Overexercising excuses.

"iakobski" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1118919237.844143.317080
@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

cycling 10 miles a
day will not damage your knees, whether you are overweight or not.

Unless you have some form of existing undiagnosed problem with your knees
and if you're overweight this could be quite likely. My wife goes in for
knee surgery in a couple of months to rectify a problem that was largely
exacerbated by cycling and has been recommended walking for weight loss
until then.

James Annan <[email hidden]> wrote in news:d8rvjv$q8g$1
@inews.gazeta.pl:

Quoted message said:

I used to drink beer by picking up the full glass. Now I use a straw.

I do hope you have the glass on a raised platform, we wouldn't want you to
strain yourself by sucking it up through a straw that was too long.

<thinks>
hmmm... pocket sized beer pump...
</thinks>

Graeme

(PeteCresswell) said:

another guy (who is an MD here - so may have an agenda...) said that if you're
in the UK and over 65, you basically don't have medical care: period.

Which is complete and unmitigated nonsense.

Without a vestage of truth.

Although he's right that no one over sixty has periods, though.

Bill Lloyd said:

And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health care
system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd be dead) for
a critical illness?
Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

And where do people form the US of A go after their HMO cuts them off
or if they can't afford a healthcare plan?

Yes, you guessed it, the graveyard ;-)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:13:56 -0700, "(PeteCresswell)" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My cousin says that if he wants treatment for his foot problem in anything less
than two months, he has to purchase supplemental insurance on his own and
another guy (who is an MD here - so may have an agenda...) said that if you're
in the UK and over 65, you basically don't have medical care: period.

That last is what is technically known as Complete Bollocks. The UK
is no different to any other country, in that the majority of the
money spent on medical care for the average person, is spent in the
last six months of their life.

As for the foot problem - who knows? It probably depends on where you
live. My local doctors' practice has a team of nurses and runs
various clinics for asthma, pain, weight management etc. The wait is
not long (i.e. you can usually go along to the next clinic), and they
are free at the point of delivery inna NHS stylee.

I managed to knock three whole weeks off the wait for a non-urgent
surgical appointment by using my medical insurance, but non-urgent is
what it was.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

In uk.rec.cycling Bill Lloyd <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Americans' reputation worldwide for having "too straight, and too
: white" teeth can't mean NOBODY over here can afford health care, eh?

Of course not. However, the poor (and fair chunks of the lower-middle
classes as well now), can't.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

(PeteCresswell) said:

Can anybody from the UK elucidate?

My cousin says that if he wants treatment for his foot problem in
anything less than two months, he has to purchase supplemental
insurance on his own and another guy (who is an MD here - so may have
an agenda...) said that if you're in the UK and over 65, you basically
don't have medical care: period.

That is unmitigated nonsense. The system is not perfect: for example
the time you wait and the actual treatment you get may depend to some
extent on where you live (known as the post-code lottery) but in the UK
everyone is entitled to health care free at the point of delivery.
There is no charge for going to see your doctor, no charge for calling
the doctor out to you, no charge for an ambulance ride, and no charge
for hospital treatment. There is a small charge for prescription
medicines.

--
Dave...

Bill Lloyd said:

Arthur Clune said:

In uk.rec.cycling Jason Earl <[email hidden]> wrote:

: And when Jesus comes again I am sure that things will work this way.
: Until then I would rather trust profit motives than politicians any
: day of the week. It's much easier, and far less expensive, to take
: care of my health and insure myself eventualities than it is to have
: the government take care of this sort of stuff.

While not wanting to let the facts get in the way of a good rant,
that is untrue.

America spends over twice what over nations in the G8 spend on health
as a percentage of GDP for a far worse result.
(apologies for the bad formatting)

Country Total spent on health as percentage of GDP (2002)
Percentage change (1997-2002)
United States 14.6 40.72%
Germany 10.9 26.49%
France 9.7 37.61%
Canada 9.6 28.54%
Sweden 9.2 27.89%
Netherlands 9.1 27.04
Denmark 8.8 16.60%
Italy 8.5 27.37%
New Zealand 8.5 36.52%
United Kingdom 7.7 34.60%
Spain 7.6 36.85%

(this table from
http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/electionbriefings/international.htm. The
data is available in lots of other places as well).

Arthur

And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health care
system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd be dead) for
a critical illness?

Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

ROFL! Name ONE Swede who goes to the US of A for health care?
Sweden DOES have private hospitals... or maybe you don't know the
difference between Sweden and Canada?

