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UK and Europe
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6 March 2006
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16 March 2006
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Russell
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  1. On 06/03/2006 20:45, Russell said,

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone got any suggestions for a mirror on a road bike?

    I don't want anything too big but must be big enough to see what's going on
    behind me.

    The Blackburn one that fits over the brake hood is the only one to
    consider :-) It still allows you to ride on the hoods, and gives a good
    clear view behind. I suppose not "too big" is a bit subjective - I
    don't think this one is too big, but there are smaller ones around.

    http://www.evanscycles.com/product.jsp?style=20055 shows the one I mean,
    although the stock photo they used seems to have the mirror at an odd
    angle to the fixing! It is secured by a velcro strap, which I just
    don't notice when riding.

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  2. Mike Sales said:

    "Nigel Cliffe" > wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Conversely, I have an old type Mirrcycle, and its superb. I now
    have the problem of a new bike which has buried cables, so the
    Mirrcycle isn't an option, and I'll be looking for a decent
    alternative.

    I fitted a Mirrcycle to STI drop levers by drilling and tapping the
    lever ( where the cable exits on a non aero lever ) and fitting a bolt
    through the post of the mirror, down into the lever, and then backed
    up with a ( thin ) locknut. Has worked fine for some years.

    Interesting solution, thanks for posting it. Not quite sure I can bring
    myself to drill holes in the new bike's (expensive) Campag hoods, but at
    least I know its an option.

    I realise that Shimano STI hoods have different gubbins inside compared to
    Campag Ergo, so what works with one may not with the other.

    - Nigel

    --
    Nigel Cliffe,
    Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

  3. Paul Boyd said:

    On 06/03/2006 20:45, Russell said,

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone got any suggestions for a mirror on a road bike?
    I don't want anything too big but must be big enough to see
    what's going on
    behind me.

    The Blackburn one that fits over the brake hood is the only one to
    consider :-) It still allows you to ride on the hoods, and gives a
    good clear view behind. I suppose not "too big" is a bit
    subjective - I don't think this one is too big, but there are
    smaller ones around.

    I'm still pining for a hood-mounted Mirrycle, and tried the
    Blackburn -- too much vibration to be useful about 30% of the time,
    which made it a dead loss in my estimation. The bar-end Mirrycle on
    drops gets in the way and is in a bad position (view angle moves
    too much as you change hand position, while the hood-mounted ones
    are pretty good).

    Brendan
    --
    Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
    Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
    [email hidden] http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

  4. Alan Braggins said:
    In article said:
    Russell said:

    Anyone got any suggestions for a mirror on a road bike?

    After trying some (including old type of Mirrcycle*: probably the best
    cycle mirror), and trying hard to make them work for me, I suggest don't
    bother unless you're not able to look behind.

    Even if one didn't get in the way of your hands or was easy to fold out of
    the way and back for parking and didn't need fiddly readjustment, a
    not-too-big handlebar mirror can't give a really good view, especially if
    using more than one riding position, and what view you get can give a
    false sense of security.

    It's no substitute for looking around, but I find it useful for keeping
    some idea of what's going on around me. The commute I used to do involved
    changing lanes approaching a roundabout, with a trailer cycle.
    The mirror meant I could keep an eye on traffic behind me as I crossed
    the bridge to see when there might be a suitable gap, followed by looking
    behind to confirm, and then signalling if I was going to move.

    I use a Take a look eye glass mounted mirror. I find no problems with
    adjustment and by moving my head I get an excellent field of view. I
    find that it is a great substitue for looking behind and I only really
    use head turning as a means of giving a visual signal to following
    traffic that I am looking and have seen them (when I want to give such
    a signal). It is also useful for spotting gaps and following traffic
    from a distance as you state

    best wishes
    james

  5. "Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Anyone got any suggestions for a mirror on a road bike?

    I don't want anything too big but must be big enough to see what's going


    on

    Quoted message said:

    behind me.

    Are those ones that fit on the end of your drops any good?

    Or are helmet mirrors any good? Can they be taken off easily?


    whatever you do, make them discrete

    IMHO there are several things that encourage following lemming drivers to
    recklessly overtake :-

    1. The merest hint of rain - especially if the roads are particularly
    greasy.

    2. The successful passing of another vehicle (the larger the better)

    3. The cyclist looking behind them.

    4. Visible mirrors.

  6. gentlegreen said:

    whatever you do, make them discrete

    IMHO there are several things that encourage following lemming
    drivers to recklessly overtake :-

    /snip

    Quoted message said:

    3. The cyclist looking behind them.

    Not sure about this one. Motorists get the idea that I might be moving
    right when I look behind so they hang back more than usual.

