new jacket invented

spindrift said:

Paris:
The number of road accidents in France has decreased more that 85
percent since the installation of automatic traffic radars
last year,

Wow! An 85% decrease in road accidents in 1 year! Sounds too good to
be true, doesn't it. Do you have the source for that phenomenal news?

To put it into context, ours dropped by just 17%, from 238,923 to
198,735 in the 7 years from 1998 to 2005.

--
Matt B

wafflycat said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=476237&in_page_id=1965

From the inventor...

"It is so dangerous without bike lanes"

I know they want to emphasise the jacket but shouldn't the bloke in the
video have some lights on his bike?

Noel

wafflycat' w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology....

From the inventor...

"It is so dangerous without bike lanes"

I think the brake light is a good idea at least - certainly ive often
had cars in traffic queues (even in the day) almost run over me when
ive stopped for one reason or another.

NEWS RELEASE

Embargoed until 2.00pm (CET) Monday, 11 June 2007

France's outstanding success celebrated at 1st PIN Conference
11 June 2007, Brussels - France's achievements in reducing road deaths
and traffic
dangers got Europe-wide acclaim and recognition at the 1st Road Safety
PIN(1)
Conference today.

In the past several years, France has reduced road deaths more than
any other
European country. Between 2001 and 2005, the yearly number of deaths
decreased by
35%, or 2 844, the best result among EU countries both in terms of
percentage(2) and
absolute figures(3). The country has become the greatest contributor
to the European
target of halving the number of road deaths by 2010.

This success has mainly been achieved by raising compliance with key
traffic safety
law. Fighting traffic violations on all fronts, France is the only
country in the EU which
has been able to reduce driving speeds on all types of roads by 6% to
11% in the past
half decade(4). This has been shown to be the single most important
factor in the
country's road safety success(5). France also has one of the highest
levels of seat belt
wearing in the front seats(6).

These outstanding results have been achieved because improving road
safety was
hailed as one of the top national priorities by the French authorities
back in 2002.

This
was supported by strict police enforcement and gradual change in
attitude and
behaviour on the part of the general French public, including the
driving community.
Starting in 2003, France has introduced a fully automated speed camera
system
featuring about 1,500 fixed and mobile devices, and tightened police
checks and
sanctions for all major traffic offences. French driving culture has
been revolutionised,
which turned a country that used to be responsible for 16% of Europe's
road deaths
into a leader in road safety progress in just four years.

Receiving the PIN Award for her country's outstanding success, Cécile
Petit, France's
Interministerial Delegate for Road Safety said:

"The French result is very encouraging.

Some 10 400 fewer people were killed and 130 000 fewer wounded over
only five
years. But the result is still fragile. This is why we need to
continue to show that road
injury is not inevitable. A sound road safety policy must include
ambitious and longterm
prevention measures, backed up by strict enforcement. To be fully
effective, this
policy must tackle all risk factors, including those related to
infrastructure, vehicle and
users, and involve all national and local actors."

"France's success shows that fast progress depends crucially on
political leadership in
combination with a sound, evidence-based policy", said ETSC(7)
Excutive Director Jörg
Beckmann. "It also shows that reducing driving speeds is possible and
yields great safety
benefits."

For more information please go to www.etsc.be/PIN or contact ETSC
Communication
Officer Evgueni Pogorelov at [email hidden] , tel. +32 (0)2
230 41 06 or
mobile +32 (0)484 94 87 09.
Notes to Editors:
(1) The Road Safety Performance Index (PIN), launched in June 2006,
compares road safety
performances of 27 European countries. See www.etsc.be/PIN.
(2) Change in road deaths in European countries between 2001 and 2005
(in %). Source: CARE
and national data
-40
-35
-30
-25
-20
-15
-10
-5
0
5
10
France
Luxembourg
Belgium
Portugal
Switzerland
Sweden
Netherlands
Denmark
Germany
Latvia
Austria
Spain
Norway
Italy
Estonia
Finland
Greece
Slovakia
U.K.
Slovenia
Czech Republic
Ireland
Poland
Hungary
Cyprus
Malta
Lithuania
(3) European Commission (EC) 2007: Road Safety: How is your country
doing?
(4) Development in the mean speed of passenger cars on all road types
together (in km/h).
Source: ONSR
(5) The French Road Safety Observatory has calculated that 75% of the
31% drop in road
traffic deaths between 2002 and 2005 could be attributed to improved
speed management
based on a new automated camera system. Observatoire national
interministériel de sécurité
routière (ONSR) 2006: Impact du contrôle sanction automatisé sur la
sécurité routière (2003-
2005). Paris, France
(6) European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) 2007: Raising Compliance
with Road Safety Law.
1st Road Safety PIN Report
(7) The European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) is a Brussels-based
independent non-profit
making organisation dedicated to the reduction of the number and
severity of transport
crashes in Europe. The ETSC seeks to identify and promote research-
based measures with a
high safety potential. It brings together 37 national and
international organisations concerned
with transport safety from across Europe. See www.etsc.be

