J
S
Sorni
Guest
JBIthaca wrote:
> Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> held up?
My "best bibs" are an older pair of Ultras. Unfortunately, they changed the
material last year to something stretchier and slipperier (fun making up
words), and I don't care for it nearly as much. YMMV.
They hold up fine.
Bill S.
> Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> held up?
My "best bibs" are an older pair of Ultras. Unfortunately, they changed the
material last year to something stretchier and slipperier (fun making up
words), and I don't care for it nearly as much. YMMV.
They hold up fine.
Bill S.
P
(PeteCresswell)
Guest
Per JBIthaca:
>Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
>held up?
If you mean bib vs regular, I'd say they each work for different situations.
I've both and, after an initial period of liking the bibs because they cradle my
gut fat instead of having it hang over a waistband, I've gone back to the
regular shorts most of the time. The reason for me is heat/comfort. Unless
it's pretty cold, the extra material of the bib shorts feels uncomfortably warm.
It's probably not a global overheating issue - just the wrong thing in the wrong
place at the wrong time.
--
PeteCresswell
>Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
>held up?
If you mean bib vs regular, I'd say they each work for different situations.
I've both and, after an initial period of liking the bibs because they cradle my
gut fat instead of having it hang over a waistband, I've gone back to the
regular shorts most of the time. The reason for me is heat/comfort. Unless
it's pretty cold, the extra material of the bib shorts feels uncomfortably warm.
It's probably not a global overheating issue - just the wrong thing in the wrong
place at the wrong time.
--
PeteCresswell
J
john
Guest
JBIthaca wrote:
>Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
held up?
I started shopping at Performance in the mid '80s when they 1st opened
their Santa Monica store. Since then I have never purchased one of the
Performance brand of clothing that has been satisfactory. I have
occasionally been tempted by a piece of clothing - great price, just
what I need, etc. & bought it (I don't learn very fast sometimes) only
to be sorely disappointed, until ~1995. Perhaps they have changed, but
I doubt it. And I'm not going to find out. I'll buy brand names there
if the price is right.
Good luck, John
>Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
held up?
I started shopping at Performance in the mid '80s when they 1st opened
their Santa Monica store. Since then I have never purchased one of the
Performance brand of clothing that has been satisfactory. I have
occasionally been tempted by a piece of clothing - great price, just
what I need, etc. & bought it (I don't learn very fast sometimes) only
to be sorely disappointed, until ~1995. Perhaps they have changed, but
I doubt it. And I'm not going to find out. I'll buy brand names there
if the price is right.
Good luck, John
C
cycledogg
Guest
JBIthaca wrote:
> Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> held up?
>
> Thanks,
>
> JBIthaca
Bibs for sure.
I use the Ultras and like-em.
Happy riding.........
> Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> held up?
>
> Thanks,
>
> JBIthaca
Bibs for sure.
I use the Ultras and like-em.
Happy riding.........
S
Scott
Guest
john wrote:
> JBIthaca wrote:
>
> >Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> held up?
>
> I started shopping at Performance in the mid '80s when they 1st opened
> their Santa Monica store. Since then I have never purchased one of the
> Performance brand of clothing that has been satisfactory. I have
> occasionally been tempted by a piece of clothing - great price, just
> what I need, etc. & bought it (I don't learn very fast sometimes) only
> to be sorely disappointed, until ~1995. Perhaps they have changed, but
> I doubt it. And I'm not going to find out. I'll buy brand names there
> if the price is right.
>
> Good luck, John
Good shorts, and good shoes, are well worth the extra money. Spend a
bit more in the beginning to get a better quality pair of shorts and
not only will you be happier with the fit/feel/etc... they'll last
longer, too.
In other words, while Performance brand shorts are inexpensive, they're
not a particularly good value.
> JBIthaca wrote:
>
> >Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> held up?
