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Road Cycling
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29 October 2004
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Papai Digital
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  1. Steven L. Sheffield said:
    Quoted message said:

    Speaking of public radio (albeit PRI, not NPR), there was a fascinating
    story about the Great Crash of 1929 on Marketplace today:

    hey thanks!

    it's interesting that i had always heard (not that i ever paid close
    attention though) that the federal reserve was to partly to blame for
    the continuation of the depression, but i recently learned that it was
    required by law to protect the gold standard:

    "In fact, the Federal Reserve faced conflicting demands to end the
    depression and to protect the gold standard. The first required easier
    credit, the second tighter credit. The gold standard handcuffed
    governments around the world.

    After Britain went off gold, for instance, the Federal Reserve raised
    interest rates sharply to stem gold outflows. The discount rate went
    from 1.5 to 3.5 percent, which, considering the condition of the
    economy, was a huge increase. The best evidence that the gold standard
    fostered the depression is that once countries abandoned it, their
    economies usually began growing again. This happened in Germany,
    Britain, and, after Roosevelt left gold in March and April 1933, the
    United States.

    Although self-defeating, the defense of gold was a product of law as
    well as custom. The Federal Reserve had to ensure that every dollar of
    paper money was backed by at least forty cents of gold. Once Congress
    ended the obligation to exchange gold for currency, the Fed was largely
    liberated from worrying about gold. This may have been the most
    important part of the New Deal's economic program. The economy did
    improve. Between 1933 and 1937, the unemployment rate dropped from 25 to
    14 percent before a new recession pushed it back up to 19 percent in
    1938. The 1937-38 recession is widely blamed on the Federal Reserve's
    mistaken decision to raise bank reserve requirements in August 1936 and
    early 1937. (Reserves are funds that banks keep as vault cash or as
    deposits at the Federal Reserve.) "
    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GreatDepression.html

    heather

  2. Steven L. Sheffield said:
    Quoted message said:

    Speaking of public radio (albeit PRI, not NPR), there was a fascinating
    story about the Great Crash of 1929 on Marketplace today:

    hey thanks!

    it's interesting that i had always heard (not that i ever paid close
    attention though) that the federal reserve was to partly to blame for
    the continuation of the depression, but i recently learned that it was
    required by law to protect the gold standard:

    "In fact, the Federal Reserve faced conflicting demands to end the
    depression and to protect the gold standard. The first required easier
    credit, the second tighter credit. The gold standard handcuffed
    governments around the world.

    After Britain went off gold, for instance, the Federal Reserve raised
    interest rates sharply to stem gold outflows. The discount rate went
    from 1.5 to 3.5 percent, which, considering the condition of the
    economy, was a huge increase. The best evidence that the gold standard
    fostered the depression is that once countries abandoned it, their
    economies usually began growing again. This happened in Germany,
    Britain, and, after Roosevelt left gold in March and April 1933, the
    United States.

    Although self-defeating, the defense of gold was a product of law as
    well as custom. The Federal Reserve had to ensure that every dollar of
    paper money was backed by at least forty cents of gold. Once Congress
    ended the obligation to exchange gold for currency, the Fed was largely
    liberated from worrying about gold. This may have been the most
    important part of the New Deal's economic program. The economy did
    improve. Between 1933 and 1937, the unemployment rate dropped from 25 to
    14 percent before a new recession pushed it back up to 19 percent in
    1938. The 1937-38 recession is widely blamed on the Federal Reserve's
    mistaken decision to raise bank reserve requirements in August 1936 and
    early 1937. (Reserves are funds that banks keep as vault cash or as
    deposits at the Federal Reserve.) "
    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GreatDepression.html

    heather

  3. Nev Shea said:
    Quoted message said:

    That is wonderful. My favorite was one in the mid 90's when there was a lot
    of merger and acquisition activity. The caption said "The trouble with
    mergers", and it was a picture of 2 camels [censored]. It looked very awkward,
    which was the point.

    it's probably best i didn't see that one, toooo funny, i would have hurt
    myself laughing.

    thanks!
    h

  4. Philip W. Moore said:


    You
    seem to think that we shouldn't hold Bush accountable for the single largest
    mistake since Vietnam simply because it produced a "positive" result, even
    though the premise for the war in Iraq was flawed (and some think
    contrived).

