Question on European pavement cycling laws?

[Straw]

<De-lurk 2>
I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
seem different to here.
I personally DON'T cycle on the pavement (Amongst
other reasons (e.g. the law!) I'm one of the 'don't
give any ammo to the bike haters mindset),
but when I've been abroad (germany holland and perhaps
spain spring to mind) I've noticed that cyclists *seem*
to be allowed to cycle on the pavement. Indeed I did
one of these noddy city cycling tours and from memory
it seemed like we were allowed to right through
pedestrian precincts. There didn't seem a problem with
it.

Does anyone know, what is the law on the continent
with regards to this? Is it allowed over there?

Personally I would like to see it allowed here, with
the adjustment that in the event of an accident
cyclist / pedestrian, then the position defaults
to cyclist guilty (much in the same way some countries
default to car driver guilty in car / cycle collisions).

And of course throw the book at them if they were
cycling irresponsibly. This would for example allow
cyclists to hop onto a completely unpopulated
pavement that happens to run alongside a busy road
without fear of grief - unless they do something idiotic.

If we get rid of 'no road tax', 'cycling on pavements,
thats illegal that is' .. erm ..
We only need to shoot cyclists who sail
through red lights and we're 95% of the way there to
shutting up the anti-bike brigade

 

[Mark van Gorkom]

On 21 Apr 2005 22:28:28 GMT, "Straw" <[email protected]> wrote:

><De-lurk 2>
>I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
>seem different to here.
>I personally DON'T cycle on the pavement (Amongst
>other reasons (e.g. the law!) I'm one of the 'don't
>give any ammo to the bike haters mindset),
>but when I've been abroad (germany holland and perhaps
>spain spring to mind) I've noticed that cyclists *seem*
>to be allowed to cycle on the pavement. Indeed I did
>one of these noddy city cycling tours and from memory
>it seemed like we were allowed to right through
>pedestrian precincts. There didn't seem a problem with
>it.
>
It's not allowed in The Netherlands, BUT it's very difficult in some
city centres to see what's the cycle lane and what's the pavement.
Cycle lanes are red as a rule but sometimes it's just a different kind
of paving, with infrequent signage. It is allowede in a few pedestrian
zones to cycle at certain times ("clearly" marked with a sign). Of
course Dutch cyclists are not the most law-abiding kind...
In Germany there are a lot of shared use paths, mostly signposted as
such with a (German-specific?) range of signs.

Mark van Gorkom.

 

[Tosspot]

Straw wrote:

> <De-lurk 2> I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
> seem different to here. I personally DON'T cycle on the pavement
> (Amongst other reasons (e.g. the law!) I'm one of the 'don't give any
> ammo to the bike haters mindset), but when I've been abroad (germany
> holland and perhaps spain spring to mind) I've noticed that cyclists
> *seem* to be allowed to cycle on the pavement. Indeed I did one of
> these noddy city cycling tours and from memory it seemed like we were
> allowed to right through pedestrian precincts. There didn't seem a
> problem with it.
>
> Does anyone know, what is the law on the continent with regards to
> this? Is it allowed over there?

Its the same. However, at least in Germany, nearly every pavement along
a main road is shared and some precincts are as well. One small point
to notice, you should use the correct side of the road, i.e. dont cycle
on the shared use pavement against the traffic. Occasionally plod will
stop you and call you a cnut. Why, i've never worked out.

 

[Helge Kristoffersen]

"Straw" <[email protected]> skrev i melding
news:[email protected]...
> <De-lurk 2>
> I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
> seem different to here.
> I personally DON'T cycle on the pavement (Amongst
> other reasons (e.g. the law!) I'm one of the 'don't
> give any ammo to the bike haters mindset),
> but when I've been abroad (germany holland and perhaps
> spain spring to mind) I've noticed that cyclists *seem*
> to be allowed to cycle on the pavement. Indeed I did
> one of these noddy city cycling tours and from memory
> it seemed like we were allowed to right through
> pedestrian precincts. There didn't seem a problem with
> it.
>
> Does anyone know, what is the law on the continent
> with regards to this? Is it allowed over there?
>

I don't know about Germany, Holland and Spain, but in Norway cyclists
are allowed to use the pavements. We also have common bike/footpaths
alongside some of the roads in the towns. But of course, if you want
to cycle fast, it is not very practical to mingle with the
pedestrians--

HelgeK
Norway, mostly uphill

 

[Michael MacClancy]

On 21 Apr 2005 22:28:28 GMT, Straw wrote:

> <De-lurk 2>
> I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
> seem different to here.