>
> I started shopping at Performance in the mid '80s when they 1st opened
> their Santa Monica store. Since then I have never purchased one of the
> Performance brand of clothing that has been satisfactory. I have
> occasionally been tempted by a piece of clothing - great price, just
> what I need, etc. & bought it (I don't learn very fast sometimes) only
> to be sorely disappointed, until ~1995. Perhaps they have changed, but
> I doubt it. And I'm not going to find out. I'll buy brand names there
> if the price is right.
>
> Good luck, John
Good shorts, and good shoes, are well worth the extra money. Spend a
bit more in the beginning to get a better quality pair of shorts and
not only will you be happier with the fit/feel/etc... they'll last
longer, too.
In other words, while Performance brand shorts are inexpensive, they're
not a particularly good value.
J
Jeff Starr
Guest
On 2 Mar 2006 10:39:31 -0800, "JBIthaca" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
>held up?
>
>Thanks,
>
>JBIthaca
Hi, I use a variety of Performance shorts, and jerseys. All have been
decent quality, very good value for money, when purchased on sale.
I'm a member of Team Performance and it only takes a few orderd to be
ahead.
I had one problem with a pair of the gel pad shorts, the seam on the
bottom of the leg let go. I returned them, after having them for a
number of months and they sent me a new pair.
I like the Ultras, but prefer the gel chamois. I'd say, give them a
try.
Life is Good!
Jeff
>Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
>held up?
>
>Thanks,
>
>JBIthaca
Hi, I use a variety of Performance shorts, and jerseys. All have been
decent quality, very good value for money, when purchased on sale.
I'm a member of Team Performance and it only takes a few orderd to be
ahead.
I had one problem with a pair of the gel pad shorts, the seam on the
bottom of the leg let go. I returned them, after having them for a
number of months and they sent me a new pair.
I like the Ultras, but prefer the gel chamois. I'd say, give them a
try.
Life is Good!
Jeff
E
Earl Bollinger
Guest
"JBIthaca" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> held up?
>
> Thanks,
>
> JBIthaca
>
Yes I have both. Although the bibs are great when it is cooler they do tend
to run hotter though. The shorts are cooler when it is hot out.
Bibs are neat in that it keeps the waistband from rolling down on you, if
you have that body shape.
The major disadvantage of bibs, is if you have to go to the bathroom, you
pretty much have to strip down most of the way to do your business.
That is especially difficult when you are trying to use a portapottie out
someplace. Not counting the yucky factor either.
I also do not like the gel versions as the gel pad is too thick and it
tends to bunch up on you causing discomfort.
news:[email protected]...
> Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> held up?
>
> Thanks,
>
> JBIthaca
>
Yes I have both. Although the bibs are great when it is cooler they do tend
to run hotter though. The shorts are cooler when it is hot out.
Bibs are neat in that it keeps the waistband from rolling down on you, if
you have that body shape.
The major disadvantage of bibs, is if you have to go to the bathroom, you
pretty much have to strip down most of the way to do your business.
That is especially difficult when you are trying to use a portapottie out
someplace. Not counting the yucky factor either.
I also do not like the gel versions as the gel pad is too thick and it
tends to bunch up on you causing discomfort.
L
landotter
Guest
For what it's worth, I've got a pair of their former top-o-the line
(for Performance at least
) that I bought 7 years ago. I'd say I've
got three years of actually riding in them and am flabbergasted at the
quality of the shorts. Not Pearl Izumi mind, but the lycra is really
heavy weight and they look to be able to go another three years. A
great value.
(for Performance at least
) that I bought 7 years ago. I'd say I'vegot three years of actually riding in them and am flabbergasted at the
quality of the shorts. Not Pearl Izumi mind, but the lycra is really
heavy weight and they look to be able to go another three years. A
great value.
M
Michael Press
Guest
In article
<[email protected]>,
"Earl Bollinger" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "JBIthaca" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> > held up?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > JBIthaca
> >
>
> Yes I have both. Although the bibs are great when it is cooler they do tend
> to run hotter though. The shorts are cooler when it is hot out.