    I don't know what other people really think. But I believe you might be missing
    a subtlety. Many (such as myself) do take stock of Bush's hapless decision
    making. The difference between two voter's choices might simply be if Bush's
    haplessness is sufficient to override how deeply rotten Kerry is. For me, and
    to date, Bush's screwups are not sufficient to cause me to vote for Kerry, if
    forced to choose between the two. (In fact, I have the luxury of voting for
    neither since Kerry will win California.)

    Stated concisely, we have poor candidates to choose from in this election,
    especially when the two most popular are considered.

    Quoted message said:

    I just don't get it. That's like saying it's okay to steal somebody's
    wallet to buy a homeless man dinner.

    LOL. You've got plenty of company when "you don't get it." You've just
    described what the "American left" has been promoting for over 70 years. That's
    why I would always "vote against" the more socialistic candidate. Well maybe I
    shouldn't say "always." Bush is *almost* bad enough to vote for Kerry. (I mean
    "bad" as far as managerial/administrative skills, and he doesn't seem to have
    the intellectual punch to be discerning to the degree I would hope a president
    would be. I think the assertions that he is a "liar" and invaded Iraq for oil
    or other nefarious reasons are unfounded and born of emotion and political
    identification.)

    At any rate, our institutions will buffer either one, once one is elected.
    That's good. The doomsday scenarios described by either side won't happen. (Or
    at least in the short run, any way.) I hope I'm right.

    "Need some wood." -- GWB
    "He said wood." -- Butthead

  5. Quoted message said:

    From: gwhite [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    At any rate, our institutions will buffer either one, once one is elected.
    That's good. The doomsday scenarios described by either side won't happen.
    (Or
    at least in the short run, any way.) I hope I'm right.

    "Need some wood." -- GWB
    "He said wood." -- Butthead


    Hurrah! for divided government. Less is more!
    Bill C

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    gwhite said:

    At any rate, our institutions will buffer either one, once one is elected.
    That's good. The doomsday scenarios described by either side won't happen.
    (Or at least in the short run, any way.) I hope I'm right.

    Well, one of the problems that I see withthis scenario is that GWB and
    his people have done a lot of work (and have planned to do a lot more) to
    consolidate power in the executive branch. The traditional checks and
    balances have eroded enormously under his watch.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "It looks like the squirrel's been showing everybody
    where he keeps his nuts."

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

  7. Quoted message said:

    From: Howard Kveck [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Well, one of the problems that I see withthis scenario is that GWB and
    his people have done a lot of work (and have planned to do a lot more) to
    consolidate power in the executive branch. The traditional checks and
    balances have eroded enormously under his watch.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    As opposed to the train wreck that was the FDR administration? I know you
    support most of what he did, but not a lot of it was in our tradition of
    governance, or constitutional.
    Bill C

  8. h squared said:


    Steven L. Sheffield said:
    Quoted message said:

    Speaking of public radio (albeit PRI, not NPR), there was a fascinating
    story about the Great Crash of 1929 on Marketplace today:

    hey thanks!

    it's interesting that i had always heard (not that i ever paid close
    attention though) that the federal reserve was to partly to blame for
    the continuation of the depression, but i recently learned that it was
    required by law to protect the gold standard:

    "In fact, the Federal Reserve faced conflicting demands to end the
    depression and to protect the gold standard. The first required easier
    credit, the second tighter credit. The gold standard handcuffed
    governments around the world.