    ~PB

  7. gentlegreen said:


    3. The cyclist looking behind them.

    I find in the vast majority of cases looking behind will make cars slow
    and let me out even before I signal. Sometimes even when they are so
    close I was looking for the gap behind them but they then slow and let
    me out.

    That is one reason I would not want a mirror.

    --chris

  8. Chris Gerhard <[email hidden]> wrote:
    | gentlegreen wrote:
    | >
    | > 3. The cyclist looking behind them.
    |
    | I find in the vast majority of cases looking behind will make cars slow
    | and let me out even before I signal. Sometimes even when they are so
    | close I was looking for the gap behind them but they then slow and let
    | me out.

    Except that every now and then you will find that they sit on your shoulder
    irritatingly ignoring your looks over the shoulder, and the arm stuck out
    straight at shoulder height... and concentrating on pushing the keys of the
    phone they're staring at in the hand that isn't holding the wheel. But.

  9. Geraint Jones said:

    Chris Gerhard <[email hidden]> wrote:
    | gentlegreen wrote:
    | >
    | > 3. The cyclist looking behind them.
    |
    | I find in the vast majority of cases looking behind will make cars slow
    | and let me out even before I signal. Sometimes even when they are so
    | close I was looking for the gap behind them but they then slow and let
    | me out.

    Except that every now and then you will find that they sit on your shoulder
    irritatingly ignoring your looks over the shoulder, and the arm stuck out
    straight at shoulder height... and concentrating on pushing the keys of the
    phone they're staring at in the hand that isn't holding the wheel. But.

    yes, there are bad drivers but the majority I encounter on my way home
    where I have to do this maneuver are considerate to me. Having typed
    this I will no doubt have trouble on the way home. At least if I do it
    is right outside a hospital with an A & E.

    --chris

  10. Chris Gerhard said:
    gentlegreen said:


    3. The cyclist looking behind them.

    I find in the vast majority of cases looking behind will make cars slow
    and let me out even before I signal. Sometimes even when they are so
    close I was looking for the gap behind them but they then slow and let
    me out.

    That is one reason I would not want a mirror.

    but a mirror doesn't preclude looking back for this purpose. What it
    does allow is for you to decide whether or not it will be advantageous
    for you to give this signal in a particular situation and act
    accordingly.

    That is one reason why I like my mirror in heavy traffic

    best wishes
    james

  11. triddletree said:
    Brian G said:
    Pete Biggs said:

    Russell wrote:

    > Anyone got any suggestions for a mirror on a road bike?

    A helmet mirror should give a better view but I don't see how they're
    practical either.

    One big advantage of a helmet mounted mirror is that relatively small
    movements of the head can aim the mirror as required and widen the field
    of view considerably, whereas with a bar mounted mirror one has to
    have the setup precisely correct or engage in tricky contortions to
    adjust the view.

    Quoted message said:

    This is the main reason I don't advise mirrors on bikes. The time taken
    in getting the body and mirror correctly aligned, overcoming any
    vibration, and then for the eyes to refocus is best, IMO, spent looking
    behind.
    I'm pleased to see John Franklin also agrees turning the head is both
    faster and gives better information than a mirror.

    Most of these comments about how awkward mirros are sound like
    comments from people who never bothered to spend the time becoming
    skilful in their use. Rather like someone who's never ridden a bike,
    and after half an hour falling off their first bike in the park,
    announces that there is absolutely no way such an inherently wobbly
    contraption could ever be remotely close to safe in traffic.

    It takes me maybe ten minutes of experiments to find the best way of
    setting up a new kind of mirror. After that if it gets knocked out of
    place I can reset it in seconds, usually while cycling. I never have
    to overcome vibration because if I do accidentally buy one of the
    stupid vibrating kind, I take it back to the shop and swap it. Once
    you've learned how to use it you never have to refocus, because you
    stop being so silly as to focus on the mirror in the first place. The
    same focus as is used for looking ahead is used for looking
    behind. And the awkward contortions of head and body rquired to shift
    view are only awkward until making the right movement becomes so
    automatic you don't even know you're doing it.

