MTB Racer - RIP

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 01 May 2004 02:58:03 GMT, Brett Jaffee

<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in
.:"]news:[email hidden]: . .>
velonews.com5962.0.htmlOpen ↗ .
.That's pretty much the exception that proves the
rule...he was hit by a .car!

No, he wasn't. He ran into the car. Read the article.

If he was riding his mountain bike on the dirt where
it belings, he would not have hit the car, or been hit
by the car.

You, sir, are an idiot. You complain that bikes beling on
paved roads and not on dirt, but you use accidents that
happen on those paved roads as proof that your position is
appropriate. This is called a fallacy. You are a fallacy of
so many varieties that it is difficult to keep them all
categorized and organized.

Jeff Strickland said:

a fallacy of so many varieties that it is difficult to keep
them all categorized and organized.

This URL will at least give a well-structured listing of the
more common logical fallacies.

datanation.comindex.htmOpen ↗

The surrounding discusion threads will provide ample
examples of fallacies "in the wild," as it were.

Pete H

--
Either everyone has rights or some have privileges. It's
really that simple. Walt Kelly

On Mon, 3 May 2004 10:14:44 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote:

. ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> On
Sat, 01 May 2004 02:58:03 GMT, Brett Jaffee
.<[email hidden]> .> wrote: .> .> .Mike Vandeman
<[email hidden]> wrote in .>
.:"]news:[email hidden]: .> . .> .>
velonews.com5962.0.htmlOpen ↗ .> .
.> .That's pretty much the exception that proves the
rule...he was hit by a .> .car! .> .> No, he wasn't. He ran
into the car. Read the article. . .If he was riding his
mountain bike on the dirt where it belings, he would .not
have hit the car, or been hit by the car. . .You, sir, are
an idiot. You complain that bikes beling on paved roads and
.not on dirt, but you use accidents that happen on those
paved roads as proof .that your position is appropriate.
This is called a fallacy. You are a .fallacy of so many
varieties that it is difficult to keep them all .categorized
and organized.

If he weren't in a mountain bike race, he wouldn't have
died! YOU are one of the reasons he's dead, since you
suport this BS.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 3 May 2004 10:14:44 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

. ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> On
Sat, 01 May 2004 02:58:03 GMT, Brett Jaffee
.<[email hidden]> .> wrote: .> .> .Mike
Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in .>
.:"]news:[email hidden]: .> . .>
.> velonews.com5962.0.htmlOpen ↗
.> . .> .That's pretty much the exception that proves the
rule...he was hit by a .> .car! .> .> No, he wasn't. He
ran into the car. Read the article. . .If he was riding
his mountain bike on the dirt where it belings, he would
.not have hit the car, or been hit by the car. . .You,
sir, are an idiot. You complain that bikes beling on paved
roads and .not on dirt, but you use accidents that happen
on those paved roads as proof .that your position is
appropriate. This is called a fallacy. You are a .fallacy
of so many varieties that it is difficult to keep them all
.categorized and organized.

If he weren't in a mountain bike race, he wouldn't
have died!

When did you first realize that you could predict
peoples deaths, Doc? And if you knew for a fact that he
wouldn't have died if he had not been at a race, why
didn't you warn him?

Perhaps, you should consider a sig that says "Mike Vandeman
O.B. (Omniscient Being).

<snip>

R

Quoted message said:

If he weren't in a mountain bike race, he wouldn't have
died! YOU are one

of the

Quoted message said:

reasons he's dead, since you suport this BS.

So, now you blame the victim? That's rich.

If he were riding (racing) on the dirt where a mountain bike
BELONGS, he would not have been hit by an SUV speeding down
the middle of the road taking his half out of the middle.
YOU are the one that says bikes BELONG on the pavement, but
then you use the example of riding on pavement to support
your warped agenda. YOU are the reason he is dead because
you herd bikes onto roads and streets where automobile
traffic is, and any idiot knows that a bike rider will lose
in any impact with a car or truck.

Quoted message said:

#2. He wasn't hit by the SUV, he hit the SUV's mirror,
# broke the window of
the SUV as he got ejected, and then his head passed
through the access ladder on the side of the SUV.