> Bibs are neat in that it keeps the waistband from rolling down on you, if
> you have that body shape.
> The major disadvantage of bibs, is if you have to go to the bathroom, you
> pretty much have to strip down most of the way to do your business.
> That is especially difficult when you are trying to use a portapottie out
> someplace. Not counting the yucky factor either.
The bibs I have are hemmed at the navel; the elastic
material can be pulled down in front without shifting the
straps.
[...]
--
Michael Press
<[email protected]>,
"Earl Bollinger" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "JBIthaca" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> > held up?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > JBIthaca
> >
>
> Yes I have both. Although the bibs are great when it is cooler they do tend
> to run hotter though. The shorts are cooler when it is hot out.
> Bibs are neat in that it keeps the waistband from rolling down on you, if
> you have that body shape.
> The major disadvantage of bibs, is if you have to go to the bathroom, you
> pretty much have to strip down most of the way to do your business.
> That is especially difficult when you are trying to use a portapottie out
> someplace. Not counting the yucky factor either.
The bibs I have are hemmed at the navel; the elastic
material can be pulled down in front without shifting the
straps.
[...]
--
Michael Press
J
Jay Beattie
Guest
Scott wrote:
> john wrote:
> > JBIthaca wrote:
> >
> > >Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> > held up?
> >
> > I started shopping at Performance in the mid '80s when they 1st opened
> > their Santa Monica store. Since then I have never purchased one of the
> > Performance brand of clothing that has been satisfactory. I have
> > occasionally been tempted by a piece of clothing - great price, just
> > what I need, etc. & bought it (I don't learn very fast sometimes) only
> > to be sorely disappointed, until ~1995. Perhaps they have changed, but
> > I doubt it. And I'm not going to find out. I'll buy brand names there
> > if the price is right.
> >
> > Good luck, John
>
> Good shorts, and good shoes, are well worth the extra money. Spend a
> bit more in the beginning to get a better quality pair of shorts and
> not only will you be happier with the fit/feel/etc... they'll last
> longer, too.
Not necessarily true. My cheap-o Nashbar tights are outliving my Pearl
Izumis. Price is no guaranty of quality.
>
> In other words, while Performance brand shorts are inexpensive, they're
> not a particularly good value.
I have three pairs of Performance bibs -- the standard synthetic padded
chamoise (not gel), and they are comfortable; they fit, and they have
held up well. They are not mega-buck Assos, but they are not ****. Well
worth the price, particularly on sale.
> john wrote:
> > JBIthaca wrote:
> >
> > >Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
> > held up?
> >
> > I started shopping at Performance in the mid '80s when they 1st opened
> > their Santa Monica store. Since then I have never purchased one of the
> > Performance brand of clothing that has been satisfactory. I have
> > occasionally been tempted by a piece of clothing - great price, just
> > what I need, etc. & bought it (I don't learn very fast sometimes) only
> > to be sorely disappointed, until ~1995. Perhaps they have changed, but
> > I doubt it. And I'm not going to find out. I'll buy brand names there
> > if the price is right.
> >
> > Good luck, John
>
> Good shorts, and good shoes, are well worth the extra money. Spend a
> bit more in the beginning to get a better quality pair of shorts and
> not only will you be happier with the fit/feel/etc... they'll last
> longer, too.
Not necessarily true. My cheap-o Nashbar tights are outliving my Pearl
Izumis. Price is no guaranty of quality.
>
> In other words, while Performance brand shorts are inexpensive, they're
> not a particularly good value.
I have three pairs of Performance bibs -- the standard synthetic padded
chamoise (not gel), and they are comfortable; they fit, and they have
held up well. They are not mega-buck Assos, but they are not ****. Well
worth the price, particularly on sale.