German law appears to make a clear distinction between footpaths,
cyclepaths and roads. You must use a cyclepath when one is available.
Only children below the age of ten are allowed to use footpaths and
children below the age of eight must use footpaths (they are not even
allowed on cyclepaths as far as I know). This means that if a family is
out and there's a seven year old in the group then the adults must ride on
the cyclepath and the child on the footpath.

If you're involved in an accident with a motor vehicle and you're on the
wrong path (i.e. adult riding on footpath) then your liability increases.

--
Michael MacClancy

 

[Tom Orr]

Tosspot wrote:
<snipped>
>
> Its the same. However, at least in Germany, nearly every pavement
> along a main road is shared and some precincts are as well. One
> small point to notice, you should use the correct side of the road,
> i.e. dont cycle on the shared use pavement against the traffic.
> Occasionally plod will stop you and call you a cnut. Why, i've never
> worked out.

Also if you park your car facing the wrong way you will be told off by just
about everyone. IMO German car drivers in town, pedestrians and cyclists
seem to stick rigidly to the rules. Cars move around noticeably more slowly.
If a car collides with a cyclist it is immediately assumed that the car
driver was at fault unless proven otherwise (as has been mentioned on the NG
in the past). Makes the roads feel safer as a pedestrian and as a driver I
was much more aware of the (much larger number of) cyclists.

Tom.

 

[[email protected]]

The few pedestrianised areas I have seen in France were clearly marked
with signs showing that cycle access was permitted. (DfT guidelines say
that cycle access should be allowed through pedestrianised areas here
too but local authorities often ignore this - often on the basis that
pedestrians show no respect for marked cycle paths and so put
themselves and cyclists in danger...)

It's not in Europe but in Japan the norm is for cyclist and pedestrians
to share the same paths.

 

[David Martin]

On 22/4/05 8:03 am, in article [email protected], "Helge
Kristoffersen" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't know about Germany, Holland and Spain, but in Norway cyclists
> are allowed to use the pavements. We also have common bike/footpaths
> alongside some of the roads in the towns. But of course, if you want
> to cycle fast, it is not very practical to mingle with the
> pedestrians--

Trying to explain to a van driver that 1. not only was I faster than him
downhill on the road but he really didn't want me doing that speed on the
parallel shared use path with all the kids going to school was not terribly
productive. Possibly due to my poor spoken Norwegian, and possibly because
he was in a white van with a copy of VG[1] on the dashboard.

...d

[1] UK readers substitute D***y M**l

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Tosspot
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Straw wrote:
>
>> <De-lurk 2> I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
>> seem different to here. I personally DON'T cycle on the pavement
>> (Amongst other reasons (e.g. the law!) I'm one of the 'don't give any
>> ammo to the bike haters mindset), but when I've been abroad (germany
>> holland and perhaps spain spring to mind) I've noticed that cyclists
>> *seem* to be allowed to cycle on the pavement. Indeed I did one of
>> these noddy city cycling tours and from memory it seemed like we were
>> allowed to right through pedestrian precincts. There didn't seem a
>> problem with it.
>>
>> Does anyone know, what is the law on the continent with regards to
>> this? Is it allowed over there?
>
> Its the same. However, at least in Germany, nearly every pavement
> along
> a main road is shared and some precincts are as well. One small point
> to notice, you should use the correct side of the road, i.e. dont
> cycle
> on the shared use pavement against the traffic. Occasionally plod
> will
> stop you and call you a cnut. Why, i've never worked out.

Because it's _extremely_ dangerous - the most dangerous place to cycle
and three times as dangerous as the average for all cycling. Cycling on
the pavement in the _same_ direction as traffic in the adjacent lane is
much safer - only 0.7 times as dangerous as the average for all
cycling.