And the difference is what? The SUV was "reportedly" driving
in the middle of the road, and the bike rider and the SUV
impacted one another. The result is a dead bike rider, and
an injured bike rider that also struck the SUV, and several
bike riders that all struck each other.

The only difference in who struck who is to lay blame on one
party or the other. There is no benefit to laying blame on
anybody in this discussioin, the result is still the same -
a bike rider lay dead because he was riding in the road,
precisely where Vandeman says bikes belong for, among other
things, safety reasons.

Loons like Vandeman must not go unchallenged because to not
challenge his ignorance is to accept it.

"Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

#2. He wasn't hit by the SUV, he hit the SUV's mirror,
# broke the window

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the SUV as he got ejected, and then his head passed
through the access ladder on the side of the SUV.

And the difference is what? The SUV was "reportedly"
driving in the middle of the road, and the bike rider and
the SUV impacted one another. The

result

Quoted message said:

is a dead bike rider, and an injured bike rider that also
struck the SUV, and several bike riders that all struck
each other.

The difference is that you are just as much of a loon as
your boy-toy eco freak.

You are both equally clueless as far as the facts are
concerned, yet continue to virtually stroke each other off,
to the amusement, with a healthy dose of pity, of many.

Fine. When they come and erect a gate across your favorite
trail, remember that you ignored the warning signs.

Personally, I am going to be [censored] that an idiot like
Vandeman, and there are many idiots just like him, can exert
such influence over clear logic. When my trails get closed,
Vandeman and his merry cohorts are the first that come to
mind. They come around bearing false science and hysteria
that the world is crumbling, and the obvious solution is a
new gate. Yeah, right.

The issue here is not which vehicle struck which, the issue
here is that Vandeman and his idiot friends think the
solution to the entire world is another gate. THEY WANT YOU
TO SIT AT HOME IN YOUR LIVING ROOM! Doesn't that concern
you? It bothers me greatly.

"p e t e f a g e r l i n"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

#2. He wasn't hit by the SUV, he hit the SUV's mirror,
# broke the

window

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the SUV as he got ejected, and then his head passed
through the access ladder on the side of the SUV.

And the difference is what? The SUV was "reportedly"
driving in the

middle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the road, and the bike rider and the SUV impacted one
another. The

result

Quoted message said:

is a dead bike rider, and an injured bike rider that
also struck the

SUV,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and several bike riders that all struck each other.

The difference is that you are just as much of a loon as
your boy-toy eco freak.

You are both equally clueless as far as the facts are
concerned, yet continue to virtually stroke each
other off, to the amusement, with a healthy dose of
pity, of many.

"Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fine. When they come and erect a gate across your favorite
trail, remember that you ignored the warning signs.

Personally, I am going to be [censored] that an idiot like
Vandeman, and there are many idiots just like him, can
exert such influence over clear logic. When my trails get
closed, Vandeman and his merry cohorts are the first

that

Quoted message said:

come to mind. They come around bearing false science and
hysteria that the world is crumbling, and the obvious
solution is a new gate. Yeah, right.

The issue here is not which vehicle struck which, the
issue here is that Vandeman and his idiot friends think
the solution to the entire world is another gate. THEY
WANT YOU TO SIT AT HOME IN YOUR LIVING ROOM! Doesn't

that

Quoted message said:

concern you? It bothers me greatly.

But debating the demented one here on Usenet does little if
anything. (and No, Mikey, not because you are *right*.
Because you aren't)

At most, a few thousand people will ever read this. And very
few of them are Mikey supporters.

Endless scribling in here *is* "sitting at home in your
living room". Unless you also get out to any trail
closure hearings, do some trail maint, toss a few $$ to
IMBA (or whoever).

Trail closures do not happen in here. They happen in public
meetings. Get out into the public.

Pete

Jeff Strickland said:

Fine. When they come and erect a gate across your favorite
trail, remember that you ignored the warning signs.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

If you truly believe that the ranting s of that idiot, and
you counter rantings, have any negative effect on trail
access, you are even more idiotic than your posts indicate.

Quite the contrary. Vandeman has actually helped MTB access
in my area because his manifestos paint the HOHAs with his
deranged brush.

