General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Re: bathroom scale hysteresis

Started by The Real Andy · · Last activity · 4 posts · 322 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
1 June 2005
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2 June 2005
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The Real Andy
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  1. Quoted message said:

    Sneaky scales fudge weights deliberately.

    I suspect that many modern, microprocessor -controlled bathroom scales
    have programmed in hysteresis to increase user confidence in the
    scale's accuracy. The scale remembers fresh measurements, say 166.2#,
    and if it next measures same weight +/- a little (within a short time),
    say 166.8#, then the scale decides to report the *original* measurement
    166.2#. Neat. Sneaky. User believes the scale is highly repeatable.

    On such a scale, I weigh myself multiple times and get the same reading
    (to the 0.2#) each time. 166.2#, 166.2#, 166.2#, 166.2#, ...
    Then I weigh something different (myself holding a load), to reset the
    memory.
    Then I weigh myself again... Now, get something like 166.8#, 166.8#,
    166.8#, 166.8#, ... very solid again, but 0.6# different from 1st
    series of measurements.

    I tried 6 models (2 or 3 brands) at a retail store display and find
    this "feature" common.

    Is it important? Maybe yes in the following scenario -- in some sports
    like wrestling, boxing, judo, you have multiple competitors weighing in
    at the same time, same scale, with possibly very similar weight. Some
    competitors are concerned with as little as 0.25#. In this case it
    seems one competitor could inherit the weight measurement of the person
    in front of him.

    In a perfect world, competition weigh-in equipment should be
    certified/calibrated. But since the bathroom scale appears so
    repeatable, some competitions now use modern, microprocessor
    -controlled bathroom scales.

    Somebody's going to say... "you shouldn't do that". Right, I agree.
    But (a) it's happening, because (b) this hysteresis (memory)phenomenon
    isn't widely known, I suspect.

    Anyone care to confirm? Contradict? Repeat the experiment on their
    own scale? Comment? In my experiment I didn't bother to determine
    what weight difference resets the memory -- 1#? 1.5#?

    Regards,
    John Ruckstuhl

    Having spent some time in the weiging industry, i can assure you that
    the cheap portable bathroom scales that you buy are neither:
    a. repeatable
    b. accurate
    c. linear

    In fact, most will become more innacurate in the most common weight
    ranges.

    In AU, a cheap set is $20, a good repeatable set is $400. The
    expensive scale can be recalibrate and remains linear. Should it not
    be linear a multi-point cal can be done. The cheap set can only be
    thrown.

    Most cheap sets are innacurate of the shelf as they are made in china
    and fail to take into account local gravitational constants

  2. "The Real Andy" <will_get_back_to_you_on_This> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Sneaky scales fudge weights deliberately.

    I suspect that many modern, microprocessor -controlled bathroom scales
    have programmed in hysteresis to increase user confidence in the
    scale's accuracy. The scale remembers fresh measurements, say 166.2#,
    and if it next measures same weight +/- a little (within a short time),
    say 166.8#, then the scale decides to report the *original* measurement
    166.2#. Neat. Sneaky. User believes the scale is highly repeatable.

    On such a scale, I weigh myself multiple times and get the same reading
    (to the 0.2#) each time. 166.2#, 166.2#, 166.2#, 166.2#, ...
    Then I weigh something different (myself holding a load), to reset the
    memory.
    Then I weigh myself again... Now, get something like 166.8#, 166.8#,
    166.8#, 166.8#, ... very solid again, but 0.6# different from 1st
    series of measurements.

    I tried 6 models (2 or 3 brands) at a retail store display and find
    this "feature" common.

    Is it important? Maybe yes in the following scenario -- in some sports
    like wrestling, boxing, judo, you have multiple competitors weighing in
    at the same time, same scale, with possibly very similar weight. Some
    competitors are concerned with as little as 0.25#. In this case it
    seems one competitor could inherit the weight measurement of the person
    in front of him.

    In a perfect world, competition weigh-in equipment should be
    certified/calibrated. But since the bathroom scale appears so
    repeatable, some competitions now use modern, microprocessor
    -controlled bathroom scales.

    Somebody's going to say... "you shouldn't do that". Right, I agree.
    But (a) it's happening, because (b) this hysteresis (memory)phenomenon
    isn't widely known, I suspect.

    Anyone care to confirm? Contradict? Repeat the experiment on their
    own scale? Comment? In my experiment I didn't bother to determine
    what weight difference resets the memory -- 1#? 1.5#?

    Regards,
    John Ruckstuhl

    Having spent some time in the weiging industry, i can assure you that
    the cheap portable bathroom scales that you buy are neither:
    a. repeatable
    b. accurate
    c. linear

    In fact, most will become more innacurate in the most common weight
    ranges.

    In AU, a cheap set is $20, a good repeatable set is $400. The
    expensive scale can be recalibrate and remains linear. Should it not
    be linear a multi-point cal can be done. The cheap set can only be
    thrown.

    Most cheap sets are innacurate of the shelf as they are made in china
    and fail to take into account local gravitational constants

    Do you have any experience with the newer digital models? Not the low-end
    ones, but ones like the Tanita with ostensible 0.2 lb resolution, priced
    around $50-90 (US).

    For instance, http://tinyurl.com/49swe, or the more expensive German-made
    Soehnle brand http://tinyurl.com/3t6kt.

    GG

  3. On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:26:55 -0700, "GaryG" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Having spent some time in the weiging industry, i can assure you that
    the cheap portable bathroom scales that you buy are neither:
    a. repeatable
    b. accurate
    c. linear

    In fact, most will become more innacurate in the most common weight
    ranges.

    In AU, a cheap set is $20, a good repeatable set is $400. The
    expensive scale can be recalibrate and remains linear. Should it not
    be linear a multi-point cal can be done. The cheap set can only be
    thrown.

    Most cheap sets are innacurate of the shelf as they are made in china
    and fail to take into account local gravitational constants

    Do you have any experience with the newer digital models? Not the low-end
    ones, but ones like the Tanita with ostensible 0.2 lb resolution, priced
    around $50-90 (US).

    For instance, http://tinyurl.com/49swe, or the more expensive German-made
    Soehnle brand http://tinyurl.com/3t6kt.

    GG

    The high end Soehnle scales can be calibrated, but the ones show look
    like you standard cheap [censored]. I could well be wrong here. Some Soehnle
    stuff is quiet good.

    Tanita, never seen anything but cheap [censored].

    The good scales I am familiar with are manufactured by a company
    called AND. Try do a google for AND though!!

  4. http://www.andweighing.com/and.nsf/html/UC+Series

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