OT:YHA

John B said:

Paul Boyd said:

John B said the following on 21/08/2006 21:33:

Quoted message said:

The hostel probably won't be full either as school parties now insist on
sole occupancy irrespective of how many beds they will use, in case of
pervs, drunks and other perceived undesirables.

Are your serious???

Regrettably I'm *very* serious :-(

At least on this issue.

That is probably the stated reason. In reality it's possibly because
the school doesn't want to have to apologise to other residents for the
out of control and loutish behaviour of the students.

<rant>
Society is becoming too segmented horizontally, where the only
significant interaction outside of the ever dwindling family that a
child has is with people the same age. This can only be a bad thing for
society as young people then try to impress others of their age rather
than those they look up to.
</rant>

...d

MartinM said:

MSeries said:

I abandoned my YHA membership last year in favour of SYHA

do the SYHA have hostels in England? ;-)

No but the membership is cheaper and you can still get members
benefits in YHA hostels.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John B said:

Paul Boyd said:

John B said the following on 21/08/2006 21:33:

> The hostel probably won't be full either as school parties now insist
> on
> sole occupancy irrespective of how many beds they will use, in case
> of
> pervs, drunks and other perceived undesirables.

Are your serious???

Regrettably I'm *very* serious :-(

At least on this issue.

That is probably the stated reason. In reality it's possibly because
the school doesn't want to have to apologise to other residents for the
out of control and loutish behaviour of the students.

<rant>
Society is becoming too segmented horizontally, where the only
significant interaction outside of the ever dwindling family that a
child has is with people the same age. This can only be a bad thing for
society as young people then try to impress others of their age rather
than those they look up to.
</rant>

You can say that again!

elyob said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is probably the stated reason. In reality it's possibly because
the school doesn't want to have to apologise to other residents for the
out of control and loutish behaviour of the students.

<rant>
Society is becoming too segmented horizontally, where the only
significant interaction outside of the ever dwindling family that a
child has is with people the same age. This can only be a bad thing for
society as young people then try to impress others of their age rather
than those they look up to.
</rant>

You can say that again!

That is probably the stated reason. In reality it's possibly because
the school doesn't want to have to apologise to other residents for the
out of control and loutish behaviour of the students.

<rant>
Society is becoming too segmented horizontally, where the only
significant interaction outside of the ever dwindling family that a
child has is with people the same age. This can only be a bad thing for
society as young people then try to impress others of their age rather
than those they look up to.
</rant>

;-)

...d

David Martin said:

elyob said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is probably the stated reason. In reality it's possibly because
the school doesn't want to have to apologise to other residents for the
out of control and loutish behaviour of the students.

<rant>
Society is becoming too segmented horizontally, where the only
significant interaction outside of the ever dwindling family that a
child has is with people the same age. This can only be a bad thing for
society as young people then try to impress others of their age rather
than those they look up to.
</rant>

You can say that again!

That is probably the stated reason. In reality it's possibly because
the school doesn't want to have to apologise to other residents for the
out of control and loutish behaviour of the students.

Could be.

Another reason is pure money grabbing commercialism which by cynically using
the perceived threat of pervs and murderers convinces users that sole use is a
Good Thing and nice-and-bunny-rabbit-safe.

In reality the owner [1] may then charge higher rates for sole use and run
laughing to the bank.

[1] Remember that many of YHA hostels have been sold off and are now
independently owned, paying a franchise fee to YHA for continued use of the
green triangle and entry into the official listings.
Money is the name of the game.

Bring back Rule 4.

John B

John B said:

Bring back Rule 4.

Which was?

...d

David Martin said:

Society is becoming too segmented horizontally, where the only
significant interaction outside of the ever dwindling family that a
child has is with people the same age. This can only be a bad thing for
society as young people then try to impress others of their age rather
than those they look up to.

This is quite true. In Britain, adults are increasing wanting, and
getting used to, not seeing children in all kinds of contexts where they
used to be together. A poster on this newsgroup said in a different
context how pleased she was that there were no children allowed on
holiday where she was.