Quoted message said:

Personally, I am going to be [censored] that an idiot like
Vandeman, and there are many idiots just like him, can
exert such influence over clear logic.

That's a huge assumption on your part. "Such
influence"????????

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Quoted message said:

The issue here is not which vehicle struck which,

Sure it is. You're spewing the same kind of misinformation
that your boy toy is. Peas in a pod.

Quoted message said:

THEY WANT YOU TO SIT AT HOME IN YOUR LIVING ROOM! Doesn't
that concern you? It bothers me greatly.

You need to seek professional help.

Seriously.

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fine. When they come and erect a gate across your
favorite trail,

remember

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you ignored the warning signs.

Personally, I am going to be [censored] that an idiot like
Vandeman, and

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are many idiots just like him, can exert such influence
over clear

logic.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When my trails get closed, Vandeman and his merry
cohorts are the first

that

Quoted message said:

come to mind. They come around bearing false science and
hysteria that

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

world is crumbling, and the obvious solution is a new
gate. Yeah, right.

The issue here is not which vehicle struck which, the
issue here is that Vandeman and his idiot friends think
the solution to the entire world is another gate. THEY
WANT YOU TO SIT AT HOME IN YOUR LIVING ROOM! Doesn't

that

Quoted message said:

concern you? It bothers me greatly.

But debating the demented one here on Usenet does little
if anything. (and No, Mikey, not because you are *right*.
Because you aren't)

At most, a few thousand people will ever read this. And
very few of them

are

Quoted message said:

Mikey supporters.

Endless scribling in here *is* "sitting at home in your
living room".

Unless

Quoted message said:

you also get out to any trail closure hearings, do some
trail maint, toss

a

Quoted message said:

few $$ to IMBA (or whoever).

I do all of those things, do you? Well, I do not give my
money to the IMBA, I give it to California Association of 4
Wheel Drive Clubs. Different group, same goal - keep open
access to public lands.

Quoted message said:

Trail closures do not happen in here. They happen in
public meetings. Get out into the public.

We should all get out to the meetings if for no other reason
that Mike gets out to them. If just the few thousand that
you suggest will at most see this post got out to the
meetings to rail against the likes of Mike, we would be in a
better position to block the erection of the next gate
across the trail.

On Wed, 5 May 2004 09:14:38 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.Fine. When they come and erect a gate across your favorite
trail, remember .that you ignored the warning signs. .
.Personally, I am going to be [censored] that an idiot like
Vandeman, and there .are many idiots just like him, can
exert such influence over clear logic. .When my trails get
closed, Vandeman and his merry cohorts are the first that
.come to mind. They come around bearing false science and
hysteria that the .world is crumbling, and the obvious
solution is a new gate. Yeah, right. . .The issue here is
not which vehicle struck which, the issue here is that
.Vandeman and his idiot friends think the solution to the
entire world is .another gate. THEY WANT YOU TO SIT AT HOME
IN YOUR LIVING ROOM! Doesn't that .concern you? It bothers
me greatly.

BS. You can WALK. Yes, I know: you are too LAZY.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

On Wed, 5 May 2004 13:04:27 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote:

. ."Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .> .>
"Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote in message .>
"]news:[email hidden]... .> > Fine. When
they come and erect a gate across your favorite trail,
.remember .> > that you ignored the warning signs. .> > .> >
Personally, I am going to be [censored] that an idiot like
Vandeman, and .there .> > are many idiots just like him, can
exert such influence over clear .logic. .> > When my trails
get closed, Vandeman and his merry cohorts are the first .>
that .> > come to mind. They come around bearing false
science and hysteria that .the .> > world is crumbling, and
the obvious solution is a new gate. Yeah, right. .> > .> >
The issue here is not which vehicle struck which, the issue
here is that .> > Vandeman and his idiot friends think the
solution to the entire world is .> > another gate. THEY WANT
YOU TO SIT AT HOME IN YOUR LIVING ROOM! Doesn't .> that .> >
concern you? It bothers me greatly. .> .> But debating the
demented one here on Usenet does little if anything. .> (and
No, Mikey, not because you are *right*. Because you aren't)
.> .> At most, a few thousand people will ever read this.
And very few of them .are .> Mikey supporters. .> .> Endless
scribling in here *is* "sitting at home in your living
room". .Unless .> you also get out to any trail closure
hearings, do some trail maint, toss .a .> few $$ to IMBA (or
whoever). .> . .I do all of those things, do you? Well, I do
not give my money to the IMBA, .I give it to California
Association of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs. Different group, .same
goal - keep open access to public lands. . . .> Trail
closures do not happen in here. They happen in public
meetings. Get .> out into the public. .> .We should all get
out to the meetings if for no other reason that Mike gets
.out to them. If just the few thousand that you suggest will
at most see this .post got out to the meetings to rail
against the likes of Mike, we would be .in a better position
to block the erection of the next gate across the .trail.

