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manly men do LC

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29 September 2004
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  1. I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.

    I'm appending the article instead of the link because the Post requires a
    subscription.

    Suddenly, It's a Guy Thing

    By Judith Weinraub

    In the battle of the sexes, women rule when it comes to dieting.

    We've done it all our lives. We know how to count calories, weigh foods,
    measure portion sizes. We've learned to choose the least fattening foods
    on a menu. We know that restraint is inevitable. And we're very motivated.
    At least at first.

    To men, dieting seems "girlie," something they don't talk about. They
    don't want to be seen eating classic diet food -- salads with dressing on
    the side, vegetables without butter, fillets of fish and skinless chicken.

    Then along came the Atkins diet and other low-carbohydrate, high-protein
    eating plans, and things changed -- at least, that's the contention of New
    York University's Amy Bentley, an associate professor in nutrition, food
    studies and public health at its school of education.

    The way she sees it, the current mania for low-carb diets has made
    dieting politically correct for men. Suddenly a man can still be manly
    even if he's on a diet: He can go out in public and carve up a hunk of red
    meat for dinner. "It's made dieting more acceptable for men to think
    about," she says. "It's important for men to prove that they are men in
    the world we live in. To do anything female in some classes makes you
    suspect -- it devalues your power."

    Diets such as Atkins and South Beach severely restrict carbohydrates,
    promote eating protein and recommend some fats. Anyone on such a diet is
    consuming lots of meat -- not the restrained amounts allowed on low-fat
    diets. And "in many cultures," says Bentley, "meat is masculine."

    Eat the low-carb way, she argues, and not only are you allowed to eat all
    that masculine meat. You're supposed to. "On low-carb diets," she says,
    "Meat is not only not taboo. It's a good food."

    That's the complete opposite of the presumption that foods high in fat
    and calories aren't "diet foods" -- a point of view that women in America
    have long been socialized to accept. Men, on the other hand, have been
    less comfortable with the rabbit-food approach -- especially in public.
    Eating a diet of red meat, bacon, eggs, nuts, cheese and butter is
    acceptable, says Bentley. "Low-carb dieting gives people license to eat
    foods that were tagged as forbidden in the low-fat world."

    Bentley and the other people interviewed for this story are careful to
    point out they are not saying all men react one way to dieting, and all
    women another. But look at the powerful role models for popular diets. The
    gurus of low-carb eating tend to be men, Bentley points out: the late
    Robert Atkins; South Beach's creator (another doctor), Arthur Agatson; the
    three doctors and one CEO of a Fortune 500 company who created Sugar
    Busters. These are strong, successful male models, who promote eating
    plans that seem to have quick results, not the female role models
    identified with plans such as Weight Watchers, the L.A. Weight Loss Diet
    and Jenny Craig, programs that require dieters to weigh food, count
    calories or tally points (a scoring system for foods) and to accept
    continuous, moderate changes in weight loss as a good thing. More than
    half the testimonials on the Atkins Web site come from men, too, she
    notes.

    Bentley's article in the August issue of Gastronomica: The Journal of
    Food and Culture, however, isn't based on long- or even short-term
    studies. And the research she reports in her essay isn't footnoted. So,
    academic arguments aside, do men and women actually approach dieting
    differently?

    Yes, they do, says John La Puma, a Santa Barbara-based internist and
    professionally trained chef with a national practice that focuses on
    medical nutrition and healthy weight.

    "In my practice, men respond well when you tell them what to do and when
    to do it, what to eat and what not to eat, when to eat and when not to,"
    says LaPuma, whose patients are about evenly divided between the sexes.
    "Both men and women need specific goals for achievement. But goals are
    larger, more like visions or missions. Men often need objectives -- little
    guideposts or milestones along the way. And we need strategies and tactics
    to get there. It's the language of business school."

