks."

    I'm picturing self-serve rest stops, put up the night before... an
    interesting concept. Wonder if it's ever been done?

    I doubt there was any prior indication this was going to be a typical,
    well-run event, so I have to ask- why did you choose to ride it instead of
    the "very well-established" option "not too many miles away"?

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yesterday I did about my bazillionth century ride. I'm 49 years old and
    I've done lots of centuries in my day.

    My local club put on this ride ... against my protestations because they
    scheduled it head-to-head with a very well-established century that's been
    going on not too many miles away. I thought it was rather rude to do
    that.

    The guy who volunteered to put on the ride had never done it before and is
    a fairly new rider. I coached him over the months leading up to the event
    about the things I've seen that make the difference between a good event
    and a bad event. He didn't listen. In fact, he committed what I told him
    would be the CARDINAL SIN. He marked the course poorly and got the riders
    lost.

    Well, I should qualify that. He got the fast riders lost. He personally
    rode out in front of the slow groups and stood at each turn to make sure
    those riders didn't miss anything. But I was in the front group and we'd
    blown by and missed his ridiculously inadequate markings long before he
    got out to try to direct traffic.

    So I sent him an e-mail after the fact to ask him what happened. He gave
    me the classic line that sets me off every single time ... "it was
    supposed to be a social ride, not a race ... the social riders didn't have
    any trouble."

    MAN that burns me up. Since when is there a speed limit on a road ride?
    We rode the first 20 miles with 25 guys at an average speed of 25 mph. It
    was no big deal. The road was flat. There was a slight tailwind. It was
    nothing. But he says he designed things with folks like him in mind ...
    folks who ride 15 mph. Well, this guys is about 6' 3" tall and is
    morbidly obese (at least by my definition)!

    So then he says, "if you'd asked at the rest stops, they'd have told you
    which way to go." So then I explained, "I don't stop at rest stops except
    maybe once in a 100 mile ride. Our entire lead group only made one stop.
    And, how do we stop at a rest stop if we're already off the course after
    12 miles?" Again, I got the, "if you weren't racing you'd have been able
    to see the marks."

    That's such [censored]. I'm so sick of "social" riders who act like you're
    doing something wrong just 'cuz you can, or you just like to, ride faster
    than they do. I never hear the fast riders complain about the "social"
    riders. But the "social" riders always feel compelled to tell the fast
    riders how they should ride.

    All you "social" riders reading this, please note the following:

    Quoted message said:

    Riding fast is not a sin. Riding fast does not mean racing. Riding
    fast is entirely relative. If there's a speed limit on a ride, post it
    ... otherwise, you ride the speed you want to and I'll ride the speed I
    want to. For me, the joy of riding an event like that is finding a good,
    fast paceline and then flying along in close formation. It's a special
    feeling that's probably the closest I'll ever come to flying with the
    Blue Angels.

    Quoted message said:

    Don't tell me why I should be riding. I always hear, "riding is
    supposed to be social." What makes you think the guys at the front don't
    socialize? Just 'cuz you can't imagine talking while riding at our pace,
    that doesn't mean we don't. And we're back in the parking lot hanging
    out and having a good time for a couple hours before y'all show up. AND,
    you can't imagine the bond that can form when a small group of complete
    strangers gets together on the road and forms a tight working group to
    bang out a good time for the ride. I've made many lasting friendships in
    that fellowship of effort.

    Quoted message said:

    Many of you have spouses that ride. Mine doesn't. I like to get my
    rides done and get back to do things with her.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, my life circumstances aren't the same as yours. I have a farm and
    all the chores I need to stay busy. I don't have all day to waste
    socializing on the road. If you do, that's fine. I don't. And that's
    fine, too.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't need to eat all the [censored] at all the rest stops to feel like I
    got my moneys worth on a ride. It's evident by appearances that many of
    you do. That's fine. I have peanut butter and cookies and bananas at
    home. Give me a way to fill my bottles at 80 miles and I'm good for the
    whole ride. But that's just me. But PLEASE ... recognize when the lead
    riders might reach those remote rest stops and have them up and manned
    when we arrive.

    Quoted message said:

    If you're gonna take responsibility to plan a century ride. Please
    recognize that your way of riding is not the only valid way of riding and
    that riding fast is not a sin. If you're gonna advertise a marked
    course, make sure it's well marked with large, clear markings placed well
    in advance of the turns/events they're marking.

    End of rant.

    --
    Bob C.

    "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

  2. "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I doubt there was any prior indication this was going to be a typical,
    well-run event, so I have to ask- why did you choose to ride it instead of
    the "very well-established" option "not too many miles away"?