    After Britain went off gold, for instance, the Federal Reserve raised
    interest rates sharply to stem gold outflows. The discount rate went
    from 1.5 to 3.5 percent, which, considering the condition of the
    economy, was a huge increase. The best evidence that the gold standard
    fostered the depression is that once countries abandoned it, their
    economies usually began growing again. This happened in Germany,
    Britain, and, after Roosevelt left gold in March and April 1933, the
    United States.

    Although self-defeating, the defense of gold was a product of law as
    well as custom. The Federal Reserve had to ensure that every dollar of
    paper money was backed by at least forty cents of gold. Once Congress
    ended the obligation to exchange gold for currency, the Fed was largely
    liberated from worrying about gold. This may have been the most
    important part of the New Deal's economic program. The economy did
    improve. Between 1933 and 1937, the unemployment rate dropped from 25 to
    14 percent before a new recession pushed it back up to 19 percent in
    1938. The 1937-38 recession is widely blamed on the Federal Reserve's
    mistaken decision to raise bank reserve requirements in August 1936 and
    early 1937. (Reserves are funds that banks keep as vault cash or as
    deposits at the Federal Reserve.) "
    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GreatDepression.html

    Ah, yes that article -- I had been trying to remember where I had read it
    before. You're getting good, very good. I noted this section too:

    "To view the Great Depression as the last gasp of the gold standard—as economic
    historians Barry Eichengreen and Peter Temin suggest—bridges the gap between two
    popular explanations. The best-known, advanced by economists Milton Friedman and
    Anna Schwartz in A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960, blames the
    Federal Reserve for permitting two-fifths of the nation's banks to fail between
    1929 and 1933 (or 10,797 of the 25,568 banks in 1929). Since deposits were not
    insured then, the bank failures wiped out savings and shrank the money supply.
    From 1929 to 1933 the money supply dropped by one-third, choking off credit and
    making it impossible for many individuals and businesses to spend or invest.
    Friedman and Schwartz argue that it was this drop in the money supply that
    strangled the economy. They consider the depression mainly an American affair
    that spread abroad.

    In contrast, economist Charles Kindleberger, in The World in Depression,
    1929-1939, sees the depression as a global event caused by a lack of world
    economic leadership. According to Kindleberger, Britain provided leadership
    before World War I. It fostered global trade by keeping its markets open,
    promoted expansion by making overseas investments, and prevented financial
    crises with emergency loans. After World War II the United States played this
    role. But between the wars no country did, and the depression fed on itself,
    Kindleberger argues. No country did enough to halt banking crises, and the
    entire industrial world adopted protectionist measures in attempts to curtail
    imports. In 1930, for example, President Herbert Hoover signed the Smoot-Hawley
    tariff, raising tariffs on dutiable items by 52 percent. The protectionism put
    an extra brake on world trade just when countries should have been promoting it.

    With the passage of time, both the Friedman-Schwartz and Kindleberger views seem
    correct. Inept monetary policy explains the depression's severity, as Friedman
    and Schwartz argue. But because the gold standard caused many governments to
    make similar errors, the effects were worldwide, as Kindleberger contends."

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (TritonRider) said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Howard Kveck [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Well, one of the problems that I see withthis scenario is that GWB and
    his people have done a lot of work (and have planned to do a lot more) to
    consolidate power in the executive branch. The traditional checks and
    balances have eroded enormously under his watch.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    As opposed to the train wreck that was the FDR administration? I know you
    support most of what he did, but not a lot of it was in our tradition of
    governance, or constitutional.
    Bill C

    I do agree that much of his methodology was exactly as you describe it.
    Not to sound like I'm excusing that, but I do think the circumstances were
    somewhat more extraordinary than what wer have today.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "It looks like the squirrel's been showing everybody
    where he keeps his nuts."

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

  10. Bill,

    At least FDR kept people from starving, built dams, roads, national parks,
    electical utilities, and so on. What do we have to show for Bush's SNAFU?
    A stupid war, more [censored] jihadists, and internation ill-repute.