    Initially LaPuma, who is also the co-author of "The RealAge Diet: Make
    Yourself Younger With What You Eat" (HarperCollins, 2002) and "Cooking the
    RealAge Way: Turn Back Your Biological Clock With More Than 80 Delicious
    and Easy Recipes" (HarperCollins, 2003) took a more traditional approach.
    "When I was investigating weight-loss programs 10 years ago, I found that
    98 out of 100 were targeted for women," he says. "They were often
    process-oriented -- that is, they tried to make sense of the problem and
    reason through it the way women often do with relationships, to turn the
    problems over to fully understand them, and then to come out with a
    solution better than what they went in with. It's a thoughtful examination
    of the reasons for eating other than hunger, with small changes making a
    big difference. I started that way. . . . Three years ago, it became clear
    to me that it worked for some people but not for others, and the people it
    worked for tended to be women."

    What he observed about the men he treated was that generally they were
    goal-oriented, numbers-oriented and specific about wanting to be told
    exactly what to do. In general, he found that approach works for his male
    patients and some women -- with a caution. "The flip side is that it can
    seem parental," he says. "But it's not. It's more like a business partner
    with experience in a specific area. . . . I give them specific goals --
    weight, blood pressure, cholesterol -- and I give them a specific time
    period to do it. . . . It's prescriptive, clear, based in science, and it
    gives us something to shoot for."

    La Puma isn't the only one to see a difference in the way men and women
    diet. At Weight Watchers (where the amount and kinds of food allowed have
    been based on a point system that is reliant on calories as well as grams
    of dietary fiber and fat), low-carb diets are seen as serious competition,
    especially for male clients. Men have never been a large part of the
    Weight Watchers constituency. Trying to make sense of that, the company
    did extensive research about "extreme dieting" -- that is low-carb and
    no-carb dieting -- in the United States. "We wanted to understand men, and
    their needs, preferences and weight issues," says Karen Miller-Kovach, the
    company's chief scientific officer.

    Previously, their studies had found that men weren't even comfortable
    talking about dieting. Then about a year and a half ago, they began to see
    a difference in their focus groups. "I was consistently hearing men
    admitting to dieting and weight loss," says Miller-Kovach. "You generally
    didn't see that. With the no- and low-carb diets, suddenly it was okay for
    a man to be on a diet and to credit a weight-loss method as the way the
    weight was lost. Now for the first time it was a macho thing to do."

    Not only were men talking about weight loss; women were often making
    dieting decisions based on the recommendations of men -- their husbands, a
    co-worker at the office. And the recommendations were for low-carb
    dieting.

    At times, the research showed, a woman's decision to go on a low-carb
    diet was motivated by a desire to get support from, or give support to,
    her husband. "We heard from women that 'this low-carb approach is not my
    preferred way of dieting, but my husband wanted to do it this way. I'm not
    keen on doing it that way. But if I can get him to do it with me, I'll do
    it.' "

    At other times, women reported they had tried the low-carb approach
    because they had seen men succeed. A typical female reaction, says
    Miller-Kovach, was to say, "I know about weight loss and if this guy can
    lose weight, and he doesn't know about this stuff, I can really do it."

    Weight Watchers was so impressed by the change in men's (and some
    women's) attitudes, that the discovery played a major role in the
    company's decision to introduce an alternative program to its popular Flex
    Plan in which foods are assigned a point value, and dieters are given a
    point goal for each day and week. The recently launched program, the Core
    Plan, doesn't rely on the traditional Weight Watchers point system.
    Instead, it offers dieters a list of "allowed" foods (designed to provide
    both good nutrition and satisfaction) that they can eat and still lose
    weight.

    In other words, eat only these foods and you'll be fine. It's an approach
    that's a mainstay of low-carb diets -- and an approach the company feels
    will be attractive to many men.

    At Atkins Nutritionals, the company founded by Robert Atkins, which is
    now an international enterprise that sells food products and provides
    information about the diet, there is resistance to seeing Atkins dieters
    through a gender prism.

