lightning

Callistus Valerius said:

Living in Arizona in the summer can be quite hazardous at times with
lightning. Was under the impression that the rubber tires protected you,
but found out that it doesn't. The reason a car protects you, is because
the lightning goes around you because you are sitting in a cage, but not
true on a bike. You're suppose to find shelter, but many times, I'm out
where I'm the tallest thing out there, which really feels spooky when their
is lightning. I guess you could lay down on the ground, but that gets old
if it starts raining, so I guess you just take your chances, and say a
prayer.

If it's already raining, you're more likely to survive a strike. A
dripping wet body allows more of the current to flow round the outside.
It's still going to make you jump off your bike though!

The best advice is to head for a valley or lie in a ditch, well away
from the bike. Lightning likes pointy metal things.

Callistus Valerius said:

Living in Arizona in the summer can be quite hazardous at times with
lightning. Was under the impression that the rubber tires protected you,
but found out that it doesn't. The reason a car protects you, is because
the lightning goes around you because you are sitting in a cage, but not
true on a bike. You're suppose to find shelter, but many times, I'm out
where I'm the tallest thing out there, which really feels spooky when their
is lightning. I guess you could lay down on the ground, but that gets old
if it starts raining, so I guess you just take your chances, and say a
prayer.

Cars are safe because of the skin effect (a car isn't actually a Faraday
cage; these only protect you from static electricity, not anything with
a current). Weirdly, you can even touch the inside of the car body
during a strike and not feel anything.

Convertible cars are not safe in a thunderstorm.

Ron Hardin said:

I've always wondered whether it's best to ride on the side of the road
with the power lines, or the other side.

If the inductance is low enough, the power lines are protectors. If not,
it may be they just add an antenna to you.

Nobody seems to know which it is. All you get is advice from womanish
men to stay indoors when there's thunderstorms. (If they weren't
womanish, they'd know it's an interesting physics problem.)

The Strike Alert lightning detector is amusing to have. It lets you know
how much lightning is missing you by, as well as the presence of passing
electric fences and arcing power poles. (At home, prop it in a window and
listen to the lightning in the area.) I don't know that it's of any actual
use, but just a guy-curiosity thing.

--
Ron Hardin
[email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070711/tc_nm/lightning_headphones_dc_2;_ylt=AraiZs8A477.WvmubDIJFbgE1vAI

Burned jogger shows lightning, headphones don't mix

Doctors at Vancouver General Hospital in Canada said a 37-year-old
jogger wearing an iPod was burned on his chest, neck and face after
the man and a nearby tree were struck by lightning in 2005. The burns
traced the path of the earphones, they said.

The patient's eardrums were ruptured and the tiny bones in his middle
ears were dislocated, the doctors wrote in a letter to the New England
Journal of Medicine.

Ron Hardin said:

At 6 miles you can hear the thunder, I guess, so you could count lightning/thunder
seconds and divide by 5. Or beep/thunder seconds, for that matter. The beep happens
when the lightning does.

I don't know how it works, but it seems tolerably accurate. You'd like it to notice
the phases of the normal modes extending up to the ionosphere, but I doubt it's that.
Probably some broadband thing and signal strength.

RF noise pulse, and a distance guess based on
attenuation, most likely
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_detector
The RF noise is why it may be thrown off by a very
close gas engine.

The chances of being hit by lightning even if you
do something stupid like cycle through an electrical
storm are relatively small. However, the penalty
is severe, and you do increase the risk greatly by
doing stupid things.

In Arizona, summer thunderstorms are relatively
predictable, in the sense that they generally happen
in the afternoon and sometimes evening. So you can
avoid doing stupid things by taking simple precautions
like riding in the morning if you're going to be in
areas without shelter. Climbers and hikers are well
aware of this and the OP could be if he actually
thought about it.

Ben

Zog The Undeniable said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Living in Arizona in the summer can be quite hazardous at times with
lightning. Was under the impression that the rubber tires protected you,
but found out that it doesn't. The reason a car protects you, is because
the lightning goes around you because you are sitting in a cage, but not
true on a bike. You're suppose to find shelter, but many times, I'm out
where I'm the tallest thing out there, which really feels spooky when
their
is lightning. I guess you could lay down on the ground, but that gets
old
if it starts raining, so I guess you just take your chances, and say a
prayer.

Cars are safe because of the skin effect (a car isn't actually a Faraday
cage; these only protect you from static electricity, not anything with
a current). Weirdly, you can even touch the inside of the car body
during a strike and not feel anything.

Convertible cars are not safe in a thunderstorm.

If it is an English car with vintage Lucas electronics you do not want
to be out in the rain, anyhow. Not to mention the sieve like quality of
the top. 🙁

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Callistus Valerius said:

Living in Arizona in the summer can be quite hazardous at times with
lightning. Was under the impression that the rubber tires protected you,
but found out that it doesn't. The reason a car protects you, is because
the lightning goes around you because you are sitting in a cage, but not
true on a bike. You're suppose to find shelter, but many times, I'm out
where I'm the tallest thing out there, which really feels spooky when their
is lightning. I guess you could lay down on the ground, but that gets old
if it starts raining, so I guess you just take your chances, and say a
prayer.