And you are implying the socialist healthcare system of the US is
somehow less socialist than the Swedish system? Please explain THAT...
(of course, the systems in both those countries are way too
socialist).

in rec.hiking Bill Lloyd said:

Quoted message said:

And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health care
system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd be dead) for
a critical illness?

Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

they have a much longer life expectancy in Sweden then they do in the third
world USA.

Greg R said:

Graeme said:

Unless you have some form of existing undiagnosed problem with your

Quoted message said:

knees and if you're overweight this could be quite likely.

My wife goes in for knee surgery in a couple of months to
rectify a problem that was largely exacerbated by cycling
and has been recommended walking for Weight loss until then.

No wonder. Some of the poster are in the uk. You have different type
of bikes their. That are also built different than in the US. The UK
bikes are special designed to keep the knee strain to a minimum.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with a technical explanation of this
"special" design of UK bikes that "keep the knee strain to a minimum."

TIA.

Jerry said:

Greg R said:

Graeme said:

Unless you have some form of existing undiagnosed problem with
your
> knees and if you're overweight this could be quite likely.
My wife goes in for knee surgery in a couple of months to
rectify a problem that was largely exacerbated by cycling
and has been recommended walking for Weight loss until then.

No wonder. Some of the poster are in the uk. You have different
type of bikes their. That are also built different than in the US.
The UK bikes are special designed to keep the knee strain to a
minimum.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with a technical explanation of this
"special" design of UK bikes that "keep the knee strain to a
minimum."

TIA.

Greg R is really into web links. Perhaps he could share some with us
that deal with the special design on UK bikes versus those manufactured
in the US.

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per [email protected]:

Quoted message said:

I've heard plenty of good stuff about the UK health system. Now that my SO is
in the USA he can't afford to see a doctor and goes without. Same goes for
his dental care.

Quoted message said:

That's the second good thing somebody's said.

Quoted message said:

Can anybody from the UK elucidate?

Quoted message said:

My cousin says that if he wants treatment for his foot problem in anything less
than two months, he has to purchase supplemental insurance on his own and
another guy (who is an MD here - so may have an agenda...) said that if you're
in the UK and over 65, you basically don't have medical care: period.

There an American tradition of talking complete bollocks about the UK
NHS system. Far from having no medical care after after 65, after
you're 60 all your medical prescriptions become free, instead of
having to pay a standard fixed charge for each prescribed item. And
for some odd reason, most of the folk in NHS hospital beds, are old
folk.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

you know? said:

Bill Lloyd said:

And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health care
system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd be dead) for
a critical illness?
Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

And where do people form the US of A go after their HMO cuts them off
or if they can't afford a healthcare plan?

Yes, you guessed it, the graveyard ;-)

Wrong. They go to the ER, and then they get treatment. It is illegal
for a hospital to deny care to someone based on their ability to pay.
Basically, the hospital eats it. Which can cause hospitals to go
bankrupt or run very much in the red in areas with high percentages of
Mexican residents.

Quoted message said:

Bill Lloyd said:

Arthur Clune said:

In uk.rec.cycling Jason Earl <[email hidden]> wrote:

: And when Jesus comes again I am sure that things will work this way.
: Until then I would rather trust profit motives than politicians any
: day of the week. It's much easier, and far less expensive, to take
: care of my health and insure myself eventualities than it is to have
: the government take care of this sort of stuff.

While not wanting to let the facts get in the way of a good rant,
that is untrue.

America spends over twice what over nations in the G8 spend on health
as a percentage of GDP for a far worse result.
(apologies for the bad formatting)

Country Total spent on health as percentage of GDP (2002)
Percentage change (1997-2002)
United States 14.6 40.72%
Germany 10.9 26.49%
France 9.7 37.61%
Canada 9.6 28.54%
Sweden 9.2 27.89%
Netherlands 9.1 27.04
Denmark 8.8 16.60%
Italy 8.5 27.37%
New Zealand 8.5 36.52%
United Kingdom 7.7 34.60%
Spain 7.6 36.85%

(this table from
http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/electionbriefings/international.htm. The
data is available in lots of other places as well).

Arthur

And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health care
system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd be dead) for
a critical illness?

Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

ROFL! Name ONE Swede who goes to the US of A for health care?
Sweden DOES have private hospitals... or maybe you don't know the
difference between Sweden and Canada?

And you are implying the socialist healthcare system of the US is
somehow less socialist than the Swedish system? Please explain THAT...
(of course, the systems in both those countries are way too
socialist).

Buddy of mine had a coworker relocate to the US for this very reason.

Bill Lloyd said:

you know? said:

Bill Lloyd said:

And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health care
system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd be dead) for
a critical illness?
Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

And where do people form the US of A go after their HMO cuts them off
or if they can't afford a healthcare plan?