Your erection is already blocked.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Your erection is already blocked.

Your ignorance is astounding, and your humor is
infantile. Idiot.

On Fri, 7 May 2004 09:00:38 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.> Your erection is already blocked. .> . .Your ignorance is
astounding, and your humor is infantile. Idiot.

Hit your only nerve, huh?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Mike Vandeman said:

On Wed, 5 May 2004 13:04:27 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

{SNIPPAGE -- will be poignant in a sec}

Quoted message said:

we would be .in a better position to block the erection of
the next gate across the .trail.

Your erection is already blocked.

But...but...YOU'RE the one who's had a vasectomy!

Bill "microsurgery, no doubt" S.

On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:16:59 GMT, " S o r n i" <[email hidden]> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 5 May 2004 13:04:27 -0700,
"Jeff Strickland" .> <[email hidden]> wrote: . .{SNIPPAGE
-- will be poignant in a sec} . .> we would be .in a better
position to block the .> erection of the next gate across
the .trail. .> .> Your erection is already blocked. .
.But...but...YOU'RE the one who's had a vasectomy!

Thanks for demonstrating your total ignorance of the
subject.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Mike Vandeman said:

On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:16:59 GMT, " S o r n i" <sorni@bite-
me.san.rr.com> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 5 May 2004 13:04:27 -
0700, "Jeff Strickland" .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .
.{SNIPPAGE -- will be poignant in a sec} . .> we would be
.in a better position to block the .> erection of the next
gate across the .trail. .> .> Your erection is already
blocked. . .But...but...YOU'RE the one who's had a
vasectomy!

Thanks for demonstrating your total ignorance of the
subject.

You're right, Mike. I forgot you can't GET an erec....
(can't bring myself to say it).

Bill "even Terri can't help you there" S.

S o r n i said:

Mike Vandeman said:

On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:16:59 GMT, " S o r n i" <sorni@bite-
me.san.rr.com> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 5 May 2004 13:04:27 -
0700, "Jeff Strickland" .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .
.{SNIPPAGE -- will be poignant in a sec} . .> we would be
.in a better position to block the .> erection of the
next gate across the .trail. .> .> Your erection is
already blocked. . .But...but...YOU'RE the one who's had
a vasectomy!

Thanks for demonstrating your total ignorance of the
subject.

You're right, Mike. I forgot you can't GET an erec....
(can't bring myself to say it).

Bill "even Terri can't help you there" S.

......insn't that really below the belt (insert
rimshot heres)

Tom (soon to go under the knife again, but not for the
shoulder!)

tcmedara said:

S o r n i said:

Mike Vandeman said:

On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:16:59 GMT, " S o r n i" <sorni@bite-
me.san.rr.com> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 5 May 2004 13:04:27 -
0700, "Jeff Strickland" .> <[email hidden]> wrote: .
.{SNIPPAGE -- will be poignant in a sec} . .> we would be
.in a better position to block the .> erection of the
next gate across the .trail. .> .> Your erection is
already blocked. . .But...but...YOU'RE the one who's had
a vasectomy!

Thanks for demonstrating your total ignorance of the
subject.

You're right, Mike. I forgot you can't GET an erec....
(can't bring myself to say it).

Bill "even Terri can't help you there" S.

......insn't that really below the belt (insert
rimshot heres)

Tom (soon to go under the knife again, but not for the
shoulder!)

1 lb bag of frozen peas, and narcs :-)

Shawn