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Overtrousers

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
17 September 2007
Last activity
25 September 2007
Original author
Simon
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50
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  1. The message <[email hidden]>
    from Kate XXXXXX <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:

    Show her my contract:
    http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/KatePages/HowToGet/kate_dicey_contract.htm

    Quoted message said:

    After the initial consultation and design drawings, I do nothing until
    it is signed and the deposit paid.

    Quoted message said:

    --

    Fascinating! I like the contract, with one *glaring* exception! There is
    bloody little United Kingdom law to speak about, and NONE in the
    contract field! You need to contract according to the law of England and
    Wales (or, if you so chose, although you'd have to learn a whole new
    vocabulary to do so, according to the law of Scotland)!

    Don't take my / a stranger's word for it - talk to your solicitor!

    Richard

  2. Kate XXXXXX <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:
    Gordon H said:

    Kate XXXXXX <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    In my line of work as a professional sewist of custom clothing (and
    other stuff), I frequently come across the idea that having something
    run up by the local dressmaker is cheaper than buying it.


    My lady friend would understand where you're coming from!
    She is a very meticulous (amateur) dressmaker, and is frequently the
    victim of friends who want "a bit of an alteration doing", which can
    sometimes mean reconstructing a cheaply sewn dress or skirt.
    I tell her repeatedly that when they ask for work doing, she should
    check what is involved, and give them a quote, to be paid in cash.
    Unfortunately she is too timid with them.

    Show her my contract:
    http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/KatePages/HowToGet/kate_dicey_con
    tract.htm


    Thanks, I'll do that next time she is visiting me!

    Quoted message said:

    After the initial consultation and design drawings, I do nothing until
    it is signed and the deposit paid.


    Nowadays it is usually just a simple alteration required for a friend,
    but it can involve more work than the 'friend' realises, and if the
    friend doesn't drive, also includes delivery!

    I won't steal your contract, but it has given me a few ideas of an
    agreement I could fit on an A4 sheet, for her to present when anyone
    asks for a 'favour'. ;-)
    --
    Gordon H
    (Remove "Invalid" to reply)

  3. In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon H
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    I won't steal your contract, but it has given me a few ideas of an
    agreement I could fit on an A4 sheet, for her to present when anyone
    asks for a 'favour'. ;-)

    Just make sure you have a clause in there so she can't include you in
    the 'anyone' Gordon!!! :-)

    --

    Dominic Sexton

  4. "Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Simon said:

    I don't
    understand many peoples hang ups about them.

    Leg length isn't a standardised feature of either trousers or people.
    I, for example, have the opposite problem with relatively short legs and
    many trousers being too long for me. Lowe typically have relatively
    long limbs on their garments IME so you might see how their offerings
    work for you.

    I, too, have short legs. Overtrousers never seem to come in variable leg
    lengths (unlike normal trousers), and neither can they be "put up" (zips,
    fastners, etc). So my main gripe is that I can't find any that fit. That,
    and the constant rustling, of course.

  5. Richard Spencer said:

    The message <[email hidden]>
    from Kate XXXXXX <[email hidden]> contains these words:

    Quoted message said:

    Show her my contract:
    http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/KatePages/HowToGet/kate_dicey_contract.htm

    Quoted message said:

    After the initial consultation and design drawings, I do nothing until
    it is signed and the deposit paid.

    Quoted message said:

    --

    Fascinating! I like the contract, with one *glaring* exception! There is
    bloody little United Kingdom law to speak about, and NONE in the
    contract field! You need to contract according to the law of England and
    Wales (or, if you so chose, although you'd have to learn a whole new
    vocabulary to do so, according to the law of Scotland)!

    Don't take my / a stranger's word for it - talk to your solicitor!

