General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Paul Saunders

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
1 September 2004
Last activity
27 October 2004
Original author
David Gibbins
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  1. Paul Saunders said:
    Mark South said:
    Quoted message said:

    Damn! I've been sussed!

    Nah, nobody would believe a website that crappy would be yours.

    Well thanks for the vote of confidence.

    wotcher therealpaulsaunders; t'was easy to spot that site wasn't
    anything to do with you... the size of the jpeg on the index page for
    starters, plus I reckon you don't do cheese as per that site's
    content. Not sure how to classify "those shorts", but "cheese" isn't
    it ;-)

    SteveO

    NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
    http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

    NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

  2. Phil Cook said:

    Sod off Saunders! We don't want the same old argument about the
    seasons again.

    Sorry Phil, it was a rhetorical question, not my intention to start that
    one up again. It was just in my head because of the weather forecaster
    calling it autumn yesterday.

    Quoted message said:

    Haven't you though of anyting new to say while you have
    been away?

    For the last month I've been trying very hard not to think of new things
    to say.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  3. David Gibbins said:

    If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly suggest a Brecon
    Beacons walk?

    What sort of distance do you want to do?

    Quoted message said:

    I've worked out
    I need to do the Pen-y-Fan Horseshoe but will have time for one more.
    Staying near Libanus.

    Which Pen y Fan horseshoe do you mean? From the north (Cwm Gwdi) or the
    south (Neauadd Reservoirs)? I presume the north. The northern approach
    is more dramatic scenically, but the southern approach involves a more
    high ridge walking next to steep cliffs.

    You are planning to include Cribyn aren't you? Give me some more
    details on the walk you plan to do.

    The Ultimate Beacons Walk

    Although the northern approach is more dramatic, I'd say that the best
    Beacons walk (if you want to take in all the main summits) is as
    follows. Be warned that's it's 13 miles with around 1200 metres of
    ascent, a bit too much for me at the moment, but if you feel up to it
    I'd recommend it.

    Park at the bridge over Caerfanell, SO 063170. Follow the river
    northwest, then north, past the waterfalls. A nice scenic easy start.
    (Alternatively, if you fancy an energetic start, head NNE straight up to
    the summit of Allt Forgan, a lovely little hill and a great viewpoint.)

    When you reach the end of the forest, turn east up out of the valley and
    cross Waun y Gorlan (try to avoid the bogs if you can), then ascend NNE
    up to the ridge. Follow the western edge of Cwar y Gigfran, passing
    above the plane wreck memorial, then head north to Waun Rydd. This is
    the first major summit, a Marilyn, but the least interesting since it's
    just a high point on a flat grassy plateau. There was nothing marking
    it last time I was there so you may have trouble determining exactly
    where the top is. A GPS would be helpful here.

    Head west past the insignificant Nuttall of Gwaun Cerrrig Llwydion
    (which they incorrectly call Bwlch y Ddwywallt - that's the name of the
    bwlch, i.e. the col, not the summit! Doh!) and then follow the
    excellent Craig Cwareli ridge until you reach Fan y Big, a superb
    viewpoint. Apart from the initial ascent, the walking has been very
    easy up to this point.

    Head west downhill to the col, then ascend Cribyn, which gives the best
    view of Pen y Fan. You could take the Cribyn "bypass" to avoid this
    summit but it's well worth climbing. After the descent you then climb
    to Pen y Fan. This is the last steep ascent.

    After quickly nipping over to Corn Du, you then head south, following
    the edges of Craig Gwaun Taf and Graig Fan Ddu, crossing the "blunt"
    knife-edge ridge of Rhiw yr Ysgyfarnog in the process. These ridges can
    be very muddy and boggy after a lot of rain.

    At SO 019182 (where the cairn is marked on the map), descend east. This
    bit is quite steep, but well worn. Cross the southern reservoir and the
    rest is easy.

    After a short road walk, turn SE to follow the disused railway through
    the Taf Fechan forest, then there's another short road walk up over the
    col. Turn left into the car park then follow the stream ESE back down
    to the river (there is a path of sorts, if you can find it), then follow
    the river back to the car.

    This walk can of course be done clockwise or anti-clockwise, your
    preference, and can be started from a few different points, the Neuadd
    Reservoirs for example.

    Most of the route is pretty straightforward but there are a few possible
    variations on the eastern edge of it, like the Allt Forgan ascent I
    mentioned. Another variation is to contour east past Gwalciau'r Cwm
    around Craig Pwllfa and the big cairn, instead of following Cwar y
    Gigfran. Another possibility is to follow Caerfanell all the way to
    it's source. I came down this way once in the winter and had great fun
    scrambling down next to the small frozen waterfalls.