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    Mike,

    This event began 2 years ago with another guy running it ... an experienced
    guy. It was on a different weekend. I did the ride and all was well. Oh,
    this is "my local club." Mind you, I live in a very remote rural area. I'm
    25 miles from the town where this club is based, but they were doing this
    century out of a town only 12 miles away. Again, I live in a remote area.
    I don't get that many opportunities to do a century where I don't have to
    pack and drive a couple of hours.

    Last year, the original organizer moved it to the weekend in conflict with
    the "well established" event. As a bit of a statement of protest, I did the
    well established event and skipped the local affair.

    This year I decided to ride the local event again just 'cuz the terrain in
    this area is more to my liking (rolling terrain vs. the other one that's
    mostly flat) and I could roll out of bed and go ride. The other ride
    started 50 miles away. I knew it was a new guy trying to run the event. I
    traded a number of e-mails with him leading up to the event. I volunteered
    to design the course ... at least the part of it that was on familiar
    training roads I always use. I offered to do the course marking. I offered
    all kinds of help. ESPECIALLY, I shared experiences with this guy about
    poor course marking and I told him what kind or riders he'd get and how to
    take care of them.

    This guy blew it all off. He tried to organize street dances and pool
    parties and all this other non-ride nonsense thinking people would come for
    that. He short-changed the ride. People got back to their cars [censored]
    and they went home. All his other events were a complete bust.

    It is a shame. The guy truly did put some effort into it. That can't be
    argued. But I guess he felt like he knew better than the experienced riders
    who were telling him what he needed to be working on.

    Rule #1 ... don't get your riders lost. They can't show up for your
    after-parties.

    --
    Bob C.

    "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

  3. On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:24:25 -0400, "psycholist" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    This guy blew it all off. He tried to organize street dances and pool
    parties and all this other non-ride nonsense thinking people would come for
    that. He short-changed the ride. People got back to their cars [censored]
    and they went home. All his other events were a complete bust.

    It is a shame. The guy truly did put some effort into it. That can't be
    argued. But I guess he felt like he knew better than the experienced riders
    who were telling him what he needed to be working on.

    Rule #1 ... don't get your riders lost. They can't show up for your
    after-parties.

    --
    Bob C.

    Hope you were still able to enjoy the ride - it does seem like you got a
    bit of a thrill from helping the group find their way. Silver lining and
    all that, eh? ;-)

    Though some here might offer put-downs for 'jerk'-itude, or whining, geeze,
    a guy should be able to come on group and vent a little and blow off some
    steam.

    Anyway, interesting story, and even fun to read about. Sounds like you even
    gained some insights, and now can add this to the 'lessons learned' file.
    Maybe next year you can finesse your way into certain aspects of the
    planning committee and get the route marked correctly.

    Would you say that -if- the route had been marked well, that overall, the
    guy had potentially a pretty good event planned?

    Though he pushed your buttons with the remarks about 'social ride', he
    probably didn't mean to. Perhaps it was just clumsiness, or defensiveness
    on his part. Hope things work out better for you next ride.

    jj

  4. psycholist wrote:

    <<This guy blew it all off. He tried to organize street dances and
    pool
    parties and all this other non-ride nonsense thinking people would come
    for
    that. He short-changed the ride. People got back to their cars [censored]
    and they went home. All his other events were a complete bust.

    It is a shame. The guy truly did put some effort into it. That can't
    be
    argued. But I guess he felt like he knew better than the experienced
    riders
    who were telling him what he needed to be working on.

    Rule #1 ... don't get your riders lost. >>

    It sounds like he massively underestimated the amount of work a really
    first class ride is.

    I agree with you that a good route marked well is rule #1 -- that's why
    route marking is what I do on our club ride.

    [Other people think food at the rest stops is the most important. Fine.
    They do that. Everybody's happy.]

    But the real test is what you do now that you have ranted. Running an
    organized century well can really be a good, galvanizing club activity
    that draws people together. Having a ride with a poor reputation can
    probably sink a club, although I've been lucky enough not to know that
    first-hand. What are you able / willing to do about this situation in
    the next year? Can you find some other potential leader to rally
    around, thank this guy for his efforts, and make him head of the kids
    face-painting subcommittee or something.

    If the event was really the fiasco you indicated, he probably feels
    disappointed and depressed, and your ragging on him (however justified)
    probably isn't helping. Or maybe he's one of these guys who always
    thinks things are roaring successes, even if they look to everybody
    else like failures. I can't tell from here.

    Upon reflection, you might think about whether you really want to
    participate in some sort of war of insult between fast and slow riders
    or whether you want to tone this down before everyone gets too bent
    out of shape.

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