    It was written with the help of a solicitor with many years experience
    in small business contracts. He took great care to ensure that it
    covers all the laws available to protect me and those who use this as a
    basis for their own contracts. It was then run under the noses of a
    couple of others with similar experience working in other parts of
    England, who said they wished more of their clients used a contract
    based on this one.
    --
    Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
    Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
    http://www.katedicey.co.uk
    Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

  6. Gordon H said:

    Kate XXXXXX <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:
    Gordon H said:

    Kate XXXXXX <[email hidden]> writes
    >
    > In my line of work as a professional sewist of custom clothing (and
    > other stuff), I frequently come across the idea that having
    > something run up by the local dressmaker is cheaper than buying it.
    >
    My lady friend would understand where you're coming from!
    She is a very meticulous (amateur) dressmaker, and is frequently the
    victim of friends who want "a bit of an alteration doing", which can
    sometimes mean reconstructing a cheaply sewn dress or skirt.
    I tell her repeatedly that when they ask for work doing, she should
    check what is involved, and give them a quote, to be paid in cash.
    Unfortunately she is too timid with them.

    Show her my contract:
    http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk/KatePages/HowToGet/kate_dicey_con
    tract.htm


    Thanks, I'll do that next time she is visiting me!

    Quoted message said:

    After the initial consultation and design drawings, I do nothing until
    it is signed and the deposit paid.


    Nowadays it is usually just a simple alteration required for a friend,
    but it can involve more work than the 'friend' realises, and if the
    friend doesn't drive, also includes delivery!

    Alterations always do: you have to dismantle the garment, fit it, and
    put it together again so the alteration doesn't show! I don't do
    alterations on anything I have not made myself, and when I make a
    garment I tell the person if the garment is NOT alterable, and why.

    Quoted message said:


    I won't steal your contract, but it has given me a few ideas of an
    agreement I could fit on an A4 sheet, for her to present when anyone
    asks for a 'favour'. ;-)

    You are welcome to use the contract if you wish. Just write to me/email
    me an address so I can send you 'official' permission, so someone else
    doesn't accuse you of plagiarising it! If you do manage to put a single
    sheet version together, I'd be interested in seeing it.

    --
    Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
    Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
    http://www.katedicey.co.uk
    Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

  7. Graculus said:

    "Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Simon said:

    I don't
    understand many peoples hang ups about them.

    Leg length isn't a standardised feature of either trousers or people.
    I, for example, have the opposite problem with relatively short legs and
    many trousers being too long for me. Lowe typically have relatively
    long limbs on their garments IME so you might see how their offerings
    work for you.

    I, too, have short legs. Overtrousers never seem to come in variable leg
    lengths (unlike normal trousers), and neither can they be "put up"
    (zips, fastners, etc). So my main gripe is that I can't find any that
    fit. That, and the constant rustling, of course.

    Removing the leg zip and reinserting higher up is usually fairly
    straight forward. The difficult bit is redoing any knee patches and
    contour darts so that they fall at the knee rather than half way down
    the shin. It's sometimes easier and cheaper to make from scratch,
    putting the details where they are needed than to take a completed pair
    and alter all the details.

    Suit trousers/slacks/jeans don't usually have the added complications of
    technical features such as shaping to the knee, sealed seams, zips, and
    adjustable waists... And over trousers do not HAVE to be made from
    noisy fabrics.

    --
    Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
    Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
    http://www.katedicey.co.uk
    Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

  8. Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon H
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    I won't steal your contract, but it has given me a few ideas of an
    agreement I could fit on an A4 sheet, for her to present when anyone
    asks for a 'favour'. ;-)

    Just make sure you have a clause in there so she can't include you in
    the 'anyone' Gordon!!! :-)


    I pay in kind* for any repairs, (shortening of trouser length mainly).

    I read Kate's method, and Mavis had a devil of a job with some leisure
    trousers of mine, moving up the zip before turning the bottoms up. It
    was something to do with the ****ing way they had been ****ing well
    stitched! I didn't understand the technical terms used!

