Re: Dogma?? [was Folk Transportation ]

Frank Krygowski replied (in part) to Tom Keats:

<< Personally, I have no problem with judicious sidewalk use - but only under
very unusual circumstances. There's one short section of sidewalk I ride
almost every day I commute by bike. The pedestrian count averages far less
than one, and it saves me a potholed stretch of road, a sometimes difficult
stop sign and a long traffic light.>>

<<I have no problem with judicious use of shortcuts, either. My route to work
also features a cut through a parking lot which is marked "No Through Traffic,"
so I've got plenty of opportunity to feel guilty. But it's very much more
convenient than the "legal" alternative, and certainly no danger to anyone.>>

It seems that almost all those who call themselves vehicular cyclists use the
system when it is convenient for them and discard it when it is not. That's
just the way the world works. But with the constant verbal assault against
sidewalk riding, short-cutting, "improvisational cycling," et cetera, it all
strikes me as hypocritical and paternalistic: there is a sense that these
things are ok when you do them but when others do it they are being stupid.

<< Having confessed those "sins," though, I firmly believe that both sidewalks
and parking lots are _much_ more dangerous than roads, on average. I'd never
consider making a habit of either... >>

I think that, since you do it almost every day, you have made a habit of it.

Welcome to the real world.

Robert

frkrygow' 'frkrygow said:

Forester's _Effective Cycling_ is highly political. It's more a
manifesto than a great textbook. I think its main value is in laying
out the logic for vehicular cycling, and providing information to
explain why it's best.

I agree with this 100%. This is my main criticism of EC. There's some great
work there, but a lot of [censored] too. Unfortunately, it's the most well known
"authority" on the subject, and people dismiss the whole thing when they see the
garbage.

Quoted message said:

The details on how to do it are better
explained
in _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin, I think. Or _Urban Biker's Tricks &
Tips_ by Dave Glowacz (if you ignore the foolish, illegal stuff.)
Best condensed source is _Street Smarts_ by John Allen.

_EC_ would have profited from some strong editing, I think. But
Forester probably wouldn't allow that!

I don't know much about the man, but that's my impression of the book too. I've
seen the others, but not Franklin -- I'll have to check that one out.

It would be great if someone with unassailable credibility would do a new
EC-type book. Good ideas may live forever, but the public needs a new guru
every 30 years or so.

Matt O.

R15757 said:

It seems that almost all those who call themselves vehicular cyclists use the
system when it is convenient for them and discard it when it is not. That's
just the way the world works. But with the constant verbal assault against
sidewalk riding, short-cutting, "improvisational cycling," et cetera, it all
strikes me as hypocritical and paternalistic: there is a sense that these
things are ok when you do them but when others do it they are being stupid.

The criteria aren't as you describe them.

In rare circumstances, riding on a sidewalk can be perfectly safe. It
can also be fatally stupid, or it can be somewhere in between.

Riding on a short deserted section of sidewalk that has no intersections
with streets or driveways and connects two dead-end stubs of streets
(which is what I do) is, as far as I can tell, completely benign.
Riding at over 12 mph, facing traffic, zig-zagging past pedestrians, and
passing blind driveway exits (which I've seen done) is stupid.

Similar situations exist for other traffic rules. Very unusual
exceptions may exist, but the default prodedure should be to just obey
the rules. IMO, if you're violating rules of the road in any but VERY
unusual situations, you're riding stupid. That would include things
like routinely running red lights, for example.

Quoted message said:

<< Having confessed those "sins," though, I firmly believe that both sidewalks
and parking lots are _much_ more dangerous than roads, on average. I'd never
consider making a habit of either... >>

I think that, since you do it almost every day, you have made a habit of it.

Touche. I do make a habit of cutting through that _one_ parking lot.
However, it is a very unusual situation. And it violates no law - just
a parking lot rule posted by the owner, intended for autos. Details on
request - although I imagine this sub-thread will go nowhere useful.

Again, sidewalks and parking lots are much more dangerous than roads, on
average. Rare exceptions don't change that.

--
-------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

Tom Keats said:

Today I rode on the sidewalk a little bit. A few years ago, I wouldn't
have even considered it, because that just wasn't "Vehicular" -- I was
perhaps dogmatic about it. I was shortcutting through the cemetery to the

One thing I appreciated in EC (the book) was the explanation of *why*
certain behaviors were safer/more dangerous than others. I myself once
got hit (well, pushed is more like it) by a car while riding wrong-way
on the sidewalk[*]. I knew this was against the rules, but nobody had
told me why, so I wasn't making a big deal out of it.

Once you know the consequences of e.g. riding on the sidewalk, then you
can make an informed decision as to whether or not it is acceptable in a
particular situation, instead of blindly relying on what the law or
Forester or everybody else says in general.

Quoted message said:

And I *do* feel some guilt for my little taste of sidewalk riding.
I guess dogma is biting my ass. Same as when I've bypassed clots

Well, yeah, I guess I'm guilty of that too.

Quoted message said:

best I could do is buy Forester's book. The practical stuff wasn't
really anything new to me. But y'know what? That's a pretty political
book. And properly so, because it starts the ball of cycling issues
rolling. But like Jefferey Hiles, I don't take it as the Last Word.
That would be dogmatic.

I'm always a bit reluctant to recommend EC to cyclists, mostly because
of Forester's, umm, tone. It's a great book (changed many of my views
on cycling), but you do need to take it with a big grain of salt. (And
I'm not only talking about the political stuff.)

[*] There were extenuating circumstances. Or at least, that's what I
like to say when I don't want to admit I was merely stupid.

--
Frederic Briere <*> [email hidden]

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