    The best variation though, which cuts out some distance and ascent, yet
    still gives great ridge walking, is to park at SO 056175, then head
    north directly up to Craig y Fan Ddu, then follow Graig Fan Las NNE to
    the col before turning west to follow the Craig Cwareli ridge. Don't be
    tempted to take a shortcut across the moorland of Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion,
    the ridge walking is much easier and the extra distance is more than
    compensated for by the excellent views. At the col you have the option
    of walking an extra kilometre to Waun Rydd and back if you really feel
    the need to bag it.

    If you think the distance is too much for one day, you could split that
    walk up into two, east and west, so those would be your two walks.

    Alternatively, for a second walk you could go to the obvious place and
    bag the eastern Fforest Fawr summits just SW of Libanus, namely Fan
    Frynych, Craig Cerrig Gleisiad, Fan Llia and Fan Fawr. Very little in
    the way of cliff edge walking, but loads of bleak empty wilderness and
    solitude. Very little in the way of paths either, this is mostly wild,
    trackless land that few people visit, thus making a nice change to the
    bustle of nearby Pen y Fan. The northern end of the Afon Dringarth is a
    good area for wild camping if you like solitude.

    It's not a huge area to get lost in, but without paths, you'll need
    reasonable navigation skills and/or a GPS in the event of bad
    visibility. I've had some fun night walking around this area.

    If you want something more dramatic, then head west to Mynydd Du and do
    Fan Brycheiniog and the escarpment. I'm sure I've written plenty about
    this in the past. Check out my trip report from a few months ago if you
    can find it.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, and great 'photos on the wedding site - way above your usual
    standard!

    :-)

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  4. SteveO said:

    wotcher therealpaulsaunders; t'was easy to spot that site wasn't
    anything to do with you... the size of the jpeg on the index page for
    starters,

    Yeah, that's a giveaway...

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  5. SteveO said:

    wotcher therealpaulsaunders; t'was easy to spot that site wasn't
    anything to do with you... the size of the jpeg on the index page for
    starters,

    Yeah, that's a giveaway...

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  6. Tim Jackson said:

    A few months ago I did a variation on this variation.

    Interesting, I've never used those paths. I must try that sometime.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  7. Paul Saunders wrote on Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:49:15 +0100....

    Quoted message said:

    Park at the bridge over Caerfanell, SO 063170. Follow the river
    northwest, then north, past the waterfalls. A nice scenic easy start.
    (Alternatively, if you fancy an energetic start, head NNE straight up to
    the summit of Allt Forgan, a lovely little hill and a great viewpoint.)

    When you reach the end of the forest, turn east up out of the valley and
    cross Waun y Gorlan (try to avoid the bogs if you can), then ascend NNE
    up to the ridge. Follow the western edge of Cwar y Gigfran, passing
    above the plane wreck memorial, then head north to Waun Rydd.

    Rather than parking at the lower car park at SO 063170, is it possible
    to start this route from the upper car park at SO 056175? Or would
    that entail dropping down and then climbing back up again by the
    Caerfanell? There's a forestry track marked on the map which rises
    gently NE from the upper car park, but it looks as if it stops before
    it gets to the NE corner of the forest.

    --
    Tim Jackson
    [email hidden]
    (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
    Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

  8. Thanks for that , Paul - excellent.

    Your 'Ultimate walk' looks the one if the weather permits and my companions
    are feeling up to it (and if I am)!

    I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the obelisk
    heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and heading NE
    to drop back down into the valley and head backW to Libanus. Is that not the
    'horseshoe'/

    Anyway, you've given me some great options - thanks again.

    David

    "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    David Gibbins said:

    If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly suggest a Brecon
    Beacons walk?

    What sort of distance do you want to do?

    Quoted message said:

    I've worked out
    I need to do the Pen-y-Fan Horseshoe but will have time for one more.
    Staying near Libanus.

    Which Pen y Fan horseshoe do you mean? From the north (Cwm Gwdi) or the
    south (Neauadd Reservoirs)? I presume the north. The northern approach
    is more dramatic scenically, but the southern approach involves a more
    high ridge walking next to steep cliffs.

    You are planning to include Cribyn aren't you? Give me some more
    details on the walk you plan to do.