The last lightning storm I rode in, I was the only recumbent rider in
the group - surrounded by lightning rods! 😉

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Quoted message said:

In Arizona, summer thunderstorms are relatively
predictable, in the sense that they generally happen
in the afternoon and sometimes evening. So you can
avoid doing stupid things by taking simple precautions
like riding in the morning if you're going to be in
areas without shelter. Climbers and hikers are well
aware of this and the OP could be if he actually
thought about it.

Ben

========
They call it the monsoons, and you're right. But the other day I was riding
at 4 am and got in into a big electrical storm. Also these storms move fast
so you can get caught anytime, but more likely after 5pm. I use to do
hiking quite a bit, and I think that is a lot more dangerous as the
lightning just pounds you in the mountains. Also the sound is magnified
which doesn't help the situation. But golfers don't seem to be as aware, as
usually they are the ones struck.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

If it is an English car with vintage Lucas electronics you do not want
to be out in the rain, anyhow. Not to mention the sieve like quality of
the top. 🙁

I hope there wasn't such a car nearby when you typed that. If there
was, it won't start in the morning!

- Frank Krygowski

Dorfus Dippintush said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Living in Arizona in the summer can be quite hazardous at times with
lightning. Was under the impression that the rubber tires protected you,
but found out that it doesn't. The reason a car protects you, is because
the lightning goes around you because you are sitting in a cage, but not
true on a bike. You're suppose to find shelter, but many times, I'm out
where I'm the tallest thing out there, which really feels spooky when
their
is lightning. I guess you could lay down on the ground, but that gets
old
if it starts raining, so I guess you just take your chances, and say a
prayer.

Prayer has no known deterrent effect against lightning or anything else
for that matter.

Dorfus

Only if you pray to Zeus he's the one in charge of lighting,christian
gods are just feel good gods.

Bill Sornson said:

Dorfus Dippintush said:

Prayer has no known deterrent effect against lightning or anything
else for that matter.

Anyone with your name would feel that way.

Pray only to Zeus about lighting no use praying to Christian or Muslim
goods they're just feel good gods with fanatic followers.

Ron Hardin said:

I've always wondered whether it's best to ride on the side of the road
with the power lines, or the other side.

If the inductance is low enough, the power lines are protectors. If not,
it may be they just add an antenna to you.

Nobody seems to know which it is. All you get is advice from womanish
men to stay indoors when there's thunderstorms. (If they weren't
womanish, they'd know it's an interesting physics problem.)

The Strike Alert lightning detector is amusing to have. It lets you know
how much lightning is missing you by, as well as the presence of passing
electric fences and arcing power poles. (At home, prop it in a window and
listen to the lightning in the area.) I don't know that it's of any actual
use, but just a guy-curiosity thing.

The safest place is under large power lines. you are protected in a 30
degree zone under the power line. The safest place is in a switchyard.

Dorfus

Bill Sornson said:

Dorfus Dippintush said:

Prayer has no known deterrent effect against lightning or anything
else for that matter.

Anyone with your name would feel that way.

I think you have a silly name but at least I have the decency not to
make fun of it.

Dorfus

Zog The Undeniable said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Living in Arizona in the summer can be quite hazardous at times with
lightning. Was under the impression that the rubber tires protected you,
but found out that it doesn't. The reason a car protects you, is because
the lightning goes around you because you are sitting in a cage, but not
true on a bike. You're suppose to find shelter, but many times, I'm out
where I'm the tallest thing out there, which really feels spooky when
their
is lightning. I guess you could lay down on the ground, but that gets
old
if it starts raining, so I guess you just take your chances, and say a
prayer.

If it's already raining, you're more likely to survive a strike. A
dripping wet body allows more of the current to flow round the outside.
It's still going to make you jump off your bike though!

Pure water is an insulator, if the sweat has washed off you already then
the water will not conduct much electricity at all.

Dorfus

Quoted message said:

The best advice is to head for a valley or lie in a ditch, well away
from the bike. Lightning likes pointy metal things.

Dorfus Dippintush said:

Ron Hardin said:

I've always wondered whether it's best to ride on the side of the road
with the power lines, or the other side.

If the inductance is low enough, the power lines are protectors. If not,
it may be they just add an antenna to you.

Nobody seems to know which it is. All you get is advice from womanish
men to stay indoors when there's thunderstorms. (If they weren't
womanish, they'd know it's an interesting physics problem.)

The Strike Alert lightning detector is amusing to have. It lets you know
how much lightning is missing you by, as well as the presence of passing
electric fences and arcing power poles. (At home, prop it in a window and
listen to the lightning in the area.) I don't know that it's of any actual
use, but just a guy-curiosity thing.

The safest place is under large power lines. you are protected in a 30
degree zone under the power line. The safest place is in a switchyard.