    *Like fixing anything of hers that's broken.
    :-)
    --
    Gordon H
    (Remove "Invalid" to reply)

  9. Kate XXXXXX <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    Gordon H wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I won't steal your contract, but it has given me a few ideas of an
    agreement I could fit on an A4 sheet, for her to present when anyone
    asks for a 'favour'. ;-)

    You are welcome to use the contract if you wish. Just write to
    me/email me an address so I can send you 'official' permission, so
    someone else doesn't accuse you of plagiarising it! If you do manage
    to put a single sheet version together, I'd be interested in seeing it.


    I was just thinking of a simple agreement to actually pay for the work,
    rather than offering some rubbish that the Charity Shop had refused!
    --
    Gordon H
    (Remove "Invalid" to reply)

  10. Kate XXXXXX said:

    And over trousers do not HAVE to be made from
    noisy fabrics.

    But if you basically are not enamoured of wearing 2 pairs of
    trousers at once it makes a lot of sense to have very light ones,
    as they'll live in your bag 95%+ of the time. And I've yet to see
    a very light pair that isn't rustly.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  11. Peter Clinch said:
    Kate XXXXXX said:

    And over trousers do not HAVE to be made from noisy fabrics.

    But if you basically are not enamoured of wearing 2 pairs of trousers at
    once it makes a lot of sense to have very light ones, as they'll live in
    your bag 95%+ of the time. And I've yet to see a very light pair that
    isn't rustly.

    Pete.

    I haven't made any for a couple of years, but ass the boy has grown out
    of his, I'm looking into it. If I find something light and quiet, I'll
    let you know.

    --
    Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
    Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
    http://www.katedicey.co.uk
    Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

  12. "Kate XXXXXX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    I, too, have short legs. Overtrousers never seem to come in variable leg
    lengths (unlike normal trousers), and neither can they be "put up" (zips,
    fastners, etc). So my main gripe is that I can't find any that fit. That,
    and the constant rustling, of course.

    Removing the leg zip and reinserting higher up is usually fairly straight
    forward.

    For you, maybe. Many of us don't have the appropriate skills with needle and
    thread. And then there's the factor of puncturing any GoreTex (or
    equivalent) membrane that'll need resealing.

  13. Kate XXXXXX said:

    I haven't made any for a couple of years, but ass the boy has grown out


    ^^^^^^^^^^^
    That's not a nice way to refer to your son!

    Jim Ford

  14. Graculus said:

    "Kate XXXXXX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    I, too, have short legs. Overtrousers never seem to come in variable leg
    lengths (unlike normal trousers), and neither can they be "put up" (zips,
    fastners, etc). So my main gripe is that I can't find any that fit. That,
    and the constant rustling, of course.

    Removing the leg zip and reinserting higher up is usually fairly straight
    forward.

    For you, maybe. Many of us don't have the appropriate skills with needle and
    thread. And then there's the factor of puncturing any GoreTex (or
    equivalent) membrane that'll need resealing.

    Any seamstress/tailor/garmet-alterer should be able to do the job.

    As for bothering with resealing zips I'm not sure it is worthwhile on
    OTs water comes up your leg especially if you end up making extreme
    leg movements or step in a bog. The problem can be solved by wearing
    gaiters under them.
    --
    Phil Cook, last hill: Angletarn Pikes via Beda Fell.
    http://www.p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk/May07/martin9.htm

  15. Phil Cook said:
    Graculus said:

    "Kate XXXXXX" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    > I, too, have short legs. Overtrousers never seem to come in variable leg
    > lengths (unlike normal trousers), and neither can they be "put up" (zips,
    > fastners, etc). So my main gripe is that I can't find any that fit. That,
    > and the constant rustling, of course.
    Removing the leg zip and reinserting higher up is usually fairly straight
    forward.


    For you, maybe. Many of us don't have the appropriate skills with needle and
    thread. And then there's the factor of puncturing any GoreTex (or
    equivalent) membrane that'll need resealing.

    Any seamstress/tailor/garmet-alterer should be able to do the job.