http://www.etsc.be/documents.php?did=1

Speed is the leading killer on roads in Europe, according to the World
Health
Organisation (3). Génon Jensen, Executive Director for Health &
Environment
Alliance says: "WHO says estimates for the European Union (EU)
indicate that
reducing the average driving speed by only 3 km/h would mean 120,000
fewer
crashes and 5,000 few deaths each year."

Ibid.

Quoted message said:

(5) The French Road Safety Observatory has calculated that 75% of the
31% drop in road
traffic deaths between 2002 and 2005 could be attributed to improved
speed management
based on a new automated camera system. Observatoire national
interminist‚riel de s‚curit‚
routiŠre (ONSR) 2006: Impact du contr“le sanction automatis‚ sur la
s‚curit‚ routiŠre (2003-
2005). Paris, France

Interesting...

--
Mark T

spindrift said:

In the past several years, France has reduced road deaths more than any
other
European country. Between 2001 and 2005, the yearly number of deaths
decreased by
35%, or 2 844, the best result among EU countries both in terms of
percentage(2) and
absolute figures(3). The country has become the greatest contributor to
the European
target of halving the number of road deaths by 2010.

Yebbut if a 35% decrease was 2,844 deaths that means they started off
with 8,125 deaths per annum, which given they have approx the same
population as the UK, is almost three times the UK level. Even after the
reduction it will be 75% higher than in the UK.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

On 20 Aug, 18:05, Mark T
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(5) The French Road Safety Observatory has calculated that 75% of the
31% drop in road
traffic deaths between 2002 and 2005 could be attributed to improved
speed management
based on a new automated camera system. Observatoire national
interminist,riel de s,curit,
routiŠre (ONSR) 2006: Impact du contr"le sanction automatis, sur la
s,curit, routiŠre (2003-
2005). Paris, France

Interesting...

--
Mark T

On 20 Aug, 18:05, Mark T
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(5) The French Road Safety Observatory has calculated that 75% of the
31% drop in road
traffic deaths between 2002 and 2005 could be attributed to improved
speed management
based on a new automated camera system. Observatoire national
interminist,riel de s,curit,
routiŠre (ONSR) 2006: Impact du contr"le sanction automatis, sur la
s,curit, routiŠre (2003-
2005). Paris, France

Interesting...

--
Mark T

Jolly interesting, and ignored in the mainstream UK press.

New initiatives on road safety in France and Belgium have achieved
positive results with a major decrease in injuries and death. The
changing trends have been highlighted by the European Transport Safety
Council.

In both countries, traditionally performing very poorly in this
regard, new road safety policies have been devised in the last years.
They are focused on measures to improve driver behaviour such as
increased police enforcement and higher traffic fines.

As a result, traffic fatalities have dropped significantly in both
countries.

http://www.epha.org/a/1662

spindrift said:

In the past several years, France has reduced road deaths more than
any other
European country. Between 2001 and 2005, the yearly number of deaths
decreased by
35%, or 2 844, the best result among EU countries both in terms of
percentage(2) and
absolute figures(3). The country has become the greatest contributor
to the European
target of halving the number of road deaths by 2010.

Despite our lost progress, and even stagnation, during our camera years,
our roads still have half the death rate of those in France*, they still
have a long way to go to catch us.

* Deaths per billion vehicle km: France 9.9, UK 4.9 (RCGB 2005)

--
Matt B

spindrift said:

On 20 Aug, 18:05, Mark T
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(5) The French Road Safety Observatory has calculated that 75% of the
31% drop in road
traffic deaths between 2002 and 2005 could be attributed to improved
speed management
based on a new automated camera system. Observatoire national
interminist,riel de s,curit,
routiŠre (ONSR) 2006: Impact du contr"le sanction automatis, sur la
s,curit, routiŠre (2003-
2005). Paris, France

Interesting...

Jolly interesting, and ignored in the mainstream UK press.

The fact that you haven't read it before is a reflection on you - not on
the press.