Dorfus

It depends on the inductance. The sudden current surge may produce a nice
high voltage area on the line, leaving it looking for the best way to earth
and finding it's you under the line elsewhere. In which case the line has
served as an antenna for you.

--
Ron Hardin
[email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Quoted message said:

Dear Cal,

Look at the bigger picture:

https://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/tux/jsp/explorer/explorer.jsp;jsessionid=70
302096231136590952293

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

---------
very interesting. If I remember right I think Florida, Colorado, and
Arizona have the most lightning. Did some further reading on the subject,
and it seems motorcyclists are in the same danger as cyclists, and they're
about at all times of the day. Cyclists usually give it up by 12 noon
because of the huge heat here. The only advantage of a motorcycle is that
they can out run the storm, while a cyclist is stuck, until the storm passes
over him, which usually takes about an hour.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Dorfus Dippintush said:

Ron Hardin said:

I've always wondered whether it's best to ride on the side of the road
with the power lines, or the other side.

If the inductance is low enough, the power lines are protectors. If not,
it may be they just add an antenna to you.

Nobody seems to know which it is. All you get is advice from womanish
men to stay indoors when there's thunderstorms. (If they weren't
womanish, they'd know it's an interesting physics problem.)

The Strike Alert lightning detector is amusing to have. It lets you know
how much lightning is missing you by, as well as the presence of passing
electric fences and arcing power poles. (At home, prop it in a window and
listen to the lightning in the area.) I don't know that it's of any actual
use, but just a guy-curiosity thing.

The safest place is under large power lines. you are protected in a 30
degree zone under the power line. The safest place is in a switchyard.

Dorfus

It depends on the inductance. The sudden current surge may produce a nice
high voltage area on the line, leaving it looking for the best way to earth
and finding it's you under the line elsewhere. In which case the line has
served as an antenna for you.

Wouldn't the lightning go to the tower itself before the line or a
cyclist?

RBrickston said:

Wouldn't the lightning go to the tower itself before the line or a
cyclist?

Division of current is not absolute. If you offer ten million volts two
paths - one through a resistance of one ohm, and the other through a
resistance of one million ohms - most of the current, ten million amps,
will flow through the lower resistance. But some of the current - ten
amperes - will flow through the higher resistance path.

Ten amps is way more than enough to stop a human heart and do other
serious damage.

I would be VERY leery of considering a high-voltage tower as protection
against a lightning strike.

(maybe worse: the high currents that would be induced in the sensor wire
would probably fry your bike computer.)

Dorfus Dippintush said:

The safest place is under large power lines. you are protected in a 30
degree zone under the power line. The safest place is in a switchyard.

From http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/decision_tree_people.html:

"*Unsafe* places are near metal or water; under trees; on hills; near
electrical/electronics equipment."

If lightning strikes a tree/tower/whatever near you, the potential of
the earth at the base of the tower rises. The potential decreases as you
get further away from the base. So if you have two feet on the ground,
and one foot is farther from the tower's base than the other foot, you
have a potential difference between your feet. Now electricity tries to
go through you (up one leg, down the other). That's a bad thing.

A reference describing the same thing I just tried to describe:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning8.htm

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)

dvt said:

Dorfus Dippintush said:

The safest place is under large power lines. you are protected in a 30
degree zone under the power line. The safest place is in a switchyard.

From http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/decision_tree_people.html:

"*Unsafe* places are near metal or water; under trees; on hills; near
electrical/electronics equipment."

If lightning strikes a tree/tower/whatever near you, the potential of
the earth at the base of the tower rises. The potential decreases as you
get further away from the base. So if you have two feet on the ground,
and one foot is farther from the tower's base than the other foot, you
have a potential difference between your feet. Now electricity tries to
go through you (up one leg, down the other). That's a bad thing.

A reference describing the same thing I just tried to describe:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning8.htm

A switchyard has earthing conductors that run underground that reduce
such effects. That's why it's the safest place to be.

Dorfus

Dorfus Dippintush said:

dvt said:

Dorfus Dippintush said:

The safest place is under large power lines. you are protected in a
30 degree zone under the power line. The safest place is in a
switchyard.

From http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/decision_tree_people.html:

"*Unsafe* places are near metal or water; under trees; on hills; near
electrical/electronics equipment."

If lightning strikes a tree/tower/whatever near you, the potential of
the earth at the base of the tower rises. The potential decreases as
you get further away from the base. So if you have two feet on the
ground, and one foot is farther from the tower's base than the other
foot, you have a potential difference between your feet. Now
electricity tries to go through you (up one leg, down the other).
That's a bad thing.

A reference describing the same thing I just tried to describe:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning8.htm

A switchyard has earthing conductors that run underground that reduce
such effects. That's why it's the safest place to be.

I can believe that a switchyard has a good grounding system. I don't
have first-hand experience, but it seems plausible. But that doesn't fix
your first sentence: "The safest place is under large power lines." I
think that's bad advice.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)