Re: Mishnah = Commandment , so break it ???

Yes

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Quoted message said:

Newsgroups: alt.messianic
From: cockroach <[email hidden]>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:55:41 GMT
Local: Wed, Jan 26 2005 3:55 pm
Subject: Re: gospel vs antisemitism

cockroach said:

[email hidden] wrote in news:1106777622.148378.49340
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

Jan Pompe wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
> > Joe Slater wrote:

Mishnah is not merely a point of discussion.

Mishnah is a statement of fact in Oral Law allegedly given by God

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sinai:

no.

i think you have proven you ignorance on the subject and why nobody
should take you seriously.

mishna is the teaching

**********************************

Talmud itself says that the Mishnah found in Talmud is "the
Commandment which I [God] have written".

Here are 3 Jewish sources which confirm what is said in Berachot 5a of
Talmud:

----------------begin quote--------------

Moses received the Torah from Sinai, which means he received both the
Written Law and the Oral Law...

The Talmud (Berachos 5a) expounds the verse, "And I shall give you the
Tablets of Stone, and the Law, and the Commandment which I have
written, to teach them "(Exodus 24:12), as follows:
"Tablets of Stone" refers to the 10 Commandments;
"the Law" means the Pentateach (see Rashi ad loc);
"Commandment" is the Mishnah;
"which I have written" denotes the Prophets and the Hagiographa;
and "to teach them" means the Gemara.
The verse teaches us that every facet of Torah was given to Moses on
Mount Sinai.

- quoted from pages 17-18 of "Gateway to the Talmud", by Rabbi Meir Zvi
Bergman, dean of Yeshiva Rashbi in Bnei Brak, published by Mesorah
Publications in 1985

----------------begin quote--------------

Conservative Judaism: Our Ancestors to Our Descendants

By Elliott N Dorff

Extracts posted with permission of

United Synagogue of America Youth Commission

...

JEWISH LAW WITHIN THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT

...

What is the meaning of the verse, "And I will give thee the tablets of
stone, and the law and the commandment, which I have written, that thou
mayest teach them"? (Ex. 24:12).
"Tablets of stone," i.e., the Decalogue;
"law," i.e., the Pentateuch;
"commandment," i.e., the Mishnah;
"which I have written," i.e., the Prophets and Hagiographa [Writings =
ketuvim];
"that thou mayest teach them" i.e., the Gemara.
The verse teaches that all of them were given to Moses on Sinai.
(Berachot 5a)

- quoted from
http://www.adath-shalom.ca/dorff59.htm

----------------begin quote--------------

ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS

prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

Berachos 5

...

(b) "Luchos" - the Ten Commandments;
"Torah" - the written Torah;
"Mitzvah" - Mishnah;
"Asher Kasavti" - Nevi'im and Kesuvim;
"Lehorosam" - Gemara.
This comes to teach us that all these were given to Moshe at Har Sinai

- summary of Berachot 5a of Talmud quoted from Shema Yisrael at
http://www.dafyomi.co.il/berachos/reviewa/br-ra-05.htm

----------------begin quote--------------

Transmitting Tora to One and All

R. Yaakov Bieler
Parshat Toldot, 5765

...

Reish Lakish in Berachot 5a understands that what was given to Moshe on
Sinai was much more than the Ten Commandments.

And HaShem said to Moshe: Come up to Me to the mountain and be there,
and I will Give to you the tablets of stone, the Tora and the Mitzva
that I have Written to teach them (the Jewish people).

Said R. Shimon ben Lakish:
"The tablets" - these are the Ten Commandments;
"The Tora" - this is the written tradition (the five books of Moshe);

"The Mitzva" - this is the Mishna;
"That I have Written" - these are the books of the prophets and the
writings (NaCh);
"To teach them" - this is the Talmud;
All of this is to teach that all of this material was given to Moshe on
Sinai.

- quoted from Kemp Mill Orthodox Synagogue at
http://www.kmsynagogue.org/Toldot1.html

--------end quote---------

Quoted message said:

gemara is the discussion on the teaching

the teaching may or may not be halacha

the discussions may or may not reach a decision on halacha

the halacha is the only part that is legally binding.

************

Barachot 5a of Talmud says that the Mishnah is the "Commandment"
written by God, the "Mitzvah" written by God.

Since when is the Commandment of God not binding in Mosaic Law?

**************

Quoted message said:

anything else is just decision and may or may not constitute jewish
believe

*************

Since when is "Jewish belief" supposed to contradict the "Commandment"
written by God?

*************

Quoted message said:

which is a problem you keep haveing when you say "so and so is
contridicting the rabbis in such and such part of the talmud by

saying

Quoted message said:

whatever."

unless it is halacha any jew can disagree with anything in the mishna

***********

Since when is a person under Mosaic Law allowed to "disagree" with the
"Commandment" wriiten by God?

***********

Quoted message said:

or gemara.

doing the summer you were quoting the talmud about something and i

asked

Quoted message said:

if it was halacha. you said you didnt know. well there is a way to

know.

Quoted message said:

when you learn what that is you can speak with a little more

authority

Quoted message said:

you have been posting in this group for 6 years. if you had spend

that

Quoted message said:

same 6 years going to the daily talmud class that i am sure is

offered

Quoted message said:

by a synagogue in your area you would be almost through the talmud.

then people would listen when you talk about the talmud

*************

When Judaism says that "Mishnah" is the very "Commandment" written by
God himself at Sinai,
then Judaism says that the rabbis are allowed to nullify that
commandment by telling people that they must do something else instead,
I have an obligation to yell about that hypocrisy from the rooftops (or
on the Internet).

- moshe