Muscle aches and statins

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor and
6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.

John

John,

Thanks for a thoughtful and clear post. That sort of thing is becoming rare
in this newsgroup.

I've been on Pravachol for approximately 7 years, with a 10mg dosage. Both
before and after beginning to use Pravachol, I regularly engaged in both
moderately heavy aerobics (30 minutes minimum) and weight training
(Nautilus). Even though I developed a herniated disc along the way which
has relugated me to the sidelines for various periods of time, I have never
had any muscle soreness or muscle weakness that could be attributed to the
Pravachol, or any other side effects for that matter. I do take periodic
blood tests to monitor liver functions, as recommended by my doctors and by
the makers of Pravachol.

Recently, I've been advised to double the Pravachol dosage because studies
now indicate that for folks with CAD, LDL levels of less than 100 mg/L are
benefical. I've been on the increased dosage going on two weeks now, and
have experienced no side effects.

While you state that you are among those who experience side effects from
Pravachol, not everyone does. In fact, the vast majority of those using
statins, and interestingly, Pravachol in particular, do not. All statin
drugs all come with warnings that they may have negative effects on liver
function and may produce muscle soreness. Any doctor prescribing the drug
should tell that to the prospective receipient of the drug. Moreover,
anyone who receives a prescription for any drug should look into the side
effects on their own.

While you are more than entitled to your opinion, and undoubtedly your
opinion reflects your experience, you should not be telling folks that
Pravachol _will_ produce the side effects that you experienced. That is a
distortion of the facts, and you could be hurting more folks than you are
helping be doing that.

No, I'm not a doctor or in the pharmaceutical industry.

Steve
--
The above posting is neither a legal opinion nor legal advice,
because we do not have an attorney-client relationship, and
should not be construed as either. This posting does not
represent the opinion of my employer, but is merely my personal
view. To reply, delete _spamout_ and replace with the numeral 3

John said:

How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor and
6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.

John

Thank you for communicating your experiences, John.
I made the original post because, although I was almost certain that I
had had an exercise injury, I was curious to see if anyone knew how
statin-related muscle pain might present initially. I can accept that
the effects might be subtle in some, although I for one would be
prepared to trade off some negative subtleties against the positives
indicated in double blind trials.
I have been on Lipitor for almost eight years; my current dose
is 40mg because my cardiologist is one that agrees with the studies
that indicate <100 mg/L is better. I am 57 in a few weeks and I
exercise aerobically for at least an hour on alternate days at up to
95% intensity. My left upper arm injury was the first persistent, not
unexplained muscle pain that I had experienced in those almost eight
years. Perhaps I should have gone to an orthopaedist but the pain was
very limited in extent.
I have had two private email communications telling me of
experiences with muscle pain and with other symptoms, one of which,
cognitive deficit, I am also interested in. I was first curious about
this initially because of the reported 'pump head' effects - mostly
short but sometimes long term - in some people after being on a bypass
machine. I subsequently revived my interest after reading of the
apparent statin effect. I can only report that six months, and then
seven years, after my 3xCABG, my IQ magnitudes and test-dependent IQ
spread were entirely comparable to that found when I was 11 years old.

Pete C

In article <P9Bfb.51712$a16.26678@lakeread01>, Steve Marcus

Quoted message said:

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor and
6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.

John

John,

Thanks for a thoughtful and clear post. That sort of thing is becoming rare
in this newsgroup.

I've been on Pravachol for approximately 7 years, with a 10mg dosage. Both
before and after beginning to use Pravachol, I regularly engaged in both
moderately heavy aerobics (30 minutes minimum) and weight training
(Nautilus). Even though I developed a herniated disc along the way which
has relugated me to the sidelines for various periods of time, I have never
had any muscle soreness or muscle weakness that could be attributed to the
Pravachol, or any other side effects for that matter. I do take periodic
blood tests to monitor liver functions, as recommended by my doctors and by
the makers of Pravachol.

Recently, I've been advised to double the Pravachol dosage because studies
now indicate that for folks with CAD, LDL levels of less than 100 mg/L are
benefical. I've been on the increased dosage going on two weeks now, and
have experienced no side effects.

While you state that you are among those who experience side effects from
Pravachol, not everyone does. In fact, the vast majority of those using
statins, and interestingly, Pravachol in particular, do not. All statin
drugs all come with warnings that they may have negative effects on liver
function and may produce muscle soreness. Any doctor prescribing the drug
should tell that to the prospective receipient of the drug. Moreover,
anyone who receives a prescription for any drug should look into the side
effects on their own.

While you are more than entitled to your opinion, and undoubtedly your
opinion reflects your experience, you should not be telling folks that
Pravachol _will_ produce the side effects that you experienced. That is a
distortion of the facts, and you could be hurting more folks than you are
helping be doing that.

No, I'm not a doctor or in the pharmaceutical industry.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the response and the admonishment. Let me clarify/supplement
my remarks.

During the 5 years I was on Lipitor, I had several episodes of
Transient Global Amnesia, and experienced my first ever migraine
headaches. Also during this period I tended toward soreness in my
muscles even though I exercise regularly and have for 35 years. About 1
year ago, my LDL level began to go up, so my Dr. increased my Lipitor
from 10mg to 20mg a day. After about two months at that dosage, I was
having 2- 3 migraines a week, I could "feel" my brain all the time, and
my muscles were beginning to both hurt and weaken. So, my Dr put me on
20mg of Pravachol, and in a a couple of weeks the migraines had
stopped, I no longer "felt" my brain, and my muscles and joints were
beginning to feel stronger with less pain. I continued at 20mg of
Pravachol for about 3 months, had bloodwork done, and my Dr decided to
raise my Pravachol to 40mg. After about 2 weeks at that level, the
muscle weakness and joint pain started up again. However, I hasten to
add that my brain felt fine: no migraines, no brain awareness. Now my
Dr has put me on Zetia saying (good naturedly) that I flunked 2 statin
tests.