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6597743.stm>
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article627620.ece>
<http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/article840609.ece>
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,,398081,00.html>
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,2103840,00.html>
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/29/wbrake29.xml>
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/10/wfran10.xml>

--
Matt B

"Yebbut if a 35% decrease was 2,844 deaths that means they started
off
with 8,125 deaths per annum, which given they have approx the same
population as the UK, is almost three times the UK level. Even after
the
reduction it will be 75% higher than in the UK. "

More than that I think, but it's clear evidence along with the decline
in RTAs at camera sites in the UK that cameras work brilliantly,. Once
traffic growth is allowed for the roads are getting safer generally
and much safer at camera locations, and as Howard has pointed out our
child fatality rates compare very badly with the rest of Europe.

This is the real evidence of the efficacy of cameras and it's tragic
that notorious liar Paul Smith does his usual trick and claims that
the success of cameras in France is a myth because, he claims, France
does not have safety cameras!

Quote:

"None-speed-camera countries- GB, Sweden, France, Austria"

End quote:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/international2.html

France actually has a camera every 600 kilometers of roads.

Paul Smith's lies are exposed. Again.

Ace said:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:12:27 -0700, spindrift <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

France has clamped down severely on speeding- a major factor
in discouraging cycling-

Rubbish. I don't believe for a second that French would-be cyclists
were ever put off by sorries about speeding.

Beware of Spindrift, I think he makes things up on the spur of the
moment and so is a permanent resident of my kf.

--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record sprint mongrel
Huissoon project bike (in bits, natch)

In article <[email hidden]>,
spindrift <[email hidden]> writes:
|>
|> "The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety blamed the
|> increase on more inexperienced cyclists taking to the roads. "
|>
|> A ten per cent rise in accidents and an 83% rise in cycling, ...

An 83% rise in cycling between 2004 and 2005? What happened in 2006? :-)

Do you have a reference for that, er, startling figure?

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

spindrift said:

"Yebbut if a 35% decrease was 2,844 deaths that means they started
off
with 8,125 deaths per annum, which given they have approx the same
population as the UK, is almost three times the UK level. Even after
the
reduction it will be 75% higher than in the UK. "

More than that I think, but it's clear evidence along with the decline
in RTAs at camera sites in the UK that cameras work brilliantly,.

Do you think it's brilliant that our downward trend in casualties, which
was the envy of Europe until we introduced cameras, has stopped???

Quoted message said:

Once
traffic growth is allowed for the roads are getting safer generally
and much safer at camera locations,

Where is the evidence?

Quoted message said:

and as Howard has pointed out our
child fatality rates compare very badly with the rest of Europe.

That's a _bad_ thing, not "brilliant", to most of us.

Quoted message said:

This is the real evidence of the efficacy of cameras

Exactly, casualty reduction has bottom-out, appalling child casualty
rate, and It's a disgrace isn't it.

Quoted message said:

France actually has a camera every 600 kilometers of roads.

We we have about 6000 cameras to our 388000 km of road. That's 1 per 65
km of road. They've got a long way to go yet! Let's hope they don't
halt their road safety progress like we have ours.

--
Matt B

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:13:23 -0500, "mb" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Beware of Spindrift, I think he makes things up on the spur of the
moment and so is a permanent resident of my kf.

Yeah, he's gone into mine now.
--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

"Do you have a reference for that, er, startling figure? "

Yep, same ones I've posted ad nauseum:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modalpages/972.aspx

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modalpages/3188.aspx

http://mayor.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=11791

London's bike boom continues
16:45, May 1st 2007 by Carlton Reid
The number of cyclists on the capital's major roads increased by a
further six per cent between March 2006 and March 2007. The number of
cyclists in London has soared by 83 per cent since 2000. PLUS: a new
telly ad campaign starts soon
The new figures revealed today, came as Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of
London, launched a new TV advertising campaign, 'You're better off by
bike', to encourage even more Londoners to take to their bikes this
summer.

here are now an estimated 480,000 cycle journeys every day across
London, around 30,000 more than a year ago.

The Mayor of London and Transport for London have increased investment
in cycling by 50 per cent this year from £24 million in 2006/07 to £36
million in 2007/08. In 2000 investment in cycling stood at just £5.5
million.

500kms of the London Cycle Network Plus - a network of signed routes
for cyclists across the capital - has already been completed and the
full 900km network will be completed by the end of 2010. Transport for
London has installed 10,000 cycling parking spaces across the capital
in the past two years.

While cycling numbers have risen by 83 per cent, the number of
cyclists killed or seriously injured on London's roads has fallen by
28 per cent.

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/news/26852/Londons-bike-boom-continues

Note the last paragraph which confirms what I've always said:

1/

The more cyclists there are the safer the roads become

2/

The more drivers who recklessly speed, the more cyclists are driven
off the roads.

Evidence?

Well, my own personal experience of twenty years of cycling, the views
of parents of childrn encouraged to cycle to school who cite reckless,
selfish speeders as a major disincentive. We need to blow out of the
water the idea that speeding is only bad when someone is killed or put
in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives- speeding DOES NOT have to
cause an fatal collision or scrape a child across the asphalt for it
to be selfish, anti-social behaviour.