    FDR stands taller in his wheelchair than Bush will ever reach in the history
    books.

    Regards,

    The Jackass Newbie RBR Guy That Doesn't Race Enough But Will Start Doing So
    This Coming Season

    "TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Howard Kveck [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Well, one of the problems that I see withthis scenario is that GWB and
    his people have done a lot of work (and have planned to do a lot more) to
    consolidate power in the executive branch. The traditional checks and
    balances have eroded enormously under his watch.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    As opposed to the train wreck that was the FDR administration? I know you
    support most of what he did, but not a lot of it was in our tradition of
    governance, or constitutional.
    Bill C

  11. Quoted message said:

    From: Howard Kveck [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    I do agree that much of his methodology was exactly as you describe it.
    Not to sound like I'm excusing that, but I do think the circumstances were
    somewhat more extraordinary than what wer have today.

    --
    tanx,

    To be honest, I'm not sure that the threat today is that much less. Canada is
    putting in place Sharia courts, the Palestinian excuse machine is incredibly
    strong, there are tons of people here who have no problem with school busses
    being blown up as long as it wasn't Americans doing it. They give it some lip
    service, but excuse it.
    I still don't think that the Patriot Act, which I think is largely wrong, has
    done as much danage to US freedoms as FDR did.
    I think we are still fighting a religious war that has no bounds, and doesn't
    have a lot to do with Iraq. The left is unwilling to admit that the Islamic
    fundamentalists are flat out wrong and criminal. They are so busy trying to be
    multiculturalist they are excusing stoning women to death, while fighting
    prayer in US schools.
    They need to get a grip on reality! It's FUGLY and everyone is NOT equal!
    Bill C

  12. Danny Callen said:
    Quoted message said:

    Try living in a damn "battleground state"....If I see one more freakin
    political ad I'm gonna shoot my TV like Elvis!!

    Tim Lines said:

    YOU shot Elvis!?!?

    We shot the Kennedy's too
    (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/rolling-stones/117881.html)

  13. TritonRider said:

    but I know that he's convincing lots of people that he is pro hunting.
    Bill C

    The stupid undecided wafflers?

    <grin>

  14. "Stewart Fleming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm saying that "Amen" which is usually an
    expression of joy, was used by you in confirming a [censored] up

    Amen = "So be it".
    Hallelujah = expression of joy.

    "So be it" fails the carry the assential quality of "Amen". That's "assential".

    Amen = "Yes" or "Yes!"
    Hallelujah = "Praise the Lord"

  15. Danny Callen said:

    Try living in a damn "battleground state"....If I see one more freakin
    political ad I'm gonna shoot my TV like Elvis!!

    Danny Callen

    You shot Elvis? Damn, then he really is dead...

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...

  16. Howard Kveck said:

    Well, one of the problems that I see withthis scenario is that GWB and
    his people have done a lot of work (and have planned to do a lot more) to
    consolidate power in the executive branch. The traditional checks and
    balances have eroded enormously under his watch.

    The Imperial Presidency has most of its origins in the Democratic
    Party, not the Republican. A big problem for Bush in some areas is the
    huge and not generally Republican bureaucracy in DC, the accoutrements
    of the Imperial Presidency not necessarily working with the
    appointees.

    Its hard to consolidate power in something that has more parts than it
    is supposed to. Then, again, actually consolidating the Executive
    Branch first would take more time and effort than they have available.

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (TritonRider) said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Howard Kveck [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    I do agree that much of his methodology was exactly as you describe it.
    Not to sound like I'm excusing that, but I do think the circumstances were
    somewhat more extraordinary than what wer have today.

    --
    tanx,

    To be honest, I'm not sure that the threat today is that much less. Canada is
    putting in place Sharia courts, the Palestinian excuse machine is incredibly
    strong, there are tons of people here who have no problem with school busses
    being blown up as long as it wasn't Americans doing it. They give it some lip
    service, but excuse it.