    As for bothering with resealing zips I'm not sure it is worthwhile on
    OTs water comes up your leg especially if you end up making extreme
    leg movements or step in a bog. The problem can be solved by wearing
    gaiters under them.

    I wouldn't bother anyway, unless the zips were the water resistant type
    or had a gusset behind them. Not much point if the zip tape itself
    isn't as waterproof as the fabric.

    --
    Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
    Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
    http://www.katedicey.co.uk
    Click on Kate's Pages and explore!


  16. Quoted message said:

    your bag 95%+ of the time. And I've yet to see a very light pair that
    isn't rustly.

    Most outdoor clothing I've ever come across rustles! Overtrousers aren't
    the only culprit. Jackets make just as much rustle.

    Simon
    --
    http://www.simonwyndham.co.uk

  17. Don't get me wrong Kate, I know full well bespoke stuff has to cost. I
    know that more than anyone being involved in video and TV production.
    The Slioch clothing seems to cost an arm and a leg even without ordering
    a custom garment though. And the fabrics they use don't seem to be as
    advanced as, say, eVent. Are they all made to order?

    Simon

    Kate XXXXXX said:
    Peter Clinch said:
    Simon said:

    I've looked at Slioch before. Didn't realise they did custom jobs. But
    they look *really* expensive!

    Bespoke clothing generally is. Which is why most of what we wear is
    mass produced! OTOH, you know it will fit and be specified /just/ the
    way you want, which is very rare in mass produced clothing.

    Quoted message said:

    For those prices I would expect them to
    give my legs bionic like abilities!

    If it's the only way to get something that actually fits the way you
    want then it's probably worth it, as every step you take in them will be
    an improvement on the alternative. Lots of steps on a big hill-walk...

    Pete.

    In my line of work as a professional sewist of custom clothing (and
    other stuff), I frequently come across the idea that having something
    run up by the local dressmaker is cheaper than buying it. For some
    reason I have always failed to comprehend, women seem to think that they
    can have a tarty party frock/wedding dress 'run up' by me for less than
    a BHS or Monsoon version... WHERE this strange notion comes from I do
    not know: it isn't an idea *I* ever suffered from.

    And it isn't one that most blokes suffer from, either. Maybe I failed
    to catch the silly notion that having something tailored to your
    specific measurements and requirements, hand finished, and made from
    beautiful fabrics was an option you expected to *pay* for because my dad
    always had his uniforms and suits built by Gieives (later Geives & Hawks
    of 1, Saville Row), and my mother sewed, so I could SEE the work that
    went into things.

    Building and engineering clothing for walkers and others with specific
    needs is a special area of a specialist field. The clothing is
    generally better made than that of yer normal high street fashion
    manufacturers (there are a few exceptions, in both directions), made
    from high tec fabrics, and made in smaller numbers than 'ordinary'
    clothes. It's one area where we EXPECT garments to last several years,
    and to be worn hard in those years, and we also expect to pay the price
    for that.

    When you want a special garment that fits a particular body *doing a
    particular activity*, you need to either acquire the skills and
    equipment to make it yourself, or find someone who can do it for you and
    pay them. It takes years to acquire the skills. It isn't just the
    basic sewing know-how: you also need to know about the fabrics (and
    these are constantly being updated as new fabrics are developed [this is
    true in fashion as well as tec stuff: we now have fabrics with
    encapsulated perfumes, fabrics that can be lit up like a Christmas tree,
    and fabrics that change colour with body heat - like those silly kettles
    that go pink when they boil!] and if you are going to work with them,
    you need to know what they were developed for and how best to sew them),
    the new findings (like water resist zips),AND the new machinery to sew
    them with!