    "The appeal of Atkins is not just limited to men," says Stuart Trager, an
    orthopedist and the medical director of Atkins Nutritionals as well as the
    chairman of the Atkins Physical Council. "Obesity and overeating cross
    gender lines. . . . We're seeing a move in general toward results-oriented
    programs that appeal to the new health-conscious and weight-conscious
    [group of dieters]. That includes perhaps more men than it has in the
    past."

    That said, at one of the Atkins-inspired Web sites (which are not
    sponsored by the company but have sprung up as forums where dieters can
    discuss their experiences and concerns), there's a special chat room for
    men where participants discuss their experiences on the diet -- from
    sexual implications and how it affects weight training to recipes.

    Take, for example, Web site chatter from Oregon last month: "I was really
    self-conscious about [dieting]. I told people at work I was on it (if it
    came up) but I always added 'Even if I don't lose any weight . . . I feel
    great.' Then when the pounds started falling off it was the guys who were
    the most supportive telling me how great I looked and how Atkins was
    really working."

    And another from Denver earlier this summer: "I generally don't like
    talking about dieting at all. I remember being right out of high school
    and working at a bank . . . sitting in the lunch room listening to the
    women talking about all the different diets. . . . They had the various
    menus memorized. . . . I'm at a point now where I do occasionally brag
    about it. When I go out to lunch with a customer and they see how I'm
    ordering and immediately pick it up as Atkins (everyone knows Atkins) I
    always end up talking about it. [I] make it a point to tell them I'm
    already 60 lbs down, because NO ONE can argue about success."

    Just how long the low-carb landslide will last is anybody's guess. And
    there aren't any long-term studies to show how successful its dieters are
    in keeping the weight off. For that matter, we don't know for sure that
    men as a group are dieting more than they used to, although it certainly
    looks that way.

    If men are dieting in increasing numbers, what is the reason? Have baby
    boomers reached an age where unless they stay fit, high cholesterol,
    diabetes and coronary heart disease are just around the corner? Is the
    relentless tide of information about obesity in America hitting close to
    home? Has popular culture, with its trendy metrosexuals and women who
    openly discuss men's bodies on TV shows like "Friends" and "Sex and the
    City," made men more aware of their sexual attractiveness?

    It's probably a little of all of the above.

    At Weight Watchers, for example, research has indicated that men go on
    diets primarily for the same reasons that women do: to feel and look
    better, as opposed to a concern about their health.

    In contrast, LaPuma finds that his patients (who tend to be CEOs, very
    successful people, yet they haven't been able to solve their weight
    problems) care mightily about potential health hazards of being
    overweight. "They don't want the fact they're obese or hypertense or have
    high cholesterol to steal from them what they've earned in life," he says.

    Whatever the reason for dieting, the weight problem isn't going to go
    away -- for women or for men. "There's too much food out there, too many
    choices. It's too tempting," says NYU's Bentley. "We're in desperate
    times."

  2. Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
    || I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.

    There's a strong ring of truth in parts of that article...though it is too
    simplistic for me now....it may apply to a lot of men just starting out.

    For example, I find eating a plate of veggies to be manly.....because
    getting them down (initially, anyway) took a lot of willpower. Another
    example, fasting for 24 to 36 hours -- that's a manly thing to do, imo!

    I still don't like how the article paints LCers are eating mostly meat,
    eggs, bacon, and cheese, though. I think not eating just that stuff can be
    more manly that just eating that stuff.

    I have to admit I never enjoyed talking about dieting, until I came to the
    newsgroup and actually started seriously trying to lose weight.

  3. Quoted message said:

    "Roger Zoul" [email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
    || I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.

    There's a strong ring of truth in parts of that article...though it is too
    simplistic for me now....it may apply to a lot of men just starting out.