    Well, I wasn't just thinking of it terms of threats/security. I was
    also including the economic/social circumstances. But on the security
    front, I do think that it was much worse back then. I don't see the Islamic
    extremists being able to successfully dominate as many nations as were
    dominated in the '30s/'40s. Yes, they may be able to take control of a few,
    but I don't think the overall consequences will be as devastating as they
    were back then. And I'm certainly not trying to downplay the behavior of
    those who would try to do that, or the overall effect it would have on
    international equilibrium.

    Quoted message said:

    I still don't think that the Patriot Act, which I think is largely wrong, has
    done as much danage to US freedoms as FDR did.

    Give it time... Anyway, the fact that Act II didn't make it through is a
    good thing. As for Act I, it's hard to tell just what the effects have
    been, since it includes such provisions as not being able to tell anyone if
    you know that the JD has been looking into someone's stuff (like at
    libraries, etc.)

    Quoted message said:

    I think we are still fighting a religious war that has no bounds, and doesn't
    have a lot to do with Iraq. The left is unwilling to admit that the Islamic
    fundamentalists are flat out wrong and criminal. They are so busy trying to be
    multiculturalist they are excusing stoning women to death, while fighting
    prayer in US schools.

    The people I know on the left are in complete recognition of the fact
    that the Islamic fundamentalists are horrible people. As I recall , it was
    lefties who went down to Somalia last year to help that womam who was to be
    stoned.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    "It looks like the squirrel's been showing everybody
    where he keeps his nuts."

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

  18. Quoted message said:

    From: Howard Kveck [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Give it time... Anyway, the fact that Act II didn't make it through is a
    good thing. As for Act I, it's hard to tell just what the effects have
    been, since it includes such provisions as not being able to tell anyone if
    you know that the JD has been looking into someone's stuff (like at
    libraries, etc.)

    That's a big part of why I'm not going into a panic over this. There is more
    than enough opposition to keep it under control, and probably ineffective on
    the whole.

    Quoted message said:

    The people I know on the left are in complete recognition of the fact
    that the Islamic fundamentalists are horrible people. As I recall , it was
    lefties who went down to Somalia last year to help that womam who was to be
    stoned.

    The problem is that they are willing to act in individual cases while trying
    to pretend that it isn't systemic. Have you looked into the textbooks they use
    for children, including our Saudi "friends"? At some point you have to take a
    stand and stop trying to rationalize everything. While you're busy trying to be
    fair to every tree, and make some sort of decision, you've already been hit
    again.

    Bill C

  19. TritonRider said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Howard Kveck [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Give it time... Anyway, the fact that Act II didn't make it through
    is a
    good thing. As for Act I, it's hard to tell just what the effects
    have
    been, since it includes such provisions as not being able to tell
    anyone if you know that the JD has been looking into someone's stuff
    (like at
    libraries, etc.)

    That's a big part of why I'm not going into a panic over this. There
    is more than enough opposition to keep it under control, and probably
    ineffective on the whole.


    http://www.livejournal.com/users/anniesj/331112.html

    http://www.livejournal.com/users/resonant8/71077.html

  20. Quoted message said:

    From: "Kyle Legate" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.livejournal.com/users/anniesj/331112.html

    http://www.livejournal.com/users/resonant8/71077.html

    It will be fought out in court I'm sure. There is no link to the original
    statement. I'd really like to know what it was.
    The absolute rabid hatred coming from the left towards Bush makes it pretty
    easy to be paranoid for people whose job is to keep the president alive.
    The second story is pure [censored], but look at Ruby Ridge, Waco, and dozens of
    other previous FBI / DEA stormtrooper [censored]. This [censored] has been going on since
    at least J. Edgar's time. Isolated incidents are NOT a reason to panic like a
    lot of people are doing. They ARE a reason to fight back and make your voice
    heard.
    BTW Kyle the activities of GSG9, and the German anti-terrorist boys make the
    US types look like choirboys.
    Bill C

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