    Of course looking round gives you a better view. But there's no way
    you can track the behaviour of vehicles approaching from behind by
    looking behind, especially in urban traffic where you also need to
    keep a close eye on the stuff in front.

    Twice in my life I've dived off the road when I realised the car
    behind was going to drive me off the road, once because it was simply
    either careless or malicious, and once because other traffic which I
    could see and it couldn't yet was going to force it into that
    situation. There's no way I could have seen either of those things
    coming unless I had been lucky enough to turn round and look at exactly
    the right last moment, and then I would have had a slower reaction
    because I would have had my head round backwards. It was easily done
    with a mirror. I'm not even sure if it would have possible without
    one.

    When I ride in the city without a mirror I feel more vulnerable, ride
    a bit more slowly, and sometimes find myself pulling up behind a
    parked car instead of swinging out because in thick fast moving
    traffic I simply hadn't had the time to be able to check whether I
    could pull out. That's because although I'm riding a bit slower, I'm
    still not riding slow enough to be able to take all the observations I
    need, without a mirror, for all the maneouvres I might need to take.

    It's true my mirror, like most if not all of them, has that critical
    blind spot where a very close overtaking something can hide, but that
    can be covered by the very quick shoulder checking glance which
    motorcyclists call the lifesaver, which is very much quicker than the
    full looking behind that is needed if you don't have a mirror.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  12. Chris Gerhard said:
    gentlegreen said:


    3. The cyclist looking behind them.

    Quoted message said:

    I find in the vast majority of cases looking behind will make cars slow
    and let me out even before I signal. Sometimes even when they are so
    close I was looking for the gap behind them but they then slow and let
    me out.

    Quoted message said:

    That is one reason I would not want a mirror.

    I've also heard people say they don't use the front brake ever because
    it's more likely to cause you to fall off.

    If you had a mirror you can either make a quick signal, or swing the
    bike briefly out a bit, or twitch the head as though looking back
    while still lokking forwards, all of which will communicate as
    effectively to the car driver, without the loss of forward vision and
    reaction time involved in doing an actual look behind.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

  13. "Chris Gerhard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    gentlegreen said:


    3. The cyclist looking behind them.

    I find in the vast majority of cases looking behind will make cars slow
    and let me out even before I signal. Sometimes even when they are so close
    I was looking for the gap behind them but they then slow and let me out.

    That is one reason I would not want a mirror.

    It would be good to be able to observe following drivers without their being
    aware of it ... I was quite interested in the Reevu helmet, but I guess
    I'll have to wait 'till I can fit a cheap but effective CCTV camera and some
    sort of head-up display ... I'd probably also have a front-mounted one and
    a dual channel digital video recorder :-)

    I've already got a 12 volt supply for it all :-)

    http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/bikelights.JPG

  14. On 07/03/2006 23:02, Brendan Halpin said,

    Quoted message said:

    I'm still pining for a hood-mounted Mirrycle, and tried the
    Blackburn -- too much vibration to be useful about 30% of the time,
    which made it a dead loss in my estimation. T

    Odd - I don't get any vibration whatsoever, except on those transverse
    strips the council use randomly on cycle paths. Did you mount the
    Blackburn rigidly to the hood with the velcro strap, like this?
    http://paul-boyd.co.uk/ebaypics/bb_mirror.jpg Current shop photos don't
    seem to mention or show this strap, so maybe it isn't supplied any more.
    I'm sure it was when it was sold under the previous brand, whose name
    I've forgotten.

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  15. Paul Boyd said:

    On 07/03/2006 23:02, Brendan Halpin said,

    Quoted message said:

    I'm still pining for a hood-mounted Mirrycle, and tried the
    Blackburn -- too much vibration to be useful about 30% of the time,
    which made it a dead loss in my estimation. T

    Odd - I don't get any vibration whatsoever, except on those
    transverse strips the council use randomly on cycle paths. Did you
    mount the Blackburn rigidly to the hood with the velcro strap, like
    this? http://paul-boyd.co.uk/ebaypics/bb_mirror.jpg

    Exactly like that. Maybe Irish roads are rougher more often, but
    you couldn't depend on getting a useful view through it.

    Brendan
    --
    Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
    Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
    [email hidden] http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

  16. On 08/03/2006 19:21, Brendan Halpin said,

    Quoted message said:

    Exactly like that. Maybe Irish roads are rougher more often, but
    you couldn't depend on getting a useful view through it.

