Orac <[email hidden]> responded:
Quoted message said:I've been around the block a few times on this one, too.
Heh, and through the wringer...
Quoted message said:Notice that the article is nearly 10 years old.
Notice the body of science that is even older than a decade, and yet
somehow manages to stand the test of time...
Quoted message said:Notice that it is the only article ever published on this compound.
Notice that Floyd Taub et al, in a sophomoric attempt to defraud the
authentic inventors of their intellectual property, have done lots of
[censored] "junk science" studies to support their totally unsupported
"scientific" claims that vitalethine "can't exist" and thus avoid
criminal prosecution for patent fraud and unjustified human
experimentation...
Quoted message said:Notice that no followup articles have ever been published.
Notice that Knight and Scallen have resisted the collaborative theft of
their IP pro se, meaning that they have borne the cost and effort of
doing so on their own, a daunting task under normal circumstances, and
well nigh impossible when going "toe to toe" with a state institution
that has seemingly unlimited resources to attain its ends, justified or
not...
Quoted message said:Potential explanations include:
Quoted message said:1. Further studies were done but went nowhere and did not produce
publishable data. (In my experience, this is the most probable
explanation for a seemingly promising compound that has a publication
or two about it in the peer-reviewed literature but then no followup
publications for many years.)
Please note that the published (and patented) technology was the
culmination of many years of hypothesis and study...
Quoted message said:2. No further studies were done.
Further "studies" were derailed by Taub et al, with UNM's blessing for
some obscure reason, that at this juncture can no longer be
characterized as reasonable, ethical, honorable, or legal...
Quoted message said:It appears that #2 is true in this case. One has to ask the reason no
further studies were done.
True, in the sense that Taub has no intention of acknlowledging the
authentic work he plagiarized blatantly to obtain false patent on the
same compounds and applications...
Quoted message said:Well, it is known that there is a legal battle going on between Galen
Knight and the University of New Mexico, where the work was done. The
It is? Nice to know my efforts in theis regard have not gone wasted...
Quoted message said:The most recent accounts I could find are here:
http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/cancer/060701_cancer_science.shtml
http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091501_news_unmwins.shtml
I will follow up on this below...
Quoted message said:I have not been able to find out if it is resolved yet. Presumably the
legal battle is now going through the appeals process (if Knight and
Galen have the resources to pursue it), although UNM appears to have
won rather definitively in 2001.
"Won" due to a corrupt judge presiding over a kangaroo-court proceeding
in the "third-world-country-posing-as-a-state" known as New Mexico...
Quoted message said:Further, it is known that Galen Knight is injecting his compound into
various animals in a completely uncontrolled fashion and claiming
efficacy:
http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/cancer/060801_cancer_can2.shtml
Completely uncontrolled? It is my understanding that Dr. Knight provides
the complete treatment protocol, in addition to the experimental
compound, free of charge, for veterinarians interested in verifiying the
formal results in field studies, this in spite of being subjected to
blacklisting and extortion tactics by UNM "oafish-shills" seeking to
cover their own criminal activities...
Quoted message said:Let's look a little more at Galen Knight. In 1996, he apparently formed
a company, VitaleTherapeutics: http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org
Not to mention this "company" is a fully accredited 501c "not for
profit" research and educational organization dedicated to dispelling
widespread disinformation concerning nutrition, environment, and
contemporary medical practices...
Quoted message said:Moreover, he makes a lot of claims and trots out a lot of standard
alt-med boilerplate about "toxic metals in the water.
As a "pHd." (sic, in reference/deference to his chosen profession) with
a multidisciplinary background and "real-life" experience in drug
development, perhaps he is justified in offering his well-informed
opinions to those of us with less knowledge and understanding in this
arena...
Quoted message said:On the positive side: Vitalethine may hold some promise as an
anticancer treatment, but it's hard to say based on one article in
Cancer Research. Clearly UNM thinks so, or it wouldn't bother to go to
court. Apparently the legal battle between Knight and UNM is hampering
further investigation into it, and Knight, even though he clearly has
the compound, has not done any further controlled studies with it--nor
has anyone else. Other than his Cancer Research paper, the evidence
that it might work is wholly anecdotal and uncontrolled. It may be
effective, but we don't know. It does appear at least promising enough
to warrant further controlled studies, but based on one mouse study it
is irresponsible to make the claims for Vitalethine that Knight makes.
A rather murky "positive" review. Again, the paper and patents were the
the culmination of many well-defined anc controlled studies, by seasoned
scientists with proven track records in their field. "Orac" has an axe
to grind in this regard, due to his own interest in the competing avenue
of gene therapy. His limited understanding of the vitaletheine
modulators gives him no authority whatsoever to pass judgement on the
"irresponsibility" of Knight in promoting greater knowledge and
understanding for any and all. The tainted odor of professional
jealousy lingers after "Orac's" posts without exception...
Quoted message said:On the minus side: What has made Galen Knight, who appears to have
started out as a promising young scientist, become progressively less
credible to me is that he now associates himself with some alt-med
groups and advocates who are themselves pushing questionable "medicine"
and "science." For instance, seems to have become obsessed with heavy
metal poisoning (where have we heard that before?), specifically
nickel, and has even in the past claimed that the nickel in underwire
bras might contribute to the development of breast cancer. He has also
made some rather vague claims about "boosting the immune system" that
sound a lot like standard altie boilerplate tarted up with a little
more sophisticated scientific terminology than the usual. More
tellingly, like many questionable alt-med practitioners, he has started
to broaden his claims for what Vitalethine can do beyond treating
cancer. He has also started referring to conventional medicine as
"allopathy" and conventional doctors as "allopaths," terms which, as
most of us know, alt-med practitioners frequently use perjoratively.