    The Ultimate Beacons Walk

    Although the northern approach is more dramatic, I'd say that the best
    Beacons walk (if you want to take in all the main summits) is as
    follows. Be warned that's it's 13 miles with around 1200 metres of
    ascent, a bit too much for me at the moment, but if you feel up to it
    I'd recommend it.

    Park at the bridge over Caerfanell, SO 063170. Follow the river
    northwest, then north, past the waterfalls. A nice scenic easy start.
    (Alternatively, if you fancy an energetic start, head NNE straight up to
    the summit of Allt Forgan, a lovely little hill and a great viewpoint.)

    When you reach the end of the forest, turn east up out of the valley and
    cross Waun y Gorlan (try to avoid the bogs if you can), then ascend NNE
    up to the ridge. Follow the western edge of Cwar y Gigfran, passing
    above the plane wreck memorial, then head north to Waun Rydd. This is
    the first major summit, a Marilyn, but the least interesting since it's
    just a high point on a flat grassy plateau. There was nothing marking
    it last time I was there so you may have trouble determining exactly
    where the top is. A GPS would be helpful here.

    Head west past the insignificant Nuttall of Gwaun Cerrrig Llwydion
    (which they incorrectly call Bwlch y Ddwywallt - that's the name of the
    bwlch, i.e. the col, not the summit! Doh!) and then follow the
    excellent Craig Cwareli ridge until you reach Fan y Big, a superb
    viewpoint. Apart from the initial ascent, the walking has been very
    easy up to this point.

    Head west downhill to the col, then ascend Cribyn, which gives the best
    view of Pen y Fan. You could take the Cribyn "bypass" to avoid this
    summit but it's well worth climbing. After the descent you then climb
    to Pen y Fan. This is the last steep ascent.

    After quickly nipping over to Corn Du, you then head south, following
    the edges of Craig Gwaun Taf and Graig Fan Ddu, crossing the "blunt"
    knife-edge ridge of Rhiw yr Ysgyfarnog in the process. These ridges can
    be very muddy and boggy after a lot of rain.

    At SO 019182 (where the cairn is marked on the map), descend east. This
    bit is quite steep, but well worn. Cross the southern reservoir and the
    rest is easy.

    After a short road walk, turn SE to follow the disused railway through
    the Taf Fechan forest, then there's another short road walk up over the
    col. Turn left into the car park then follow the stream ESE back down
    to the river (there is a path of sorts, if you can find it), then follow
    the river back to the car.

    This walk can of course be done clockwise or anti-clockwise, your
    preference, and can be started from a few different points, the Neuadd
    Reservoirs for example.

    Most of the route is pretty straightforward but there are a few possible
    variations on the eastern edge of it, like the Allt Forgan ascent I
    mentioned. Another variation is to contour east past Gwalciau'r Cwm
    around Craig Pwllfa and the big cairn, instead of following Cwar y
    Gigfran. Another possibility is to follow Caerfanell all the way to
    it's source. I came down this way once in the winter and had great fun
    scrambling down next to the small frozen waterfalls.

    The best variation though, which cuts out some distance and ascent, yet
    still gives great ridge walking, is to park at SO 056175, then head
    north directly up to Craig y Fan Ddu, then follow Graig Fan Las NNE to
    the col before turning west to follow the Craig Cwareli ridge. Don't be
    tempted to take a shortcut across the moorland of Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion,
    the ridge walking is much easier and the extra distance is more than
    compensated for by the excellent views. At the col you have the option
    of walking an extra kilometre to Waun Rydd and back if you really feel
    the need to bag it.

    If you think the distance is too much for one day, you could split that
    walk up into two, east and west, so those would be your two walks.

    Alternatively, for a second walk you could go to the obvious place and
    bag the eastern Fforest Fawr summits just SW of Libanus, namely Fan
    Frynych, Craig Cerrig Gleisiad, Fan Llia and Fan Fawr. Very little in
    the way of cliff edge walking, but loads of bleak empty wilderness and
    solitude. Very little in the way of paths either, this is mostly wild,
    trackless land that few people visit, thus making a nice change to the
    bustle of nearby Pen y Fan. The northern end of the Afon Dringarth is a
    good area for wild camping if you like solitude.

    It's not a huge area to get lost in, but without paths, you'll need
    reasonable navigation skills and/or a GPS in the event of bad
    visibility. I've had some fun night walking around this area.

    If you want something more dramatic, then head west to Mynydd Du and do
    Fan Brycheiniog and the escarpment. I'm sure I've written plenty about
    this in the past. Check out my trip report from a few months ago if you
    can find it.