Shame you can't read this MB and Ace, I'd appreciate you letting me
know what I've "made up" and I'll apologise and withdraw, if you are
right.

spindrift said:

"Yebbut if a 35% decrease was 2,844 deaths that means they started off
with 8,125 deaths per annum, which given they have approx the same
population as the UK, is almost three times the UK level. Even after
the
reduction it will be 75% higher than in the UK. "

More than that I think, but it's clear evidence along with the decline
in RTAs at camera sites in the UK that cameras work brilliantly,. Once
traffic growth is allowed for the roads are getting safer generally and
much safer at camera locations, and as Howard has pointed out our child
fatality rates compare very badly with the rest of Europe.

No its not. It clear evidence that the French roads are a whole load
more dangerous than the UK ones for reasons that are varied and complex
no doubt since it was long before traffic cameras came on the scene that
the UK had such high levels of road deaths (probably around the 1970's or
earlier although I can't lay my hands on the numbers at the moment)
--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Ace said:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:38:53 -0700, spindrift <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Oh, and you're (still) wrong about the idea that a motorist is always
to blame in a cycle or pedestrian collision. We had this discussion
recently in a x-posted thread with ukrm where first-hand experience
showed otherwise.

Ah, the old usenet trick of anecdote trumping, well, everything.

Quoted message said:

Find me a reliable reference for this assertion if you can - I'd be
most interested.

http://www.fga.fr/Guide%20anglaisF%20081104.doc

In short, non-driver victims are fully compensated for their injuries,
unless they are guilty of gross negligence which was the sole cause of
the accident or they caused it deliberately, in which case they get
nothing.

The victim's property (his bike, say) may be compensated for either
fully or partially or not at all, depending on the level of the victim's
miscreancy.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as spindrift
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

"The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety blamed the
increase on more inexperienced cyclists taking to the roads. "

A ten per cent rise in accidents and an 83% rise in cycling, thus
disproving the PACTS contention and adding weight to the general rule
that the more cyclists there are on the roads the safer the roads
become. France has clamped down severely on speeding- a major factor
in discouraging cycling-

Can you prove that assertion? Almost all of the times I've been put at
risk by motor vehicle drivers while cycling, speed has had nothing to do
with it. The old guy who tried to pull out of a t-junction when I was
less than 2 feet away (and had right of way) was doing less than walking
pace. The car that passed with about one inch of room while pulling
away from traffic lights was probably doing no more than 20mph. The
taxi who tried to drive over me a few years back was also going at
walking pace, just didn't believe he should give way to a cyclist,
regardless of the white lines on the road.

If I'm riding along a normal urban 30mph road and someone goes past at
40 or even 50 but leaves plenty of room, they don't put me off cycling.
The ones doing 20 who slow down further to shout abuse and throw things,
they are the ones who cause the problem.

Speeding is certainly a problem - I can think of a few places I'd like
to see cameras (even dummy ones) put up to slow the traffic - but there
are bigger problems than speeding out there. What we really need is a
law that forces people to drive considerately, and always put other road
users before themselves. No idea how you implement such a thing though.

NP: Cauda Pavonis - The Morrigan.
--
- DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>
Hard Rock, Leeds <http://www.hard-rock.org.uk>
Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

spindrift said:

http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/news/26852/Londons-bike-boom-continues

Note the last paragraph which confirms what I've always said:

1/

The more cyclists there are the safer the roads become

2/

The more drivers who recklessly speed, the more cyclists are driven
off the roads.

Not wishing to play devils advocate here but I dont think speed itself
is the danger or the scary thing - I ride on 60mph dual carriageways
and im rarely scared by anything passing me. However in the centre of
the city with cars doing less than 20 I'm on high alert and generally
have a raised heart rate to match it, and its there that I get most of
my near-misses with cars.

"CoyoteBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 20 Aug, 22:12, spindrift <[email hidden]> wrote:
Not wishing to play devils advocate here but I dont think speed itself
is the danger or the scary thing - I ride on 60mph dual carriageways
and im rarely scared by anything passing me. However in the centre of
the city with cars doing less than 20 I'm on high alert and generally
have a raised heart rate to match it, and its there that I get most of
my near-misses with cars.

I have to admit one of my least favourite parts of my commute is the 1 mile
section along the A29 which has a long straight section which encourages
high speeds. There seems to be a large variance in the amount of room
overtaking traffic gives me, with some using the whole width of the road and
others passing close enough to give me a buffeting despite having loads of
space to pass. I don't understand it really.