    Ah - Irish roads! It was on Irish roads at the age of 15 that I got
    into cycling. Our one and only family holiday was in Tralee, 25 years
    ago, and we hired bikes not having cycled before. There was no looking
    back. We didn't even have to pay a deposit because we looked honest!!!!

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  17. Chris Malcolm said:

    Most of these comments about how awkward mirros are sound like
    comments from people who never bothered to spend the time becoming
    skilful in their use. Rather like someone who's never ridden a bike,
    and after half an hour falling off their first bike in the park,
    announces that there is absolutely no way such an inherently wobbly
    contraption could ever be remotely close to safe in traffic.

    It takes me maybe ten minutes of experiments to find the best way of
    setting up a new kind of mirror. After that if it gets knocked out of
    place I can reset it in seconds, usually while cycling.

    I used a mirror for long enough to become as skilful as I ever could with
    one. I determinedly persevered because I so much liked the idea. I just
    couldn't make the idea work in practice. I could never get a view I was
    really satisfied with and got fed up with tweaking the angle to try and
    improve it. Focussing wasn't a problem but the small size of the image
    also sapped more concentration than I found enjoyable. The final straw
    was a cracked glass which prompted me to forget the whole idea.

    Quoted message said:

    I never have
    to overcome vibration because if I do accidentally buy one of the
    stupid vibrating kind, I take it back to the shop and swap it. Once
    you've learned how to use it you never have to refocus, because you
    stop being so silly as to focus on the mirror in the first place. The
    same focus as is used for looking ahead is used for looking
    behind. And the awkward contortions of head and body rquired to shift
    view are only awkward until making the right movement becomes so
    automatic you don't even know you're doing it.

    Of course looking round gives you a better view. But there's no way
    you can track the behaviour of vehicles approaching from behind by
    looking behind, especially in urban traffic where you also need to
    keep a close eye on the stuff in front.

    Personally, I manage OK on the combination of defensive/assertive
    cycling*, waiting/looking round, prediction, and hearing.

    You can track the behaviour by /repeatedly/ looking behind. I can't
    pretend that's completely convenient but it can be safe. Even on dense
    urban roads, you should be able to safely take your eye on the stuff in
    front for a moment when cycling with ample stopping distance.

    * Less need to know what's behind (and on the pavement) when you're in the
    middle of the lane, for instance (not that I'm in the middle of the lane
    all the time).

    Quoted message said:

    Twice in my life I've dived off the road when I realised the car
    behind was going to drive me off the road, once because it was simply
    either careless or malicious, and once because other traffic which I
    could see and it couldn't yet was going to force it into that
    situation. There's no way I could have seen either of those things
    coming unless I had been lucky enough to turn round and look at
    exactly the right last moment, and then I would have had a slower
    reaction
    because I would have had my head round backwards. It was easily done
    with a mirror. I'm not even sure if it would have possible without
    one.

    Being hit from behind is rare enough for a mirror not to be a high
    priority, to say the least.

    ~PB

  18. In article <[email hidden]>, gentlegreen

    () said:

    It would be good to be able to observe following drivers without their being
    aware of it ...

    I should think that most glasses- or Martlehat-mounted mirrors are small
    enough to be invisible to a following driver.

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Do not top-post like a Cretinous Foul-Yob fit only for Stoning.

  19. Dave Larrington said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, gentlegreen

    () said:

    It would be good to be able to observe following drivers without their being
    aware of it ...

    I should think that most glasses- or Martlehat-mounted mirrors are small
    enough to be invisible to a following driver.

    Anything in a fluo yellow cycle jacket appears to be invisible to a
    following driver.

    ...d

  20. John Mallard said:
    Russell said:

    Anyone got any suggestions for a mirror on a road bike?

    I don't want anything too big but must be big enough to see what's
    going on behind me.

    Are those ones that fit on the end of your drops any good?

    Or are helmet mirrors any good? Can they be taken off easily?

    I have to thank Danny for recomending the 3rd eye Glasses Mount. I suppose
    it helps if, like me you are a spectacle wearer, but I suppose shades would
    work just as well. It just takes a few days to stop spending more time
    looking behind and paying attention to what's going on in front of you
    again. It's a novalty thing that soon wears off. you soon start looking
    only when you need to (which is actualy surprisingly infreaquantly.
    http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/mirrors.shtml

    You may find yourself walking down the street or in shop, craning your
    neck to get a good look at something behind you before you realise you
    aren't wearing your mirror. 🙂
    John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

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