P
Paul Kopit
Guest
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:03:01 GMT, "Sorni" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>My "best bibs" are an older pair of Ultras. Unfortunately, they changed the
>material last year to something stretchier and slipperier (fun making up
>words), and I don't care for it nearly as much. YMMV.
They also cut the waistband higher. You can pull them above your
belly and the don't slip down. The inseam is longer.
wrote:
>My "best bibs" are an older pair of Ultras. Unfortunately, they changed the
>material last year to something stretchier and slipperier (fun making up
>words), and I don't care for it nearly as much. YMMV.
They also cut the waistband higher. You can pull them above your
belly and the don't slip down. The inseam is longer.
A
Jay Beattie wrote:
> I have three pairs of Performance bibs -- the standard synthetic padded
> chamoise (not gel), and they are comfortable; they fit, and they have
> held up well. They are not mega-buck Assos, but they are not ****. Well
> worth the price, particularly on sale.
I've been pretty happy with some Performance shorts too. Which chamois
is in your favorites? The Monolith shown at the top of the Chamois
Gallery here?
http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/
Yes, I'm a little obsessed with shorts and my crotch's comfort...
> I have three pairs of Performance bibs -- the standard synthetic padded
> chamoise (not gel), and they are comfortable; they fit, and they have
> held up well. They are not mega-buck Assos, but they are not ****. Well
> worth the price, particularly on sale.
I've been pretty happy with some Performance shorts too. Which chamois
is in your favorites? The Monolith shown at the top of the Chamois
Gallery here?
http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/
Yes, I'm a little obsessed with shorts and my crotch's comfort...
S
Sorni
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> I've been pretty happy with some Performance shorts too. Which chamois
> is in your favorites? The Monolith shown at the top of the Chamois
> Gallery here?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/
>
> Yes, I'm a little obsessed with shorts and my crotch's comfort...
A) They (chamois, not crotches) all look alike; and
B) Too much information!!!
Bill "any pad but gel for me" S.
> I've been pretty happy with some Performance shorts too. Which chamois
> is in your favorites? The Monolith shown at the top of the Chamois
> Gallery here?
>
> http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/
>
> Yes, I'm a little obsessed with shorts and my crotch's comfort...
A) They (chamois, not crotches) all look alike; and
B) Too much information!!!
Bill "any pad but gel for me" S.
J
Jay Beattie
Guest
Sorni wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I've been pretty happy with some Performance shorts too. Which chamois
> > is in your favorites? The Monolith shown at the top of the Chamois
> > Gallery here?
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/
> >
> > Yes, I'm a little obsessed with shorts and my crotch's comfort...
>
> A) They (chamois, not crotches) all look alike; and
>
> B) Too much information!!!
>
> Bill "any pad but gel for me" S.
I can live with gel, but it usually feels like I have a full diaper. I
like something a bit thinner. Chamois seams are a big issue for me --
as well as bulky seams anywhere on the short. These can really chafe.
Material weight also is important because I tend to wear holes at the
inside of the thigh real fast on some light weight shorts and tights.
By the way, I am not prepared to say that the Performance shorts are
better than some mega buck short because I have never owned mega buck
shorts -- in 30 years of buying shorts. I am not going to pay $150+
for a pair of shorts, sorry. I can say that the Performance bibs are
way better than my old team issued Aussi bibs that about cut me in
half. I had to slice the suspenders and splice in extensions and wore
them only when racing (grudgingly). -- Jay Beattie.
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I've been pretty happy with some Performance shorts too. Which chamois
> > is in your favorites? The Monolith shown at the top of the Chamois
> > Gallery here?
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/
> >
> > Yes, I'm a little obsessed with shorts and my crotch's comfort...
>
> A) They (chamois, not crotches) all look alike; and
>
> B) Too much information!!!
>
> Bill "any pad but gel for me" S.
I can live with gel, but it usually feels like I have a full diaper. I
like something a bit thinner. Chamois seams are a big issue for me --
as well as bulky seams anywhere on the short. These can really chafe.