Here's what I think: Dosage is all. I also believe that the effects of
Statins for some people are subtle at low dosages and may go virtually
unrecognized by them. I also think that Pravachol leaves the brain
alone but not the muscles and joints whereas Lipitor gets into both.

John

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <P9Bfb.51712$a16.26678@lakeread01>, Steve Marcus

Quoted message said:

"John" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How quickly people go off topic when discussing muscle pain. Pete
Conner's original question had to do with STATINS and muscle pain, and
I can addd to that question by saying that after 5 years on Lipitor

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

6 months on Pravachol, I am convinced that Statins not only weaken
muscles but are also opportunistic to pre-existent areas of muscle and
joint soreness. I have been statin free for one month now, and all the
aches and pains I have been attributuing to age (I'm 61), have
disappeared. Statins are sometimes subtle in their side effects.

John

John,

Thanks for a thoughtful and clear post. That sort of thing is becoming

rare

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in this newsgroup.

I've been on Pravachol for approximately 7 years, with a 10mg dosage.

Both

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

before and after beginning to use Pravachol, I regularly engaged in both
moderately heavy aerobics (30 minutes minimum) and weight training
(Nautilus). Even though I developed a herniated disc along the way

which

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has relugated me to the sidelines for various periods of time, I have

never

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

had any muscle soreness or muscle weakness that could be attributed to

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pravachol, or any other side effects for that matter. I do take

periodic

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

blood tests to monitor liver functions, as recommended by my doctors and

by

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the makers of Pravachol.

Recently, I've been advised to double the Pravachol dosage because

studies

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

now indicate that for folks with CAD, LDL levels of less than 100 mg/L

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

benefical. I've been on the increased dosage going on two weeks now,

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have experienced no side effects.

While you state that you are among those who experience side effects

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pravachol, not everyone does. In fact, the vast majority of those using
statins, and interestingly, Pravachol in particular, do not. All statin
drugs all come with warnings that they may have negative effects on

liver

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

function and may produce muscle soreness. Any doctor prescribing the

drug

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should tell that to the prospective receipient of the drug. Moreover,
anyone who receives a prescription for any drug should look into the

side

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

effects on their own.

While you are more than entitled to your opinion, and undoubtedly your
opinion reflects your experience, you should not be telling folks that
Pravachol _will_ produce the side effects that you experienced. That is

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

distortion of the facts, and you could be hurting more folks than you

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

helping be doing that.

No, I'm not a doctor or in the pharmaceutical industry.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the response and the admonishment. Let me clarify/supplement
my remarks.

During the 5 years I was on Lipitor, I had several episodes of
Transient Global Amnesia, and experienced my first ever migraine
headaches. Also during this period I tended toward soreness in my
muscles even though I exercise regularly and have for 35 years. About 1
year ago, my LDL level began to go up, so my Dr. increased my Lipitor
from 10mg to 20mg a day. After about two months at that dosage, I was
having 2- 3 migraines a week, I could "feel" my brain all the time, and
my muscles were beginning to both hurt and weaken. So, my Dr put me on
20mg of Pravachol, and in a a couple of weeks the migraines had
stopped, I no longer "felt" my brain, and my muscles and joints were
beginning to feel stronger with less pain. I continued at 20mg of
Pravachol for about 3 months, had bloodwork done, and my Dr decided to
raise my Pravachol to 40mg. After about 2 weeks at that level, the
muscle weakness and joint pain started up again. However, I hasten to
add that my brain felt fine: no migraines, no brain awareness. Now my
Dr has put me on Zetia saying (good naturedly) that I flunked 2 statin
tests.

Here's what I think: Dosage is all. I also believe that the effects of
Statins for some people are subtle at low dosages and may go virtually
unrecognized by them. I also think that Pravachol leaves the brain
alone but not the muscles and joints whereas Lipitor gets into both.

Zetia seems to be a nice drug, and the reports are favorable when it is used
both by itself and in combination with statins. I hope that it works well
for you. Interestingly, when I asked my doctor about it, he said that it
was a drug that he really thought was great, but he declined to prescribe it
for me on the grounds that my experience with Pravachol was so positive that
he saw no need to disturb it by introducing another drug.

People are indeed individuals. I would agree that there are some people who
cannot tolerate statins at all, and more who can tolerate some of the
statins without any of the side effects, but can not tolerate other statins.
And there are people who would be able to tolerate any of the statins (save,
perhaps Baycol); however this is sort of irrelevant since if one can
tolerate the statin chosen by one's doctor, there's no need to look further.

People who have cardiac issues should see the appropriate physician.
Everyone should have regular checkups that include blood work that in turn
includes lipid panels. In both cases, people should thereafter follow the
advice of their doctor; if a statin is prescribed, the prescription should
be used with the appropriate in-progress blood work to check on both the
progress with reducing cholesterol level and in particular LDL levels, and
liver function. This, coupled with the appropriate life-style changes as
recommend by one's physician, seems to me to be the prudent course of
action.

Quoted message said:

John

Steve
--
The above posting is neither a legal opinion nor legal advice,
because we do not have an attorney-client relationship, and
should not be construed as either. This posting does not
represent the opinion of my employer, but is merely my personal
view. To reply, delete _spamout_ and replace with the numeral 3