Physiological benefits of "lactate clearance" training?



Iktome

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Nov 1, 2005
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What are the physiological benefits of improving lactate clearance (assuming that's possible)? As I understand it, lactate itself does not contribute to fatigue, and so its presence in the cell shouldn't be of any negative consequence. Can the cell actually get crowded (for lack of a better term) such that additional lactate can't form (and thus buffer the increased protons)?

I'm not asking as a means to change/improve my training, I'm just curious.
 
I think we need a lactic acid/lactate FAQ. I could be mistaken but I believe this is answered in the current "Test Results" thread in this forum.
 
First, the conversion of pyruvate to lactate, helps getting rid of some protons.
So some think that lactate production actually delays acidosis.

But in order to produce more lactate, you need to get rid of the old one. That's part of the reason why lactate clearance is a good thing.

Plus, heart, liver, kidneys and I don't know what else, use lactate as a fuel. In the liver, I think the lactate gets recycled into glucose, which is thrown back in the blood to be used as a fuel. So of course, lactate clearance basically means, more fuel being used by the body.

Plus, less lactate at a given workload, may mean that more pyruvate gets broken down by the mitochodria, instead of being converted into lactate. For some people, this is a sign of fitness.

But I understood your question. You are wandering. If lactate isn't bad, why its presence seems to be a negative sign? For what it is worth, I would guess that high level of lactate is a sign of mitochondria being overloaded. And that, may be very negative.

PLEASE, somebody help me with that question :D
 
SolarEnergy said:
First, the conversion of pyruvate to lactate, helps getting rid of some protons.
So some think that lactate production actually delays acidosis.

But in order to produce more lactate, you need to get rid of the old one. That's part of the reason why lactate clearance is a good thing.

Plus, heart, liver, kidneys and I don't know what else, use lactate as a fuel. In the liver, I think the lactate gets recycled into glucose, which is thrown back in the blood to be used as a fuel. So of course, lactate clearance basically means, more fuel being used by the body.

Plus, less lactate at a given workload, may mean that more pyruvate gets broken down by the mitochodria, instead of being converted into lactate. For some people, this is a sign of fitness.

There are probably other reasons.

The people with the most lactate in their blood at the end of a kilo are the world class athletes.
 
Woofer said:
The people with the most lactate in their blood at the end of a kilo are the world class athletes.
Yes maybe.:)

But I think that this is for a reason totally different than the context in which OP has formulated his question.

Kilo racer, must

1) become good at producing a huge amount of lactate in the shortest time possible. That is what some call anaerobic power. It allows for sharp acceleration, and high max speed.

Then

2) become good at performing huge muscular contraction even though ph becomes acid. That is what some call anaerobic capacity. It allows to maintain high speed, all the way through the end of the event.

But

In my opinion, even though the goal is not lactate removal, in the context of kilo racing, some pyruvate may be broken down by mitochondria too. But I'm not sure about it.

As Warren and Fergie have pointed out in a Kilo thread, there is an Aerobic componment in a kilo performance.
 
SolarEnergy said:
But I understood your question. You are wandering. If lactate isn't bad, why its presence seems to be a negative sign? For what it is worth, I would guess that high level of lactate is a sign of mitochondria being overloaded. And that, may be very negative.

PLEASE, somebody help me with that question :D

Lactate is sometimes referred to as a "proxy" for some things happening in the muscles, most of which are bad. The reason this proxy (lactate) is considered is because it's easier to measure lactate levels than the bad things happening in the muscles, like reduced ph/an increase in hydrogen, which is the main problem. Muscles can't perform well, or at all when ph drops siginificantly.

Some light reading about lactate/lactic acid...

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/lactate.html
 
Proxy

I like that. Frenchyge kindly explained me all that once, but I guess I needed to be explained twice :eek:

Thanks
 
SolarEnergy said:
But I understood your question. You are wandering. If lactate isn't bad, why its presence seems to be a negative sign?
The presence of lactate itself is not necessarily bad, but as Warren points out, its presence means that things are not going as well as we'd like inside the cell. Namely that once the glucose is broken down inside the cell, its by-products are leaving the cell as waste (and contributing to lower cell pH), rather than being further processed in the mitochondria to produce more energy for use directly by the cell.

More lactate light-reading:
http://home.hia.no/~stephens/lacthres.htm
 
SolarEnergy said:
But I understood your question. You are wandering. If lactate isn't bad, why its presence seems to be a negative sign?
That's not quite the question.

I understand that the appearance of lactate indicates an increased reliance on the glycolitic reaction to provide ATP; that the mitochondria are unable to absorb and utilize the pyruvate and protons from glycolisis and protons from the use of ATP. Lactate buffers the proton buildup. (This is, of course, simplifying a bit).

However, I continually hear about training to improve lactate clearance. My question is -- why? Lactate is the result of a problem, not the problem itself.

So unless the buildup of lactate does impede muscle function, there's no reason to worry about lactate clearance (that I can see).

What I'm really asking is -- does lactate buildup impede muscle function, and if so, how?
 
Iktome said:
However, I continually hear about training to improve lactate clearance. My question is -- why? Lactate is the result of a problem, not the problem itself.

So unless the buildup of lactate does impede muscle function, there's no reason to worry about lactate clearance (that I can see).
What confuses you is the terminology. Lactate clearance sounds like we want to get rid of lactate. But that is not the case.