Material weight also is important because I tend to wear holes at the
inside of the thigh real fast on some light weight shorts and tights.
By the way, I am not prepared to say that the Performance shorts are
better than some mega buck short because I have never owned mega buck
shorts -- in 30 years of buying shorts. I am not going to pay $150+
for a pair of shorts, sorry. I can say that the Performance bibs are
way better than my old team issued Aussi bibs that about cut me in
half. I had to slice the suspenders and splice in extensions and wore
them only when racing (grudgingly). -- Jay Beattie.
L
landotter
Guest
Jay Beattie wrote:
> I can live with gel, but it usually feels like I have a full diaper. I
> like something a bit thinner.
That's why I keep hangin' on to my older Performance shorts with the
"hydroflo" chamois. Not really gel but some substance sandwiched
between plastic that is slipperier the harder you press. So not really
padded shorts as much as chafe prevention shorts.
I've looked at shorts in the store and all the ones I've seen gross me
out. The new chamois covers are nice, but the thickness reminds me of
just that, a diaper with a load in it. Are any of the affordable
Nashbar/Performance shorts any thinner these days, or has everything
gone the way of the infintilism fetishist?
> I can live with gel, but it usually feels like I have a full diaper. I
> like something a bit thinner.
That's why I keep hangin' on to my older Performance shorts with the
"hydroflo" chamois. Not really gel but some substance sandwiched
between plastic that is slipperier the harder you press. So not really
padded shorts as much as chafe prevention shorts.
I've looked at shorts in the store and all the ones I've seen gross me
out. The new chamois covers are nice, but the thickness reminds me of
just that, a diaper with a load in it. Are any of the affordable
Nashbar/Performance shorts any thinner these days, or has everything
gone the way of the infintilism fetishist?
A
landotter wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
>
> I've looked at shorts in the store and all the ones I've seen gross me
> out. The new chamois covers are nice, but the thickness reminds me of
> just that, a diaper with a load in it. Are any of the affordable
> Nashbar/Performance shorts any thinner these days, or has everything
> gone the way of the infintilism fetishist?
I agree, too thick is not good. The thinnest chamois listed (as far as
I can tell) are also available in the less expensive shorts.
The top two chaois listed in the gallery (
http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/ ) are seamless,
and not too thick.
> Jay Beattie wrote:
>
> I've looked at shorts in the store and all the ones I've seen gross me
> out. The new chamois covers are nice, but the thickness reminds me of
> just that, a diaper with a load in it. Are any of the affordable
> Nashbar/Performance shorts any thinner these days, or has everything
> gone the way of the infintilism fetishist?
I agree, too thick is not good. The thinnest chamois listed (as far as
I can tell) are also available in the less expensive shorts.
The top two chaois listed in the gallery (
http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/ ) are seamless,
and not too thick.
L
landotter
Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> landotter wrote:
> > Jay Beattie wrote:
> >
> > I've looked at shorts in the store and all the ones I've seen gross me
> > out. The new chamois covers are nice, but the thickness reminds me of
> > just that, a diaper with a load in it. Are any of the affordable
> > Nashbar/Performance shorts any thinner these days, or has everything
> > gone the way of the infintilism fetishist?
>
> I agree, too thick is not good. The thinnest chamois listed (as far as
> I can tell) are also available in the less expensive shorts.
>
> The top two chaois listed in the gallery (
> http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/ ) are seamless,
> and not too thick.
Wow, that's a great site! Looks like the liquicell are very similar to
the old Performance Hydroflos. It also seems that the bibs tend to have
thinner padding, probably as they're usually bought by more experienced
riders.
> landotter wrote:
> > Jay Beattie wrote:
> >
> > I've looked at shorts in the store and all the ones I've seen gross me
> > out. The new chamois covers are nice, but the thickness reminds me of
> > just that, a diaper with a load in it. Are any of the affordable
> > Nashbar/Performance shorts any thinner these days, or has everything
> > gone the way of the infintilism fetishist?