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, and great 'photos on the wedding site - way above your usual
    standard!

    :-)

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  9. Tim Jackson said:

    Rather than parking at the lower car park at SO 063170, is it possible
    to start this route from the upper car park at SO 056175?

    You could.

    Quoted message said:

    Or would
    that entail dropping down and then climbing back up again by the
    Caerfanell?

    It would.

    Quoted message said:

    There's a forestry track marked on the map which rises
    gently NE from the upper car park, but it looks as if it stops before
    it gets to the NE corner of the forest.

    I've often wondered about that, but I haven't tried it. All scales of
    map confirm that it stops, even Harveys.

    I recall looking at it from Allt Forgan a few years back and I think the
    forest had been recently cleared at the time, so it may have been
    navigable, but I'm not sure what the current state is. I'm pretty sure
    I took a photograph for later study but I've had a quick look and can't
    find it without a longer search.

    The reason I suggested starting from the lower car park is because the
    walk up the river past the waterfalls is rather good. No need to be so
    obsessed with the summit bagging to miss the waterfalls. I know it
    means extra ascent but I think it's worth it. If summit bagging is more
    important then I'd recommend the steep ascent to Allt Forgan right at
    the beginning. You'd still pass many of the falls on the way back.

    If you really want to minimise the ascent then the Craig y Fan Ddu
    variation is better.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  10. David said:

    Your 'Ultimate walk' looks the one if the weather permits and my
    companions are feeling up to it (and if I am)!

    Start early and take your time over it. If it's a hot day don't forget
    to carry plenty of water, I made that mistake when I did it.

    Quoted message said:

    I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    heading NE
    to drop back down into the valley and head backW to Libanus. Is that
    not the 'horseshoe'/

    I don't think I've ever seen an official description, but I thought it
    started at Cwm Gwdi and followed the Cefn Cwm Llwch and Bryn Teg ridges,
    but I may be wrong. There are a few different possible "horseshoe"
    variations, it's not as clear cut as the Snowdon horseshoe for example.

    My own personal horseshoe always started from the south at the Neuadd
    Reservoirs, that's the route I've done most often, a shorter "western"
    version of the ultimate walk.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, you've given me some great options - thanks again.

    No problem. Any thoughts on Fforest Fawr or Mynydd Du?

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  11. Paul wrote:

    Any thoughts on Fforest Fawr or Mynydd Du?

    -

    Yes, I looked at the 'photos on your site. Spoilt for choice now!

    Fan Brycheiniog looks a strong possibility. Might have to try to squeeze in
    an extra day.

    David

  12. David Gibbins said:


    If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)

  13. "Simon Caldwell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    David Gibbins said:


    If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)

    Yes, it's all or nothing I'm afraid :-)

  14. Simon Caldwell <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    David Gibbins said:


    If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)

    :-)
    --
    Gordon

  15. No, he replied - see below

    ---
    "Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Simon Caldwell <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    David Gibbins said:


    If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)

    :-)
    --
    Gordon

    =====

    David said:

    Your 'Ultimate walk' looks the one if the weather permits and my
    companions are feeling up to it (and if I am)!

    Start early and take your time over it. If it's a hot day don't forget
    to carry plenty of water, I made that mistake when I did it.

    Quoted message said:

    I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    heading NE
    to drop back down into the valley and head backW to Libanus. Is that
    not the 'horseshoe'/

    I don't think I've ever seen an official description, but I thought it
    started at Cwm Gwdi and followed the Cefn Cwm Llwch and Bryn Teg ridges,
    but I may be wrong. There are a few different possible "horseshoe"
    variations, it's not as clear cut as the Snowdon horseshoe for example.

    My own personal horseshoe always started from the south at the Neuadd
    Reservoirs, that's the route I've done most often, a shorter "western"
    version of the ultimate walk.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, you've given me some great options - thanks again.

    No problem. Any thoughts on Fforest Fawr or Mynydd Du?

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  16. No, he replied - see below

    ---
    "Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Simon Caldwell <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    David Gibbins said:


    If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)

    :-)
    --
    Gordon

    =====

    David said:

    Your 'Ultimate walk' looks the one if the weather permits and my
    companions are feeling up to it (and if I am)!

    Start early and take your time over it. If it's a hot day don't forget
    to carry plenty of water, I made that mistake when I did it.

