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Re: Do you have to cheat?

Started by Simon Brooke · · Last activity · 4 posts · 471 views

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Published
25 July 2007
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Simon Brooke
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  1. in message <[email hidden]>, archierob

    (') said:

    It is a passion - perhaps the one enduring passion of my life, I love
    my bike, I love cycling - but should I love it? It has become a game
    of cheats and chemists - my chemist is more gifted than yours, the
    latest revelations in a tour that was supposed to restore all our
    faith in its honesty is increasingly seemingly more fraudulent by the
    day. Should I give up? Can this sport ever be honest, indeed can any
    'sport'?

    OK, this is a question on many levels.

    Firstly Vino. Vino is a flawed hero. But, watching him tearing apart the
    team he was supposed to be riding for in 2005, we knew he was flawed.
    Brilliant, mercurial, egocentric, courageous, manic, charismatic, foolish.
    A man driven by complex drives; a big man in a sense which has nothing to
    do with physical size. I wrote two days ago that I wouldn't be surprised
    if Vino was doping, I wouldn't even be surprised if he'd been doping this
    week, and I wouldn't think less of him if I learned he had. Well, he has,
    and I don't. The fact that it was homologous not autologous suggests that
    it wasn't planned for in advance - it was a spur of the moment thing, an
    act of desperation. And that's very human, something I can relate to.
    There is tragedy here, in a classical Greek sense: the flawed hero finally
    destroyed by his flaws. But still a hero. We will be poorer - cycling will
    be poorer - without him.

    Secondly, cheating. Once upon a time in a universe far away, there was a
    little cycling club with a group of good under-16 riders. One of them had
    a very ambitious father. When the club ran time trials, the father
    would 'train' on the same circuit as the time trial, and when he did this
    the son would always record the best time. Then, one week, a neighbouring
    club ran their time trial on the same course, and both father and son
    raced. The son's time was four minutes slower than he'd been recording
    when his father was 'training'.

    Cheating happens at all levels and doesn't have to involve hypodermic
    needles. Myself, I'm never going to win a race and I know I'm never going
    to win a race; and I don't validate myself with the idea that I might win
    a race. So I don't need to cheat. Does cheating (in races in which I race)
    spoil it for me? No. I ride for the pleasure of riding, and for the
    camaraderie. For those of us who never had the genetic endowments to make
    us potential winners, cheating isn't a temptation, and racing can be
    enjoyed simply for itself.

    In the hypothetical little fairy story I told above, the other kids knew
    the son was cheating, and I think it did spoil their enjoyment a bit -
    because they could have won if he hadn't. But the child I felt sorry for
    was the son himself.

    Third, spectacle. The big professional races need to be understood as
    spectacle, as morality play, as tournament. Rasmussen, the strange, the
    driven - not as arrogant as Armstrong, not as attractive as Landis, but
    ultimately as flawed as either. Sastre, the willing lieutenant left
    exposed in the spotlight by the loss of his leader and lacking the last
    ounce of drive to take his place. Ullrich, supremely gifted, riding
    through his career in the shadow of someone more gifted (or better doped).
    Basso (and Millar), the golden boys blessed by all the gods, who fell
    because they lacked confidence in their own abilities. Yes, cheating
    happens. But it is part of the drama.

    Winning the Tour de France is a very big ambition. All across the world,
    children are lying in bed dreaming that one day it could be them. This is
    the great test in cycling, in the same way that single handed non-stop
    circumnavigation is the great test in sailing. People are drawn to great
    tests, and only the most gifted and the most driven will ever achieve
    them. For the nearly men, the temptation to cheat must be overwhelming.

    I have no simple solution to this. Ride because you enjoy it. Watch the
    great riders because, doped or undoped, cheating or not, what they are
    doing is epic, is magnificent, is extraordinary. But under that they're
    still human, and humans have flaws, even heros.