>
> I agree, too thick is not good. The thinnest chamois listed (as far as
> I can tell) are also available in the less expensive shorts.
>
> The top two chaois listed in the gallery (
> http://www.geocities.com/almost_fast/shorts/chamois/ ) are seamless,
> and not too thick.
Wow, that's a great site! Looks like the liquicell are very similar to
the old Performance Hydroflos. It also seems that the bibs tend to have
thinner padding, probably as they're usually bought by more experienced
riders.
E
Earl Bollinger
Guest
"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> "Earl Bollinger" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "JBIthaca" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
>> > held up?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > JBIthaca
>> >
>>
>> Yes I have both. Although the bibs are great when it is cooler they do
>> tend
>> to run hotter though. The shorts are cooler when it is hot out.
>> Bibs are neat in that it keeps the waistband from rolling down on you, if
>> you have that body shape.
>> The major disadvantage of bibs, is if you have to go to the bathroom, you
>> pretty much have to strip down most of the way to do your business.
>> That is especially difficult when you are trying to use a portapottie out
>> someplace. Not counting the yucky factor either.
>
> The bibs I have are hemmed at the navel; the elastic
> material can be pulled down in front without shifting the
> straps.
>
> [...]
>
> --
> Michael Press
I was trying to be polite, how about taking a "dump" or "****" out on an
organized ride with 7000 fellow cyclists with hundreds of others all trying
to use the same overused dirty messy portapotties as you are. Bibs do not
work very well in that case.
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> "Earl Bollinger" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "JBIthaca" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Do any of you use these shorts? Are they comfortable? How have they
>> > held up?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > JBIthaca
>> >
>>
>> Yes I have both. Although the bibs are great when it is cooler they do
>> tend
>> to run hotter though. The shorts are cooler when it is hot out.
>> Bibs are neat in that it keeps the waistband from rolling down on you, if
>> you have that body shape.
>> The major disadvantage of bibs, is if you have to go to the bathroom, you
>> pretty much have to strip down most of the way to do your business.
>> That is especially difficult when you are trying to use a portapottie out
>> someplace. Not counting the yucky factor either.
>
> The bibs I have are hemmed at the navel; the elastic
> material can be pulled down in front without shifting the
> straps.
>
> [...]
>
> --
> Michael Press
I was trying to be polite, how about taking a "dump" or "****" out on an
organized ride with 7000 fellow cyclists with hundreds of others all trying
to use the same overused dirty messy portapotties as you are. Bibs do not
work very well in that case.
M
Mike Reed
Guest
I've been riding in Performance shorts for 15 years. I buy whatever is
around $30-$35 in a given catalog. They last a long time and have
always been comfortable.
One year I bought a couple pair of Pearl Izumis for $70 each. They were
super comfortable in the store, mediocre on the bike, and wore out in a
huge hurry. I thought they might get more comfortable as I got used to
them, but they never did. Big waste of money.
I'll never spend more than $35 on shorts again (though I will probably
try some bibs soon, for slightly more).
Performance has my vote.
Now as far as shoes go... I'll agree to spend 'til it hurts. I've had
two pairs of Sidis (road and mountain) last me 10 years each. They fit
like socks and last for a career.
around $30-$35 in a given catalog. They last a long time and have
always been comfortable.
One year I bought a couple pair of Pearl Izumis for $70 each. They were
super comfortable in the store, mediocre on the bike, and wore out in a
huge hurry. I thought they might get more comfortable as I got used to
them, but they never did. Big waste of money.
I'll never spend more than $35 on shorts again (though I will probably
try some bibs soon, for slightly more).
Performance has my vote.
Now as far as shoes go... I'll agree to spend 'til it hurts. I've had
two pairs of Sidis (road and mountain) last me 10 years each. They fit
like socks and last for a career.
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