See <URL:http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm>,
especially table 5.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
.::;===r==\
/ /___||___\____
//==\- ||- | /__\( MS Windows IS an operating environment.
//____\__||___|_// \|: C++ IS an object oriented programming
language.
\__/ ~~~~~~~~~ \__/ Citroen 2cv6 IS a four door family saloon.

 

[[email protected]]

Straw wrote:
> <De-lurk 2>
> I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
> seem different to here.
> I personally DON'T cycle on the pavement (Amongst
> other reasons (e.g. the law!) I'm one of the 'don't
> give any ammo to the bike haters mindset),
> but when I've been abroad (germany holland and perhaps
> spain spring to mind) I've noticed that cyclists *seem*
> to be allowed to cycle on the pavement. <snip>
> Personally I would like to see it allowed here, <snip sensible enough
mitigations>
> This would for example allow
> cyclists to hop onto a completely unpopulated
> pavement that happens to run alongside a busy road
> without fear of grief - unless they do something idiotic.

which would allow drivers and road designers to make no allowances for
bicycles without any guilt and fails to account for leaving the
pavement again which is the most dangerous aspect of pavement cycling

best wishes
james

 

[DaveR]

Michael MacClancy wrote:
> On 21 Apr 2005 22:28:28 GMT, Straw wrote:
>
>
>><De-lurk 2>
>>I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
>>seem different to here.
>
>
> German law appears to make a clear distinction between footpaths,
> cyclepaths and roads. You must use a cyclepath when one is available.
> Only children below the age of ten are allowed to use footpaths and
> children below the age of eight must use footpaths (they are not even
> allowed on cyclepaths as far as I know). This means that if a family is
> out and there's a seven year old in the group then the adults must ride on
> the cyclepath and the child on the footpath.
>
> If you're involved in an accident with a motor vehicle and you're on the
> wrong path (i.e. adult riding on footpath) then your liability increases.
>
No, you do not _have_ to use a cyclepath if one is available.

 

[Michael MacClancy]

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 20:39:12 +0100, DaveR wrote:

> Michael MacClancy wrote:
>> On 21 Apr 2005 22:28:28 GMT, Straw wrote:
>>
>>
>>><De-lurk 2>
>>>I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
>>>seem different to here.
>>
>>
>> German law appears to make a clear distinction between footpaths,
>> cyclepaths and roads. You must use a cyclepath when one is available.
>> Only children below the age of ten are allowed to use footpaths and
>> children below the age of eight must use footpaths (they are not even
>> allowed on cyclepaths as far as I know). This means that if a family is
>> out and there's a seven year old in the group then the adults must ride on
>> the cyclepath and the child on the footpath.
>>
>> If you're involved in an accident with a motor vehicle and you're on the
>> wrong path (i.e. adult riding on footpath) then your liability increases.
>>
> No, you do not _have_ to use a cyclepath if one is available.

Under what circumstances?
--
Michael MacClancy

 

[Tosspot]

Michael MacClancy wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 20:39:12 +0100, DaveR wrote:
>
>
>>Michael MacClancy wrote:
>>
>>>On 21 Apr 2005 22:28:28 GMT, Straw wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>><De-lurk 2>
>>>>I've noticed in europe the laws on cycling on pavements
>>>>seem different to here.
>>>
>>>
>>>German law appears to make a clear distinction between footpaths,
>>>cyclepaths and roads. You must use a cyclepath when one is available.
>>>Only children below the age of ten are allowed to use footpaths and
>>>children below the age of eight must use footpaths (they are not even
>>>allowed on cyclepaths as far as I know). This means that if a family is
>>>out and there's a seven year old in the group then the adults must ride on
>>>the cyclepath and the child on the footpath.
>>>
>>>If you're involved in an accident with a motor vehicle and you're on the
>>>wrong path (i.e. adult riding on footpath) then your liability increases.
>>>
>>
>>No, you do not _have_ to use a cyclepath if one is available.
>
>
> Under what circumstances?

Well, the local road race would be one