Yes, you guessed it, the graveyard ;-)

Wrong. They go to the ER, and then they get treatment. It is illegal
for a hospital to deny care to someone based on their ability to pay.

Previously true, but now subject to certain significant exceptions.

Quoted message said:

Basically, the hospital eats it. Which can cause hospitals to go
bankrupt or run very much in the red in areas with high percentages of
Mexican residents.

The ER is only required to stabilize the patient enough that they can
be transported to a public hospital or discharged for treatment
elsewhere...and you'd be amazed at the conditions that can be
considered "dischargable for treatment elsewhere". They aren't even
required to do that much in some cases. And with the new bankruptcy
code, if you've got only limited assets, and you don't have health
insurance, you or your heirs will likely be penniless after a major
illness that involves hospitalization or extensive medical attention.
There is no longer any protection from having your assets siezed in
such a case. You may survive, but could literally be on the street as
a result...and the debt will now continue to follow you around for
longer, with greater enforceability than before. Will this reduce the
losses in the health care system? No. Most unpaid care is for
indigents and people with essentially no liquid or attachable assets
anyway. For those who have a job, if their income gets garnished to
pay the debt to any significant degree, they'll likely end up fleeing,
desititute and without a job, or worse. What will also happen is that
you'll start seeing working-class folks who've only got 5 years left
on the mortgage deciding that they really don't need to go see the
doctor about that thing they've got bothering them. Why? Because if
it's serious, they won't be able to pay for it without going
completely broke and losing everything, and if it's not serious, it'll
clear up by itself...or so they're going to think.

The two mistaken assumptions in the health care system today are that
it's economically desirable over the long term to let the market as
currently constituted handle the issue (which it has demonstrated that
it cannot), and that sheer naked unbridled greed isn't the root cause
of the majority of the issues. IMO, most of the greed is not on the
part of physicians, though there are certainly some stunning examples
of it there. Most of it is on the part of faceless third parties who
profit from the business and the way it's conducted...and consider
anything done in the name of increased profits to be good. They even
make a profit on being sued for malpractice; how can we expect costs
to be kept under control in the face of *that*?

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

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Quoted message said:

you know? said:

Bill Lloyd said:

And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health
care system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd
be dead) for a critical illness?
Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

And where do people form the US of A go after their HMO cuts them
off or if they can't afford a healthcare plan?

Yes, you guessed it, the graveyard ;-)

Wrong. They go to the ER, and then they get treatment. It is
illegal for a hospital to deny care to someone based on their
ability to pay. Basically, the hospital eats it. Which can cause
hospitals to go
bankrupt or run very much in the red in areas with high percentages
of Mexican residents.

Oh so Mexicans are to blame for hospitals running in the red? what
happened to good administration skills? I think red is what happens
when doctors try to be administrators.

LV

- ------------------------------------------------------
I rode a tank and held a General's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank

- - - - Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil
- ----------------------------------------
Today's mighty oak is yesterdays nut that held its ground.

- - -unknown
- ----------------------------------------
You are your greatest obstacle.

- - - unknown
- ----------------------------------------
If you are reading this in a group where the message
is cross-posted into more than three groups and subject is being fat,
it means the idiot who started this thread is trolling
me or soc.support.fat-acceptance and I flamed his ass.
I consider the idiots I flame a waste of humanity
and deserving of all of the ill treatment I can
hand them. Idiots who ridicule fat people are worse
then vermin as far as I am concerned. If you don't
want to read my responses, trim the groups to where you want
he message to go and you will not hear from me.Otherwise,
your eyes will burn from the venom in my reply.
- ----------------------------------------

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Bill Lloyd said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health care
system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd be dead) for
a critical illness?
Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And where do people form the US of A go after their HMO cuts them off
or if they can't afford a healthcare plan?
Yes, you guessed it, the graveyard ;-)

Quoted message said:

Wrong. They go to the ER, and then they get treatment.

Note the smiley.

Quoted message said:

It is illegal
for a hospital to deny care to someone based on their ability to pay.
Basically, the hospital eats it. Which can cause hospitals to go
bankrupt or run very much in the red in areas with high percentages of
Mexican residents.

And that's good? Over here the funding follows the patient.

I note that Cuba seems to have rather a good healthcare system.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Lady Veteran said:

Quoted message said:

you know? said:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:08:43 -0700, Bill Lloyd
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health
> care system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd
> be dead) for a critical illness?
> Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

And where do people form the US of A go after their HMO cuts them
off or if they can't afford a healthcare plan?