    And you have to know when to duck out... Anything that needs taped
    seams where the tape is welded over the seam on the inside is going to
    work better (in that the tape will stick and stay stuck for the life of
    the garment) if it is factory welded as there is no present home use
    welding tool: irons do NOT work as well (I know, I've tried!). A set-up
    where they manufacture standard sizes for the mass market (for a given
    value of 'mass'!) but also tailor make for individuals, and who make
    clothing with this weld, is going to do a better job than I can on these
    seams, at least as far as getting the seams done is concerned. These
    makers *usually* only make *their* design of garment in your personal
    fit. If you want a totally unique design and fit combination, you are
    going to have to find someone willing to tackle the job, and possibly
    make some sort of compromise on the seam finish to cope with the
    limitations of the technology and economics of working with a small
    operation. And you are going to have to pay: probably up to twice what
    buying a good pair from a good manufacturer would cost if you went for
    their all weather highest spec pair of trousers, coat, whatever.

    But it would fit.

    --
    http://www.simonwyndham.co.uk

  18. Simon said:

    Don't get me wrong Kate, I know full well bespoke stuff has to cost. I
    know that more than anyone being involved in video and TV production.
    The Slioch clothing seems to cost an arm and a leg even without
    ordering a custom garment though. And the fabrics they use don't seem
    to be as advanced as, say, eVent. Are they all made to order?

    As far as I know, all Slioch waterproofs are made to measure.
    The jacket I have was made to my measurements (its about 10 years old). One
    fills in a detailed measuring chart as part of the ordering process. My
    experience is that they stand by their products, offering cheap/free repairs
    years after purchase.

    After a quick glance at the website, I'd guess an equivalent jacket to mine
    is now £260-300. I paid something around £160 ten years ago, so the price
    shift seems not unreasonable.
    My reasons for ordering made-to-measure was, at the time, I couldn't find a
    jacket with long enough arms that didn't also assume I had the torso of the
    Michelin Man. Some more recent off-the-peg designs seem to fit me, so if
    they are going to do the job, I will use off-the-peg.

    I agree about your comments on fabrics; the absence of things like Event,
    PacLite, XCR seems strange given that fairly low volume off-the-peg makers
    seem to use them (eg. Rab, Montane ). I guess they are content with the
    fabrics they know, and haven't seen a need to switch to the latest. Perhaps
    the latest only offer marginal gains over their predecessors ?

    - Nigel

    --
    Nigel Cliffe,
    Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

  19. Simon said:

    Don't get me wrong Kate, I know full well bespoke stuff has to cost. I
    know that more than anyone being involved in video and TV production.
    The Slioch clothing seems to cost an arm and a leg even without
    ordering a custom garment though. And the fabrics they use don't seem
    to be as advanced as, say, eVent. Are they all made to order?

    As far as I know, all Slioch waterproofs are made to measure.
    The jacket I have was made to my measurements (its about 10 years old). One
    fills in a detailed measuring chart as part of the ordering process. My
    experience is that they stand by their products, offering cheap/free repairs
    years after purchase.

    After a quick glance at the website, I'd guess an equivalent jacket to mine
    is now £260-300. I paid something around £160 ten years ago, so the price
    shift seems not unreasonable.
    My reasons for ordering made-to-measure was, at the time, I couldn't find a
    jacket with long enough arms that didn't also assume I had the torso of the
    Michelin Man. Some more recent off-the-peg designs seem to fit me, so if
    they are going to do the job, I will use off-the-peg.

    I agree about your comments on fabrics; the absence of things like Event,
    PacLite, XCR seems strange given that fairly low volume off-the-peg makers
    seem to use them (eg. Rab, Montane ). I guess they are content with the
    fabrics they know, and haven't seen a need to switch to the latest. Perhaps
    the latest only offer marginal gains over their predecessors ?

    - Nigel

    --
    Nigel Cliffe,
    Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

  20. Simon said:

    Don't get me wrong Kate, I know full well bespoke stuff has to cost. I
    know that more than anyone being involved in video and TV production.
    The Slioch clothing seems to cost an arm and a leg even without ordering
    a custom garment though. And the fabrics they use don't seem to be as
    advanced as, say, eVent. Are they all made to order?

    Not sure: I'll investigate.

    --
    Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
    Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
    http://www.katedicey.co.uk
    Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

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