To me, that's like saying you don't want to see elderly people, or black
people, or disabled ones, when you go on holiday. The difference is that
unlike elderly, black and disabled people, every adult was once a child,
and only reached adulthood through childhood. How do you expect a
generation of children to behave who have got used to interacting only
with other children and the people who look after them? How are they
going to behave when they are adults?

Children need to learn to modify and control their behaviour
appropriately for different contexts, and this can only be learned if
they get to experience those different contexts.

Daniele

David Martin said:

John B said:

Bring back Rule 4.

Which was?

(Peers nervously around for the Python Police)

Now this term, I don't want to catch anybody not drinking?

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
May you have an accident shaped like an umbrella.

D.M. Procida said:

Children need to learn to modify and control their behaviour appropriately
for different contexts, and this can only be learned if they get to
experience those different contexts.

I think the problem for many is that they seem to be under the control of
adults who seem incapable of teaching then these skills.

--
Regards
Tony
(Take out the garbage to reply)

D.M. Procida said:

A poster on this newsgroup said in a different
context how pleased she was that there were no children allowed on
holiday where she was.

To me, that's like saying you don't want to see elderly people, or black
people, or disabled ones, when you go on holiday. The difference is that
unlike elderly, black and disabled people, every adult was once a child,
and only reached adulthood through childhood. How do you expect a
generation of children to behave who have got used to interacting only
with other children and the people who look after them? How are they
going to behave when they are adults?

Children need to learn to modify and control their behaviour
appropriately for different contexts, and this can only be learned if
they get to experience those different contexts.

I completely agree with that - I have no problem at all sharing a
hostel or anywhere else with kids - I'd rather that children were seen
as part of society than this Vicorian-like 'seen but not heard' thing
going on. I get really annoyed with people who are child-haters, as if
they are a different species or something - children are the same as
adults, some are annoying and some are really cool and pleasant to be
around. I agree that they will never learn to interact well (by example
from those who are more experienced) unless they get to do this with
adults as well as people their own age. I think it's sad that peope are
so un-family friendly in the UK, when in the rest of Europe the family
as as whole unit, including the kids, are welcomed as part of society
and made to feel welcome at various establishments such as restaurants
etc where the kids all seem to be well behaved, probably because they
have learned how to behave in such a setting through experience from a
young age.

I have never been a member of the YHA but I was going to join last
year. However, after various unsuccessful attempts to book anywhere 6
months ahead, because I needed to be assured of a bed after a 400k ride
I was planning to do, I gave up and joined SYHA instead. I found I
could actually book into the Scottish hostels! Of course, if you could
actually get a bed in a YHA, you could use the SHYA card for that the
same 'YHA members only' rate.

quote='D.M. Procida'David Martin said:

Society is becoming too segmented horizontally, where the only
significant interaction outside of the ever dwindling family that a
child has is with people the same age. This can only be a bad thing for
society as young people then try to impress others of their age rather
than those they look up to.

This is quite true. In Britain, adults are increasing wanting, and
getting used to, not seeing children in all kinds of contexts where they
used to be together. A poster on this newsgroup said in a different
context how pleased she was that there were no children allowed on
holiday where she was.

To me, that's like saying you don't want to see elderly people, or black
people, or disabled ones, when you go on holiday. The difference is that
unlike elderly, black and disabled people, every adult was once a child,
and only reached adulthood through childhood. How do you expect a
generation of children to behave who have got used to interacting only
with other children and the people who look after them? How are they
going to behave when they are adults?

Children need to learn to modify and control their behaviour
appropriately for different contexts, and this can only be learned if
they get to experience those different contexts.

Daniele[/QUOTE]

They had the right idea in Chtty Chitty Bang Bang if you ask me :-)

Seriously there are times when you don't want children around, and in Elisa's case being in resticted quarters on a boat, I agree would be one of them. However children need to interact with adults, in order to realise that despite what Mummy and Daddy say, they do have to behave in public.

I have stayed in hostels with school parties, and had only sympathy for the teachers, but they have never caused me any problem. I'm usually either too knackered to be woken by them, or out until they've all gone to bed. (last time was 3 years ago in Keswick)

Bryan

p.s. I have now let my mebershp lapse, and looking recently an old handbook, most of the hostels I have stayed in are now shut, Only the bifg ones are left. damn shame

David Martin said:

John B said:

Bring back Rule 4.