Yes, you guessed it, the graveyard ;-)

Wrong. They go to the ER, and then they get treatment. It is
illegal for a hospital to deny care to someone based on their
ability to pay. Basically, the hospital eats it. Which can cause
hospitals to go bankrupt or run very much in the red in areas with
high percentages of Mexican residents.

Oh so Mexicans are to blame for hospitals running in the red? what
happened to good administration skills? I think red is what happens
when doctors try to be administrators.

Let's imagine for a minute that you had a business (I realize that
it's a stretch), and government regulations said that anyone with an
"emergency" could come to your business and get goods and services for
free. If enough people came and took advantage of the "free" service
it would be really easy to run the business at a loss, especially if
the service was expensive to provide. Now imagine that you couldn't
legally provide cut rate service to the freeloaders, and you have the
current state of U.S. hospitals.

Here's a clue. Take any random doctor and hit them in the head as
hard as you want with a two by four. The doctor will still know more
about economics than you do. It's not that doctors don't make good
administrators, it is that in some areas there are a lot of people
that don't pay for their medical care. Some people like to blame one
ethnic group or another, but it's less about race and more about
poverty.

If you have some magic potion that will make health care cost less we
would all love to hear all about it. If you are simply going to spout
nonsense about turning a profit providing an expensive service to
people who aren't going to pay then give us all a break and keep your
thoughts to yourself.

Jason

No, LV, Red happens when you have to pay for a service/procedure but you
cannot get them or anybody else to pay for it.

So, yes, in short, Mexicans are to blame for MANY hospitals'dire financial
condidtion. This is a problem that won't go away by closing your eyes and
tapping your heels 3 times. I guess one solution is to demand that the
federal government pay the bills because the federal government REFUSES to
adequately enforce our immigration laws, but this just passes the buck onto
the taxpayer.

I reallly am sorry that Mexico and most of Latin America is in such bad
shape, but they have themselves to blame for it; afterall, they are
democracies down there. Anyway, no matter what sympathy I feel for Latin
Americans, I feel much more strongly about my own interests and the
integrity of my country.

One solution: let's invade Mexico, establish a trusteeship zone in the
northern 100 miles of the country and administer and govern it like it
should be. This way the mexicans (and other latins) can get the benefit of
American administration and general civic integrity without swamping our
country. Imperialist? who cares. Workable? absolutely.

I don't feel bound to honor the integrity of other nations and other
cultures when they don't feel bound to honor our own integrity.

Peace (means good fences
"Lady Veteran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

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Hash: SHA1

Quoted message said:

you know? said:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:08:43 -0700, Bill Lloyd
<[email hidden]> wrote:

> And where do people from Sweden come when their socialist health
> care system denies them care (or queues them until after they'd
> be dead) for a critical illness?
> Yes, you guessed it. The US of A.

And where do people form the US of A go after their HMO cuts them
off or if they can't afford a healthcare plan?

Yes, you guessed it, the graveyard ;-)

Wrong. They go to the ER, and then they get treatment. It is
illegal for a hospital to deny care to someone based on their
ability to pay. Basically, the hospital eats it. Which can cause
hospitals to go
bankrupt or run very much in the red in areas with high percentages
of Mexican residents.

Oh so Mexicans are to blame for hospitals running in the red? what
happened to good administration skills? I think red is what happens
when doctors try to be administrators.

LV

- ------------------------------------------------------
I rode a tank and held a General's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank

- - - - Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil
- ----------------------------------------
Today's mighty oak is yesterdays nut that held its ground.

- - -unknown
- ----------------------------------------
You are your greatest obstacle.

- - - unknown
- ----------------------------------------
If you are reading this in a group where the message
is cross-posted into more than three groups and subject is being fat,
it means the idiot who started this thread is trolling
me or soc.support.fat-acceptance and I flamed his ass.
I consider the idiots I flame a waste of humanity
and deserving of all of the ill treatment I can
hand them. Idiots who ridicule fat people are worse
then vermin as far as I am concerned. If you don't
want to read my responses, trim the groups to where you want
he message to go and you will not hear from me.Otherwise,
your eyes will burn from the venom in my reply.
- ----------------------------------------

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Lady Veteran said:

Oh so Mexicans are to blame for hospitals running in the red? what
happened to good administration skills? I think red is what happens
when doctors try to be administrators.

Many hospitals in border states have gone under because they were not
allowed to turn away nonpaying, Mexican illegal aliens. Where do you
suggest they get the funds from?

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid:69346

http://magic-city-news.com/article_3982.shtml

From what I have read in your FAQ, you should not be preaching to anyone on
financial management. :-)