General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Re: Gallbladder surgery

Started by Email address hidden · · Last activity · 1 post · 272 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
7 March 2004
Last activity
7 March 2004
Original author
Email address hidden
Posts
1
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
272
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–1 of 1
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Orac <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] (toby jones) wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Do you understand that for many who go in search of alternative
    > solutions, safety is far and away the more serious concern?

    Two problems with such a statement: First, not all alt-med therapies
    are actually "safe."

    I did not mean to suggest that they were. However, compared with
    risks associated with surgery, for example, including the possibility
    of unnecessary surgery and consequences from that, many alt approaches
    involve rather less risk.

    Most of them also involve considerably less efficacy as well.

    Quoted message said:

    And many are considered preventative rather than cures. This means
    that someone may wish to try the "stone flush" or whatever, not as a
    cure for a disease but as part of a general health-improvement
    program.

    Of course, the beauty of that, as far as alties are concerned, is that
    if they stay healthy they can claim it was their "preventatives" that
    did it, whether there is actually any objective evidence that the
    "preventative" actually prevents any disease!

    Your concern appears to be with "people making false claims" rather
    than with the therapy or treatment that resulted in people making
    those claims.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Second, taking something that is "safe" but ineffective
    is no better than taking nothing at all and letting the disease run
    its course.

    That sounds self-evident, but it is not that simple.
    (And wasn't there are a recent study showing noticable _placebo_
    effects?)

    Placebo effects usually do not involve objective improvements in
    clinical condition (tumor regression, for instance, or regression of
    atherosclerotic plaques in blood vessels). They involve the patient
    feeling better, whether his disease process is actually affected or not.
    That may not always be a bad thing, but don't confuse placebo effect
    with true efficacy.

    In the recent study on placebo for pain, the effects included physical
    changes in the brain and neurological pathways. (iiuic)

    There may be greater potential for physical healing, from within
    the mind, than has yet been considered. For some people, the main
    questions surrounding any health treatment, whether alt or standard
    med, concern the extent that it may facilitate or impede the
    mind-and-body's ability to heal itself. And so, safety, side effects,
    etc, are a main concern.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    People trying out alt therapies usually try several, whether
    sequentially or at the same time.
    And in many cases they _are_ happy with the overall results; they
    find that "something" worked, for them. They find various health
    improvements.

    Or, more commonly, they think they find various health improvements.

    You base this on..?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Also, our understanding of what may have an effect in regard to
    health, changes over time. In accordance with that, adjustments are
    made, such as, for example, the fortification of breakfast cereals
    with vitamins.

    Which is more of a marketing gimmick for cereal companies more than
    anything else.

    Folate?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > And that for some of them, this is because of having had
    > unfortunate exeriences from within the medical system.

    That is unfortunate for them. However, such bad experiences do not
    mean we should not challenge them when they make unsupported


    assertions about how great they think various alt-med therapies are.

    Most certainly, - question, and find out what was really happening, if
    someone is making outrageous claims of "success" with something that
    should have had no effect.

    That is really all I do. However, some alties react rather violently
    even to relatively mild skepticism.

    There seem to be reactive and reactionary elements on mha.
    It may be that one extreme begets the other. And, the lines are not
    always clear cut: they appear to vary according to the sphere of
    discussion.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Unfortunate
    experiences within the conventional medical system do not give them a
    free pass when they spout pseudoscientific nonsense.

    The one does not follow automatically from the other.

    I never said it did. However, on this newsgroup, it does often enough.

    Conversely, someone's belief that something is "nonsense" should not
    be a deterrrent to serious discussion of that matter, if it falls within
    "alt health".

    --
    -------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
    Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.