Re: kulfi in an ice cream maker?

Quoted message said:

I have made ice cream as you describe. Doing the proper boiled-milk
approach is tedious and labour-intensive, but worth the effort. That's what
I did. Reduce it almost until it turns into milk-fudge. The proper
consistency in the pot should be the same as an au ruban egg-foam for
genoise cake, although of course no eggs are involved.

I'm not averse to making my own milk reduction after your description of
its advantages. besides, I too have done it in the past.

Quoted message said:

Sweetened condensed milk would be a *bad* idea because the name is a total
misnomer. What is called "sweetened condensed milk" would be better
described as "creamed sugar syrup" because it's in fact mostly sugar with a
token amount of milk thrown in.

I was afraid of that. Is this your theory or can it be verified with an
ingredients list somewhere?

Quoted message said:

Evaporated milk would be a better bet, but
it doesn't approach the level of reduction you get using classic technique.

Precisely the kind of feedback I sought.

However, you might try starting out with evaporated milk and reducing it

Quoted message said:

further. Another approach is to use non-instant milk powder and add just
enough water to achieve a good texture. This is best with whole milk powder
but it can also be done with non-fat provided that you add a little cream.

Does non instant milk powder need to be boiled? is that why it isn't
instant?

Quoted message said:

The big thing the classic method contributes is that all the stirring that
you do to reduce the milk causes the proteins to form in the proper
structure whereas industrial processes tend to leave milk reductions (such
as evaporated or powdered milk) with short protein chains. This has a
significant effect on the texture.

Very interesting, since the icy texture is my only criticism of real
Indian kulfi.

Quoted message said:

Don't use them and if you do the milk reduction they shouldn't be necessary
anyway. Eggs would add their own flavour...

Would that necessarily be a bad flavor though?

Quoted message said:

this really makes for a poor result. Good reduced milk will still yield
excellent texture owing to what I just described about protein formation.
However, I'd expect a product made with evaporated or powdered milk to be
considerably more icy.

Icy bad!

Quoted message said:

It's worth noting, although this doesn't apply what you're trying to do,
that custard made with a milk reduction base *does* benefit from it,
immensely. The texture is unbelievably hyper-silken and rich, and in fact
you can produce a warm stirred custard in this way that has the texture of
a pudding (as opposed to being more of a pourable object). Needless to say
it chills well and sets up readily. It also makes for an incredible base
for vanilla ice cream.

So, are you aiming to reduce milk to the quantity specified in a typical
custard recipe and then combine it with eggs, sugar, vanilla and
whatever else?

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't use eggs with the classic kulfi
flavourings but as a base for vanilla, nut, and chocolate ice creams a
reduced-milk custard is the best.

Point very well taken.

Thanks,
Orlando

at Fri, 20 May 2005 04:25:03 GMT in
<[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Orlando
Fiol) wrote :

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sweetened condensed milk would be a *bad* idea because the name is a
total misnomer. What is called "sweetened condensed milk" would be
better described as "creamed sugar syrup" because it's in fact mostly
sugar with a token amount of milk thrown in.

I was afraid of that. Is this your theory or can it be verified with an
ingredients list somewhere?

Straight off the "Nutrition Facts" on the label:

For 2 tbsp

Total Fat: 3g
Total Protein: 3g
Total Carb: 23g

Now, from the same label for whole milk:

For 1 cup
Total Fat: 8g
Total Protein: 8g
Total Carb: 11g

From a label for sugar:

For 1 tsp:
Total Carb: 4g
others 0

For the can, there are 10*2 tbsp total quantity: so this means fat=30g,
protein=30g carb=230g

Since the protein and fat come entirely from the milk, the total carbs from
the milk we could expect to be 11/8*30 = 41.25g. So the contribution from
sugar is 230-41.25 = 188.75g. In a cup, there are 48 tsp. So the number of
carbs in a cup of sugar is 192 - and therefore there's pretty close to a
*cup* of sugar in a 14-oz can of SCM. Meanwhile in a cup there are 16 tbsp,
so again assuming the Nutrition Facts label is accurate that there are 20
tbsp of product in the can (staying aware of the fact that these
conversions may not be strictly accurate since the can is sold by weight
and the Nutrition Facts info is being given by volume), close to 4/5 of the
contents of the can is sugar. Sobering.

Quoted message said:

However, you might try starting out with evaporated milk and reducing it

Quoted message said:

further. Another approach is to use non-instant milk powder and add
just enough water to achieve a good texture.

Does non instant milk powder need to be boiled? is that why it isn't
instant?

No, it doesn't need to be boiled. It's non-instant because it's in a powder
form and doesn't dissolve immediately in water. In fact, to reconstitute
the milk to normal amounts of water you have to make a paste first and then
add more water to thin because otherwise the powder will clump and you'll
never make it smooth. But for emulating reduced milk it's great because
there you're not wanting to add that much water in the first place.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't use them and if you do the milk reduction they shouldn't be
necessary anyway. Eggs would add their own flavour...

Would that necessarily be a bad flavor though?

IMHO yes. Eggs and rosewater clash badly. Eggs and cardamom are scarcely
better.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's worth noting, although this doesn't apply what you're trying to
do, that custard made with a milk reduction base *does* benefit from
it, immensely. The texture is unbelievably hyper-silken and rich, and
in fact you can produce a warm stirred custard in this way that has the
texture of a pudding (as opposed to being more of a pourable object).
Needless to say it chills well and sets up readily. It also makes for
an incredible base for vanilla ice cream.

So, are you aiming to reduce milk to the quantity specified in a typical
custard recipe and then combine it with eggs, sugar, vanilla and
whatever else?

No, you generally have to play around with the ratios of milk and eggs
because by reducing the milk you've changed the amount of water and this
will change the consistency, making it a good deal thicker. This might not
be a good thing, if, for instance, you were hoping for a sauce and instead
got something closer to a pudding in thickness. So you generally need to
find egg/milk ratios that work for the thickness you're looking to achieve.

--
Alex Rast
[email hidden]
(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)