    My SO was in 3 workplace-based Weight Watchers groups while he was losing. The
    first was 29 women and him, the next was 31 women and three other guys and him,
    and the last was 32 women and him. The funny thing was, after he lost the
    weight, some of the other guys in his department began slimming down. And
    they'd come into his office and shut the door and confess -- a word used
    deliberately -- that they, too, were doing WW, they were inspired by him, and
    they knew they needed to lose weight. BUT they weren't about to go to meetings
    at the workplace, they were going to meetings where fewer people knew them.
    And yet I've never known a low-carbing guy to be all secretive about it like
    that. (I don't get it, and I don't have a theory, I'm just reporting what
    happened.)

    Quoted message said:

    I still don't like how the article paints LCers are eating mostly meat,
    eggs, bacon, and cheese, though. I think not eating just that stuff can be
    more manly that just eating that stuff.

    If you ever hear of me falling over from a heart attack on a Wednesday, you may
    then suspect that the Post food section has someone talking about low-carb who
    actually knows something about it. I don't think they've ever had anyone
    knowledgeable make a single comment on it. Talk about people who need to read
    the damned book!

    Quoted message said:

    I have to admit I never enjoyed talking about dieting, until I came to the
    newsgroup and actually started seriously trying to lose weight.

    Here's a question: do the men here ever feel peer or media pressure to lose
    weight? Because women get a lot of peer and media pressure, not that it's kept
    the nation's obesity rates low.

    Daria
    166/under 145/under 145
    sugar-free since 2/1/04
    low-carb since 2/17/04

  4. DG511 wrote:
    ||| "Roger Zoul" [email hidden]
    ||
    || writes:
    ||
    ||| Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
    ||||| I got a kick out of this Washington Post article.
    |||
    ||| There's a strong ring of truth in parts of that article...though it
    ||| is too simplistic for me now....it may apply to a lot of men just
    ||| starting out.
    ||
    || My SO was in 3 workplace-based Weight Watchers groups while he was
    || losing. The first was 29 women and him, the next was 31 women and
    || three other guys and him, and the last was 32 women and him. The
    || funny thing was, after he lost the weight, some of the other guys in
    || his department began slimming down. And they'd come into his office
    || and shut the door and confess -- a word used deliberately -- that
    || they, too, were doing WW, they were inspired by him, and they knew
    || they needed to lose weight. BUT they weren't about to go to
    || meetings at the workplace, they were going to meetings where fewer
    || people knew them. And yet I've never known a low-carbing guy to be
    || all secretive about it like that. (I don't get it, and I don't have
    || a theory, I'm just reporting what happened.)
    ||
    ||| I still don't like how the article paints LCers are eating mostly
    ||| meat,
    ||| eggs, bacon, and cheese, though. I think not eating just that
    ||| stuff can be more manly that just eating that stuff.
    ||
    || If you ever hear of me falling over from a heart attack on a
    || Wednesday, you may then suspect that the Post food section has
    || someone talking about low-carb who actually knows something about
    || it. I don't think they've ever had anyone knowledgeable make a
    || single comment on it. Talk about people who need to read the damned
    || book!
    ||
    ||| I have to admit I never enjoyed talking about dieting, until I came
    ||| to the newsgroup and actually started seriously trying to lose
    ||| weight.
    ||
    || Here's a question: do the men here ever feel peer or media pressure
    || to lose weight? Because women get a lot of peer and media pressure,
    || not that it's kept the nation's obesity rates low.

    Heck yes. When you weigh 367 lbs and get on an airplane, you tend to spill
    over. Also, on the dating scene, at least for me, being that fat puts you
    at a disadvantage. Also, the general, usually unspoken, opinion of really
    overweight guys is that they are less viral and thus less effective overall.
    Obviously, there are degrees of this phenom and it depends on what crowds
    you hang out with, too.

    The amazing thing to me is how people manage to deal with peer pressure.
    You get thick skin (if you are like most guys or of the right mindset as a
    woman). And it's hard not to since you have to deal with being you
    everyday.

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