    Quoted message said:

    I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    heading NE
    to drop back down into the valley and head backW to Libanus. Is that
    not the 'horseshoe'/

    I don't think I've ever seen an official description, but I thought it
    started at Cwm Gwdi and followed the Cefn Cwm Llwch and Bryn Teg ridges,
    but I may be wrong. There are a few different possible "horseshoe"
    variations, it's not as clear cut as the Snowdon horseshoe for example.

    My own personal horseshoe always started from the south at the Neuadd
    Reservoirs, that's the route I've done most often, a shorter "western"
    version of the ultimate walk.

    Quoted message said:

    Anyway, you've given me some great options - thanks again.

    No problem. Any thoughts on Fforest Fawr or Mynydd Du?

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  17. In article <[email hidden]>, David
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    I don't think I've ever seen an official description, but I thought it
    started at Cwm Gwdi and followed the Cefn Cwm Llwch and Bryn Teg ridges,
    but I may be wrong.

    This sounds about right. Some lovely ridges there.
    --
    Bill Grey
    http://www.billboy.co.uk

  18. * The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
    * of violets, as David <[email hidden]> descended on a shaft
    * of golden sunlight, and announced:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    heading NE

    The 'obelisk' is marked a such on the map, but it's much more than that.
    When I went to investigate last year, it turned out to be a memorial to a
    lad (IIRC 5 years old - David Jones?) that got lost and died there. The
    memorial gives a moving account of the tradgedy.

    Regards: Jim Ford

  19. Jim Ford wrote on 4 Sep 2004 21:54:00 GMT....

    Quoted message said:

    David <[email hidden]>....

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    heading NE

    The 'obelisk' is marked a such on the map, but it's much more than that.
    When I went to investigate last year, it turned out to be a memorial to a
    lad (IIRC 5 years old - David Jones?) that got lost and died there. The
    memorial gives a moving account of the tradgedy.

    Tommy Jones.

    The inscription on the obelisk reads, "This obelisk marks the spot
    where the body of Tommy Jones, aged 5, was found. He lost his way
    between Cwm Llwch farm and the Login on the night of August 4th 1900.
    After an anxious search of 29 days his remains were discovered on
    September 1st. Erected by voluntary subscription."

    [From http://www.walkscene.co.uk/Wales/Brecons/Penyfan3zz.htm
    One of a number of references found by searching Google for "Tommy
    Jones Obelisk"]

    --
    Tim Jackson
    [email hidden]
    (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
    Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

  20. "Tim Jackson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Tommy Jones.

    The inscription on the obelisk reads, "This obelisk marks the spot
    where the body of Tommy Jones, aged 5, was found. He lost his way
    between Cwm Llwch farm and the Login on the night of August 4th 1900.
    After an anxious search of 29 days his remains were discovered on
    September 1st. Erected by voluntary subscription."

    [From http://www.walkscene.co.uk/Wales/Brecons/Penyfan3zz.htm
    One of a number of references found by searching Google for "Tommy
    Jones Obelisk"]

    --
    Tim Jackson

    Conjecture I know but it has been widely believed for many years now that
    the story, as related on the obelisk, is a falsehood.

    Tommy was visiting Cwm Llwch farm with his parents on a trip from the coal
    mining valleys when he disappeared. The farm and the Login are just a
    virtually level 400m apart. The spot where his body was eventually found is
    some 3k away, entailing a stiffish climb of some 450m over rough ground.
    Those that have climbed Pen y Fan from Cwm Llwch will appreciate what a pull
    for a lost 5 year old it must have been.

    He disappeared in good weather at the beginning of a relatively decent
    August, weatherwise, not in the depths of mid winter, and the hills were
    scoured by search parties before his body was eventually discovered at a
    spot that had been passed by some of these parties on numerous occasions.

    Wander away from the path leading to Llyn Cwm Llwch from the farm and at SO
    000228 you come across the remains of a military rifle range which was
    active from the Boer War until the end of WW1. There was a military
    encampment set up here during the summer months, when it was constantly
    manned, soldiers from the camp were actively involved in the search on a
    more or less daily basis. Yet Tommy's body remained undiscovered for the
    best part of a month.

    It is firmly believed that young Tommy was abducted by the proverbial
    "person or persons unknown" and his body eventually disposed of at the spot
    where the obelisk was originally located, closer to the edge of the ridge
    than where it is now.

    Absolutely no proof of course but the shadow of suspicion falls firmly on
    the occupants of the camp.

    --
    Gwyn
    Reply to:- urw(dot)mail(dot)gwyn(at)xoxy(dot)net

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