Real conventional doctors almost never use that term to describe
themselves.
Given the extremely shabby treatment Knight and Scallen have received at
the hands of the institutions they served long and well, it is a wonder
that they have persisted in their possibly feeble hope that some measure
of justice may yet be obtained from an apparently corrupt and profoundly
nebulous "system" that places far more importance on maintaining the
"status quo" of structured mediocrity and widespread inaccountability
that has been the hallmark of American politics for quite some time. I
repeat, Knight is not some run-of-the-mill research hack with tenure and
retirement foremost in his thoughts. Exceptional people rarely rely upon
"conventional wisdom" to guide their creative journey, and their
opinions always seem to be outrageous until it dawns upon the more
intelligent among us that they might be justified in thinking the
thoughts they do...
Quoted message said:Also on the minus side, they say one should judge a man by his friends.
Galen Knight has a friend who prowls Usenet under the name of
Kristopher Dale. This Kristopher Dale character pushes Vitalethine and
its related compounds uncritically and with pit bull-like tenacity. Any
criticism of his posts or of Vitalethine results not in scientific
discussion but relentless ad hominem attacks. I've tangled with Dale a
few times myself in various newsgroups in the past. I haven't bumped
into him in a while, but it wouldn't surprise me if he periodically
does Google searches for any mention of Vitalethine. If that's the
case, we may see him show up in this thread.
Let's judge a man by his accuracy as well, shall we not? My name is
Kristofer, always has been, always will. This is a fact that both
"Steph" and "Orac" have had repeated difficulty in grasping, perhaps
because they are not well-acquainted with the apparantly suspicious
practice of using one's real name in public forums. Let's get some other
facts straight, shall we? I routinely monitor certain Usenet forums,
this one included, to acquaint the internet world with Knight and
Scallen's ground-breaking work. I myself do not "push" vitalethine as a
compound, but as a concept, a more far-reaching goal given the
possibilities that have been demonstrated in the treatment of
immune-related disease. I have not ever, nor will I ever, represent
myself as anything other than a messenger (albeit with a loud mouth) who
has "practiced what he preaches" regarding the basic detox and
supplementation strategies Knight advocates in person and within his
website. I am biased by my positive experience with Knight's ideas, but
let me in on a little secret. Everyone, everywhere is biased, no matter
what walk of life, vocation, situation, and that is why the issue of
science was deemed important enough to develop and refine over the
centuries. When some knee-jerk reaction surfaces, like Orac's for
example, opinions can be cast in any negative light one chooses for the
purposes of bolstering a flagging confidence or just plain contrariness.
This mystery man "Kristopher" Orac seems to be concerned with would seem
to suggest the latter...
Quoted message said:So, in the end, I'm of two minds about Vitalethine. It does seem to
hold at least a little promise for melanoma. Unfortunately, the legal
battle over who owns it appears to have pushed Galen Knight firmly into
the altie camp, and he has made some claims for his compounds that
undermine his credibility. It also seems to me that the legal battle
could have been avoided if UNM and Scallen had cooperated rather than
fought. I have no way of knowing who was more to blame for this woeful
situation, Knight and Scallen or UNM. (Naturally Knight and Dale claim
it was all UNM's fault.) Further, the legal battle is a perfect
situation for alties, as it allows them to claim that Vitalethine is
being "suppressed." It would have been better if the legal battle had
never happened. In that case, by now definitive studies that would have
determined whether Vitalethine is the real thing or yet another in a
depressing line of compounds that show some activity in initial studies
but then later never pan out.
Well, to be fair, we have always lived in a "criminal" world. We are
constantly surrounded by the evidence and activities of this stark
reality. There is nothing remotely just or reasonable about life, human
beings, or even the vast and seemingly uncaring universe itself. Yet, as
a scientists, you have accepted certain patterns of thinking, acting,
and even expecting that color your existence and experience. That does
not mean that you have a perfect understanding of the world and the
intricate underpinnings that make it "tick". I must point out that your
opinions are no more infallible than Knight's, mine, or the person
walking down the street outside. I close by pointing out that Galen can
readily be likened to the bat of the famous Aesop Fable than your coyly
termed "altie camp" in that he often provokes a similar reaction from
those you so proudly differentiate yourself from. Shunned by both bird
and beast, the bat nevertheless proceeds upon it's unique way, endowed
by evolution with abilities surpassing both, leaving us to marvel at the
myriad expressions of life our small blue planet has produced as it has
progressed on it's merry way to eventual oblivion...
Quoted message said:-- Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
As I pointed out before, the stater of "fact" is certainly capable
of insolence, as you so ably demonstrate...
Quoted message said:|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"
If you cannot listen to the questions with an open mind, why should I
inconvenience myself with your "answers"?
For an example of yet another "scientific" mind at work:
"New Mexicans for Simpering Regurgitation"
http://www.nmia.com/~barefoot/feedback.htm
--
_o Kristofer Dale,
_ \<,_ ragged individualist,
_____( )/ ( )_____ statistic at large...
p.s. Learn and live, http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org