Actually, we just want to use more. So we should call it lactate utilisation instead. You want to increase utilisation, while increasing the volume of pyruvate that gets transformed into energy through the mitochondria. This is also a good sign.

Monitoring a high level of lactate in the blood, may indicate that not enough is being use, or that too much is being produced (as a result of pyruvate not being broken down at the mitochondria level).

Now that is just my understanding, for what it's worth.
 
Iktome said:
That's not quite the question.

I understand that the appearance of lactate indicates an increased reliance on the glycolitic reaction to provide ATP; that the mitochondria are unable to absorb and utilize the pyruvate and protons from glycolisis and protons from the use of ATP. Lactate buffers the proton buildup. (This is, of course, simplifying a bit).

However, I continually hear about training to improve lactate clearance. My question is -- why? Lactate is the result of a problem, not the problem itself.

So unless the buildup of lactate does impede muscle function, there's no reason to worry about lactate clearance (that I can see).

What I'm really asking is -- does lactate buildup impede muscle function, and if so, how?
Who is telling you to improve lactate clearance?
It seems simple enough to as them what the rationale behind this is.
 
SolarEnergy said:
Actually, we just want to use more. So we should call it lactate utilisation instead. You want to increase utilisation, while increasing the volume of pyruvate that gets transformed into energy through the mitochondria. This is also a good sign.
I'm pretty sure that's not quite all of it.

Lactate is indeed an energy source, but not in the muscles that you are using at that moment to produce near- or above-sustainable power. Once the lactate gets into the blood, it will be used by various organs and non-working skeletal muscle. But the fact that it's around in the first place is an indication that the mitochondria can't utilize the pyruvate available to them to produce sufficient ATP. If the mitochondria could do so, you wouldn't have any lactate to worry about.

I have a feeling the terminology is (left over) from the mindset that acidosis in the muscles is caused by lactic acid (see the link in frenchyge's post for example). If you think lactic acid is causing the problem, I can understand thinking you should train to get rid of it as fast as possible.

Unless, once again, lactate accumulation does impede muscular function in some way (at least when it can't be used as an energy source).
 
Woofer said:
Who is telling you to improve lactate clearance?

It's a proxy. What he's probably asking is, why do I need to improve the muscle/body status indicated by high amounts of lactate?

IIRC, certain training will help your muscles tolerate (function better) the lower ph environment (indicated by high lacate levels) a little better. At Stephen's site linked by Frenchgye, Stephen mentions...

"With training, blood flow to organs such as the liver and kidneys decreases less at any given exercise workload, due to decreased sympathetic stimulation. This results in increased lactate removal from the circulatory system by these organs."
 
WarrenG said:
"With training, blood flow to organs such as the liver and kidneys decreases less at any given exercise workload, due to decreased sympathetic stimulation. This results in increased lactate removal from the circulatory system by these organs."
What's the point of this quote? Doesn't this assume that the removal of lactate from the bloodstream is somehow beneficial?

But maybe the use of the term "lactate clearance training" wasn't the best way to approach this.

Ignore the proxy talk -- I get that. I'm asking specifically about lactate. Is there any physiological benefit at all in improving the body's ability to "clear" lactate?

Stated another way: is there any evidence -- does anyone think, hypothesize, or otherwise wonder -- if lactate itself and its accumulation in the muscles or blood in any way inhibits performance?

And for what it's worth, I started thinking about this because of Warren and Andy's little discussion in the "test results" thread where they both repeatedly used the term "lactate clearance."
 
Iktome said:
Stated another way: is there any evidence -- does anyone think, hypothesize, or otherwise wonder -- if lactate itself and its accumulation in the muscles or blood in any way inhibits performance?

And for what it's worth, I started thinking about this because of Warren and Andy's little discussion in the "test results" thread where they both repeatedly used the term "lactate clearance."
If I remember right, somewhere they tested the lactate affects directly by adding pure lactate into the blood. No decrease in performance, in those testing conditions at least.

But even I find it much more easier to talk and measure the lactate levels than e.g. mitochondria amounts or efficiencies.
 
Iktome said:
I'm pretty sure that's not quite all of it.

Lactate is indeed an energy source, but not in the muscles that you are using at that moment to produce near- or above-sustainable power. Once the lactate gets into the blood, it will be used by various organs and non-working skeletal muscle.
I don't think this is true. With all due respect.

The pyruvic acid combines with ammonia to form the protein alanine. Alanine is then trnsported to the liver, where it can be converted to glucose and stored as glycogen or poured back into bloodstream and carried to the muscles to be used or energy. (Weicker et al.)

Glucose-alanine cycles has been estimated to supply between 10 and 15 percent of the total energy requirement during training (McArdle, Katch, & Katch)

Studies suggest that the conversion of glucose to alanine is a trainable response.

Brooks and Fahey (1984) reported an increased use of alanine after training. Activity of the major enyme that regulates this reaction, alanine tranaminase, was also found to increase with training (Mole, Baldwin, Terjung, & Holloszy).

(Sorry, no link, that is printed documentation)

In my opinion, this is lactate utilisation, aimed at providing energy, for the whole body, not just inactive muscles.

*edit* It is interesting that this is not a new concept. It has been outlined in scientific litterature back in late '70s I think. At that point, lactic acid was believed by many, to be the cause of acidosis.
 
Woofer said:
methodology that Guy Thibault calls an unscrupulous way to for sports scientists to earn money, i.e. lactate threshold ramp tests == snake oil.

Wow...interesting!