Which was?

It was the one which required those using youth hostels to arrive under
their own steam.

its removal heralded the influx of suitcase carrying motorists and coach
loads of tourists looking for cheapo beds, which destroyed much of the
camaeraderie and atmosphere created by those who had enjoyed a hard day
out in the countryside.

John B

Tony Hogarty said:

Quoted message said:

Children need to learn to modify and control their behaviour appropriately
for different contexts, and this can only be learned if they get to
experience those different contexts.

I think the problem for many is that they seem to be under the control of
adults who seem incapable of teaching then these skills.

They are not skills which can just be taught, in the same way geography
can be taught. They are skills which can only be readily acquired in a
culture and society where they can be observed, experimented with,
tested, and practised, in a society where children have all kinds of
interactions with all kinds of adults in different roles, and not just
their parents and teachers.

Daniele

David Martin said:

John B said:

Bring back Rule 4.

Which was?

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their
industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be
possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of
production, distribution, and exchange, and the best obtainable system
of popular administration and control of each industry or service."

Oh, sorry, that was /clause/ 4.

--
Dave...

Thanks JohnB for the link on uk.rec.youthhostel!

YHA's booking system is certainly bizarre. I stayed at the hostel in
Helmsley last week, but had I believed the online YHA booking system,
I'd not have even bothered to contact the hostel - it said (3 weeks
ago) that the hostel was fully booked.

I emailed the hostel on the off-chance, and sure enough, there were
beds available. When I arrived, there was a notice on the door
indicating the only availability for that night was 2 male beds, 0
female beds and 0 family beds.

The odd thing, there was a six-bedded room which was completely empty.
No wonder YHA's "occupancy" figures don't add up!

Moral of the story, don't believe the online booking system ;-)

"Jacki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks JohnB for the link on uk.rec.youthhostel!

YHA's booking system is certainly bizarre. I stayed at the hostel in
Helmsley last week, but had I believed the online YHA booking system,
I'd not have even bothered to contact the hostel - it said (3 weeks
ago) that the hostel was fully booked.

I emailed the hostel on the off-chance, and sure enough, there were
beds available. When I arrived, there was a notice on the door
indicating the only availability for that night was 2 male beds, 0
female beds and 0 family beds.

The odd thing, there was a six-bedded room which was completely empty.
No wonder YHA's "occupancy" figures don't add up!

Moral of the story, don't believe the online booking system ;-)

'ello Jackie!

FYI (and others) the online bed allocation is exactly that, an online
allocation. It does not represent all the hostel beds. Reason for this is
understandable as if you are taking bookings in person or on the phone there
needs to be a buffer to prevent double bookings during the delay between the
online booking and receipt at the hostel which is dependeant on the
individual hostel retrievening their web bookings as frequently as they
should. Whew.. long sentence... breathe(!)

Tony

On 22 Aug 2006 10:01:22 -0700, "dkahn400" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

David Martin said:

John B said:

Bring back Rule 4.

Which was?

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their
industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be
possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of
production, distribution, and exchange, and the best obtainable system
of popular administration and control of each industry or service."

Oh, sorry, that was /clause/ 4.

Oi! Get out of my head! I was going to post that but thought better of
it.

One day, comrade, one day.

Tim

John B said:

David Martin wrote:

Quoted message said:

It was the one which required those using youth hostels to arrive under
their own steam.

As I recall in the 70s the SYHA handbook had a paragraph to the effect
that while car users were welcome to use hostels they might be required
to move on if a hosteler arriving by foot or bike needed a bed.
Iain

Quoted message said:

John B said:

David Martin wrote:

Quoted message said:

It was the one which required those using youth hostels to arrive under
their own steam.

As I recall in the 70s the SYHA handbook had a paragraph to the effect
that while car users were welcome to use hostels they might be required
to move on if a hosteler arriving by foot or bike needed a bed.

Ooh, wouldn' t that be good. Though I can imagine people parking round
the corner and walking in... Was there not a time limit - something
like 7pm at which point the bed was no longer bounceable?

...d