    Halfway through writing this, an old cycling friend phoned up to talk about
    the news. And in talking about it with him, I realise that one thing would
    still hurt me. I would really be hurt if we learned that Tom Boonen had
    doped. And I'm not even a Boonen fan.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; in faecibus sapiens rheum propagabit

  2. Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, archierob

    (') said:

    It is a passion - perhaps the one enduring passion of my life, I love
    my bike, I love cycling - but should I love it? It has become a game
    of cheats and chemists - my chemist is more gifted than yours, the
    latest revelations in a tour that was supposed to restore all our
    faith in its honesty is increasingly seemingly more fraudulent by the
    day. Should I give up? Can this sport ever be honest, indeed can any
    'sport'?

    OK, this is a question on many levels.

    Firstly Vino. Vino is a flawed hero. But, watching him tearing apart the
    team he was supposed to be riding for in 2005, we knew he was flawed.
    Brilliant, mercurial, egocentric, courageous, manic, charismatic, foolish.
    A man driven by complex drives; a big man in a sense which has nothing to
    do with physical size. I wrote two days ago that I wouldn't be surprised
    if Vino was doping, I wouldn't even be surprised if he'd been doping this
    week, and I wouldn't think less of him if I learned he had. Well, he has,
    and I don't. The fact that it was homologous not autologous suggests that
    it wasn't planned for in advance - it was a spur of the moment thing, an
    act of desperation. And that's very human, something I can relate to.
    There is tragedy here, in a classical Greek sense: the flawed hero finally
    destroyed by his flaws. But still a hero. We will be poorer - cycling will
    be poorer - without him.

    Secondly, cheating. Once upon a time in a universe far away, there was a
    little cycling club with a group of good under-16 riders. One of them had
    a very ambitious father. When the club ran time trials, the father
    would 'train' on the same circuit as the time trial, and when he did this
    the son would always record the best time. Then, one week, a neighbouring
    club ran their time trial on the same course, and both father and son
    raced. The son's time was four minutes slower than he'd been recording
    when his father was 'training'.

    Cheating happens at all levels and doesn't have to involve hypodermic
    needles. Myself, I'm never going to win a race and I know I'm never going
    to win a race; and I don't validate myself with the idea that I might win
    a race. So I don't need to cheat. Does cheating (in races in which I race)
    spoil it for me? No. I ride for the pleasure of riding, and for the
    camaraderie. For those of us who never had the genetic endowments to make
    us potential winners, cheating isn't a temptation, and racing can be
    enjoyed simply for itself.

    In the hypothetical little fairy story I told above, the other kids knew
    the son was cheating, and I think it did spoil their enjoyment a bit -
    because they could have won if he hadn't. But the child I felt sorry for
    was the son himself.

    Third, spectacle. The big professional races need to be understood as
    spectacle, as morality play, as tournament. Rasmussen, the strange, the
    driven - not as arrogant as Armstrong, not as attractive as Landis, but
    ultimately as flawed as either. Sastre, the willing lieutenant left
    exposed in the spotlight by the loss of his leader and lacking the last
    ounce of drive to take his place. Ullrich, supremely gifted, riding
    through his career in the shadow of someone more gifted (or better doped).
    Basso (and Millar), the golden boys blessed by all the gods, who fell
    because they lacked confidence in their own abilities. Yes, cheating
    happens. But it is part of the drama.

    Winning the Tour de France is a very big ambition. All across the world,
    children are lying in bed dreaming that one day it could be them. This is
    the great test in cycling, in the same way that single handed non-stop
    circumnavigation is the great test in sailing. People are drawn to great
    tests, and only the most gifted and the most driven will ever achieve
    them. For the nearly men, the temptation to cheat must be overwhelming.

    I have no simple solution to this. Ride because you enjoy it. Watch the
    great riders because, doped or undoped, cheating or not, what they are
    doing is epic, is magnificent, is extraordinary. But under that they're
    still human, and humans have flaws, even heros.

    Halfway through writing this, an old cycling friend phoned up to talk about
    the news. And in talking about it with him, I realise that one thing would
    still hurt me. I would really be hurt if we learned that Tom Boonen had
    doped. And I'm not even a Boonen fan.

    Thanks, Simon. Well said (even if unusually eloquent for RBR)

    Mark J.

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Simon Brooke said:

    in message <[email hidden]>, archierob

    (') said:

    It is a passion - perhaps the one enduring passion of my life, I love
    my bike, I love cycling - but should I love it? It has become a game
    of cheats and chemists - my chemist is more gifted than yours, the
    latest revelations in a tour that was supposed to restore all our
    faith in its honesty is increasingly seemingly more fraudulent by the
    day. Should I give up? Can this sport ever be honest, indeed can any
    'sport'?

    OK, this is a question on many levels.

    Firstly Vino. Vino is a flawed hero.

    Quoted message said:

    Secondly, cheating. Once upon a time in a universe far away, there was a
    little cycling club with a group of good under-16 riders. One of them had
    a very ambitious father. When the club ran time trials, the father
    would 'train' on the same circuit as the time trial, and when he did this
    the son would always record the best time. Then, one week, a neighbouring
    club ran their time trial on the same course, and both father and son
    raced. The son's time was four minutes slower than he'd been recording
    when his father was 'training'.

    Quoted message said:

    In the hypothetical little fairy story I told above, the other kids knew
    the son was cheating, and I think it did spoil their enjoyment a bit -
    because they could have won if he hadn't. But the child I felt sorry for
    was the son himself.

    You feel sorry for the son? The most pathetic character is clearly the
    father.

    Quoted message said:

    Third, spectacle. The big professional races need to be understood as
    spectacle, as morality play, as tournament.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, cheating
    happens. But it is part of the drama.

    As doping scandals dominate the sport, We experience the pro wrestling
    phenomenon: good drama, bad sport.

    Quoted message said:

    Winning the Tour de France is a very big ambition. All across the world,
    children are lying in bed dreaming that one day it could be them. This is
    the great test in cycling, in the same way that single handed non-stop
    circumnavigation is the great test in sailing. People are drawn to great
    tests, and only the most gifted and the most driven will ever achieve
    them. For the nearly men, the temptation to cheat must be overwhelming.

    "People are drawn to great tests...the temptation to cheat must be
    overwhelming." You're referring to [censored] Pound, aren't you?

    I think at this point the "NHL hockey helmet conundrum" may describe the
    riders' attitudes towards helmets, as explained in this column:

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2007/07/23/070723ta_talk_surowiec
    ki

    In short, most hockey players in the NHL of the 1970s wanted helmets to
    be mandatory, but didn't wear one.

    "The reason for this conflict, Schelling explained, was that not wearing
    a helmet conferred a slight advantage on the ice; crucially, it gave the
    player better peripheral vision, and it also made him look fearless. The
    players wanted to have their heads protected, but as individuals they
    couldn't afford to jeopardize their effectiveness on the ice."

    Similarly, there's a sort of Prisoner's Dilemma in doping. The greatest
    average benefit to the riders (never mind the sport in general) would be
    if nobody doped. The bad-case scenario is if everybody dopes (no
    advantage to doping, plus you risk getting busted, or sick). But if the
    other guy dopes and you don't, you lose for sure.

    So, lots of riders dope.

    As for my thoughts on this matter, the short version is that I like
    amateur racing, and I don't think it is good for the pro sport when the
    decisive move in the Tour comes on the rest day.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  4. Ryan Cousineau said:

    As for my thoughts on this matter, the short version is that I like
    amateur racing, and I don't think it is good for the pro sport when the
    decisive move in the Tour comes on the rest day.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden]://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    What makes you so sure that amateur riders do not dope? Do you have
    any evidence? I think you are wrong.

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